Alberta Separation from Canada

[huntinstuff]

Well, in the wake of being shut out of the halls of power because most of us voted for the only political party that supported our province's oil and gas industry, it seems the winds of a WEXIT are blowing strong.

Is this just a pipe dream with too many obstacles to possibly overcome or could it be a real possibility?

Love to hear what you think.

Personally I don’t believe it can happen. Most guys cant even figure out the draw system, let alone self government

But, I could be wrong. Let’s hear what you think. Is it feasible?

[jstubbs]

Not feasible and nonsensical but I do think the noise and dissatisfaction it represents is a good thing.

[GENINC]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Not feasible and nonsensical but I do think the noise and dissatisfaction it represents is a good thing.

Ditto

[huntsfurfish]

Never gonna happen.

[wwbirds]

I think that would be pretty good motivation to set up an Alberta tax system with no payments to Ottawa or the other provinces.
do I think it will happen no not likely but can we use it as leverage like a certain other province that has been the recipient of said transfer payments since 1971. Yes lets do it!

[huntwat]

Is it possible? Yes. Is it going to happen? Most likely not. It would be the best for us westerners though. I would rather give B.C. equalization if we could get a pipeline west. We would easily be self sufficient. Here's to hoping.

[AndrewM]

I am worried it is going to cause another vote split and bring the NDP back into power in AB. I was a member of the group on facebook but there is no leadership and they were cutting down all posting to avoid the group being deleted. Kick Quebec out of Canada. Problem solved!

[sns2]

I would be all for it. The last four years have made it hard for me to feel truly Canadian, as the rest of Canada seemingly uses us like arse wipe - utterly disposable. I self-identify as Albertan, and am even considering not standing for the anthem. They ain't my words, and I no longer feel like part of this country if I am being transparent.

Let's see if Kenney has the privates to hold the referendum he campaigned on. Albertans need an outlet to show the rest of the provinces that cash our cheques that we have had it utterly and completely.

If Quebec can get a better deal out of this type of exercise, so can we.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Not feasible and nonsensical but I do think the noise and dissatisfaction it represents is a good thing.

Nothing to stop us from taking a more independent course and flexing our muscles, when we can , Just as Quebec does. We've had dissatisfaction since before Alberta became a province and it hasn't been addressed.

Grizz

[Glion]

Can it happen? Yes. Will it? Highly doubt it but wish for it, would love me some small government

[angler1]

Agreed, in favor. Seems to have worked for Quebec.

[Ken07AOVette]

Pipe dream.
More to the point wet dream, whereas only the greasy ex-politicians will profit from speaking engagements and fund raisers.
Then the wet part will be tears running down faces when they find out they have been fleeced.
People are selling untold numbers of hats and stickers telling sparkly socks to 'leave', so classy taking advantage of sad and desperate people. It annoys me to no end.

[Zip-in-Z]

Yack all you want here.... it will never happen.

D.

[HunterDave]

It won't happen overnight but I think that it is feasible provided BC was on board with it. IMO our provincial governments should be working towards it happening and start getting our ducks in a row. The ideology of the East, who control who gets elected, is far different from us in the West. It's like trying to mix oil and vinegar to find a consensus on many matters, especially oil.

Alberta will always get walked on as long as we have a PM that wants to "phase out" O&G and if the East insists on re-electing that type of government then I would say Yes, the West would be better off leaving confederation. Not overnight mind you, but at least work towards that goal in the future.

[CaberTosser]

Its highly unlikely but its an interesting mental exercise. Some of the main things have been considered but its the thousands of little details that make it a huge pile of work. Some supporters are thinking its about as difficult as selling a house.

A new nation would need currency. Perhaps that's easy considering where the Royal Canadian Mint is located in Winnipeg but it still needs to be designed, printed, distributed and most importantly, given a value in the international currency market.

Then think of the drudgery of all the land titles and various legal details. Oh, we'd need a set of laws drafted, both civil and criminal. I'd kind of like a new criminal code and no more young offenders act, no more Gladue considerations, no more double time allotted for pre-trial custody. But stop and consider that we'd need to re-certify lawyers and appoint judges first, current judges might not make the cut.

Imagine how many new border crossings we'd have to build and staff at every road connecting to 'Canada Classic'.

For prisoners currently incarcerated do we release them into "Canada Classic" or keep them in jail and review all of their sentences under the newly established laws?

Death penalty? Retroactive for existing convicted murderers, rapists and pedophiles?

What of our current CPP contributions?

The devil is in the details, and there's decades of details accrued.

If your mortgage is with a bank based out east it might be worth the effort though

[Masterchief]

I don't think it would happen, nor would it be good for Alberta to separate, but I think the stink and fear it raises could give us some more power, much like Quebec has done for decades. The squeaky wheel gets the grease

[bat119]

It's like open carry something to wish and talk about, never going to happen.

I also support the right for pigs to fly

[Rancid Crabtree]

In a referendum I'll vote yes to separate.

But a much better path is for Ab and Sask to stage a tax revolt.
First end our contract with the RCMP, they work for Justin.
Set up provincial police, probably staffed by a lot of ex RCMP officers.

Institute a simpler tax system that pays to the provinces. Then the premiers lead the people in switching- don't pay federal tax, pay directly to the province and we will all ignore the Feds.
If several million people and businesses in the west stopped paying taxes Justin would be done in less than 6 months.
If they don't give in then we separate.

[SwampDonkey]

Most guys cant even figure out the draw system, let alone self government


Now that's funny right there, lol.

[Dean2]

It can be done, there are definitely complexities but nothing a few smart people cannot figure out how to do. Most of the Rhetoric you see in the media about how impossible it would be is strictly pandering to a centralist agenda, it does not reflect truthful reality. Some of you might find it interesting that since 1990 alone there have been 34 NEW countries created, some by separation, some by becoming independent from the colonial power ruling them etc. Short prece

Since the year 1990, 34 new countries have been created, many as a result of the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. and Yugoslavia in the early 1990s. Others became new countries as a result of anticolonial and independence movements, including Eritrea and East Timor.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Fifteen new countries became independent when the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.) dissolved in 1991. Most of these countries declared independence a few months before the Soviet Union officially collapsed:

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Russia
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

Former Yugoslavia
Yugoslavia dissolved in the early 1990s into five independent countries:

June 25, 1991: Croatia and Slovenia
September 8, 1991: Macedonia (officially The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) declared independence on this date, but wasn't recognized by the United Nations until 1993 and the United States and Russia until February of 1994.
February 29, 1992: Bosnia and Herzegovina
April 17, 1992: Serbia and Montenegro, also known as the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

Other New Countries
Thirteen other countries became independent through a variety of circumstances, including independence movements:

March 21, 1990: Namibia became independent of South Africa. Previously, Namibia was known as South West Africa when the latter was officially a German territory.
May 22, 1990: North and South Yemen merged to form a unified Yemen.
October 3, 1990: East Germany and West Germany merged to form a unified Germany after the fall of the Iron Curtain.
September 17, 1991: The Marshall Islands was part of the Trust Territory of Pacific Islands (administered by the United States) and gained independence as a former colony. On this date, Micronesia, previously known as the Caroline Islands, also became independent from the United States.
January 1, 1993: The Czech Republic and Slovakia became independent nations when Czechoslovakia dissolved. The peaceful separation was also known as the Velvet Divorce, after the Velvet Revolution which had led to the end of communist rule in Czechoslovakia.
May 25, 1993: Eritrea, which was part of Ethiopia, seceded and gained independence. The two nations later became involved in a violent war over disputed territory. A peace agreement was reached in 2018.
October 1, 1994: Palau was part of the Trust Territory of Pacific Islands (administered by the United States) and gained independence as a former colony.
May 20, 2002: East Timor (Timor-Leste) declared independence from Portugal in 1975 but did not become independent from Indonesia until 2002.
June 3, 2006: Montenegro was part of Serbia and Montenegro (also known as Yugoslavia) but gained independence after a referendum. Two days later, Serbia became its own entity after Montenegro split.
February 17, 2008: Kosovo unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. The representatives of the Kosovo people unanimously agreed that the country would be independent of​ Serbia despite the objections of eleven representatives of the Serbian minority.
July 9, 2011: South Sudan peacefully seceded from Sudan following a January 2011 referendum. Sudan had been the site of two civil wars, and the referendum received near unanimous approval.

So tell me again how an area like Alberta, Saskatchewan and Western B.C./, with a highly educated population, huge natural resources and well developed economies could not accomplish what Namibia and Serbia managed to do.

[35 whelen]

Pipe dream it'll never happen

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[CasterBlaster]

It'll never happen. Nor should it, I hate the Laurentian elites, the eastern vote and the fact the GTA can actually decide who wins or loses in an election as we just saw. Leaving Canada? How? We'd have to depart with our share of the national debt, what happens to the billions in federal infrastructure in the province? CFB Edmonton, CFB Wainwright, CFB Suffield? What happens to those thousands and thousands of soldiers and the families and the bases themselves? How would the province be able to respond to natural disasters? Currency? Passports? etc etc I could go on for paragraphs. This is the sort of antics Quebec tries, the separatists rear up every so often and stamp their feet and threaten to leave until common sense kicks in.

I think a much more viable solution is a balancing out of federal seats so that the west has more say. Something inherently wrong with there being more federal seats in the GTA than in the entirety of Alberta. A city and it's boroughs can decide the fate of the country? Same goes for PQ, 78 seats compared to our paltry 34. An MP in PQ has an average of 106,000 constituents, an MP in Alberta has on average 134,000 constituents. 28,000 souls in difference. Balance it out, dont create more ridings, redistribute them accordingly to population. We'd then be far better off than separating.

[JohninAB]

Wexit to me is the west’s version of the Bloc Québécois. A federal party, based in western Canada whose goal is to represent western Canada first and foremost just like what the Bloc does for Quebec. Premise is, elect say 50 plus Wexit MP’s and they would have some serious clout in parliament like the Bloc has now with the minority Liberal government which needs support to be propped up. Liberals do a budget the Bloc does not like, they pull their support and Liberals face a non-confidence vote. Also sets the tone that the west is not going to be treated like doormats anymore.

With out a change in the formula used to determine equalization payments, the chance of it changing is nil to non-existent. Alberta would have to withhold sending Ottawa the federal share of the income taxes collected which would mean federal transfer payments to Alberta (health care etc) would stop. Would the transfer payments equal $20 billion, no so be a net gain for Alberta.

Saskatchewan for example gets no equalization payments but I would hazard a guess that what they receive in transfer payments would be fairly close to what the federal government collects in federal income tax from Saskatchewan residents.

I like the idea of a western Canada party. Will we ever see the west separate, not in my lifetime.

[zabbo]

Flat out separation would probably be very difficult. Currency, passports, zero international recognition, military, police,indigenous issues and on and on. Now, a distinct nation within a nation? The ground work has already been laid. All we have to do is connect the dots. You won't find a redneck, cowboy, oilman like an Albertan anywhere but Alberta! That's distinct!

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by sns2

I would be all for it. The last four years have made it hard for me to feel truly Canadian, as the rest of Canada seemingly uses us like arse wipe - utterly disposable. I self-identify as Albertan, and am even considering not standing for the anthem. They ain't my words, and I no longer feel like part of this country if I am being transparent.

Let's see if Kenney has the privates to hold the referendum he campaigned on. Albertans need an outlet to show the rest of the provinces that cash our cheques that we have had it utterly and completely.

If Quebec can get a better deal out of this type of exercise, so can we.

X2

[bobtodrick]

Of course it can be done. In 1900 there were 77 countries in the world...now 195. It has been done many times before where a country is split into two or more.
Will it happen...I doubt it.

[Talking moose]

Yes it can be done. Will it happen? Not at this point. We aren’t there yet. When we get to that point you’ll know. See what happens here in the west over the next couple years.....

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Of course it can be done. In 1900 there were 77 countries in the world...now 195. It has been done many times before where a country is split into two or more.

Exactly. Not sure why so many people think it can't happen. It's relatively rare in NA, but there have been dozen of border changes in Europe alone since 1960.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by sns2

I would be all for it. The last four years have made it hard for me to feel truly Canadian, as the rest of Canada seemingly uses us like arse wipe - utterly disposable. I self-identify as Albertan, and am even considering not standing for the anthem. They ain't my words, and I no longer feel like part of this country if I am being transparent.

Let's see if Kenney has the privates to hold the referendum he campaigned on. Albertans need an outlet to show the rest of the provinces that cash our cheques that we have had it utterly and completely.

If Quebec can get a better deal out of this type of exercise, so can we.

I've heard Kenney is giving Sparkle Socks two years to reverse bill C69 and C48 and to get TMX in the ground, before he sets a referendum. 2 years is far to long to reverse or omit bill C69 and C48. I'd set a deadline on that for February 1, 2020. Get rid of bill C69 C48 or we're having a referendum on April 1, 2020. I'd give Sparkle 6 months to show us serious pipe in the ground TMX underway.

Why does Western Canada need a Central government? For the past 152 years what has any sitting parliament done for Western Canada? Nothing really other then demand transfer payments and a steady yearly increase in the said payments. Imagine what Alberta could do with the extra 20 Billion Dollars annually.

We need to set up an Alberta Tax and pension. Our own Alberta Police force. Design a constitution. Speak with our neighbours to the north, east, west. Listen to what they have to say.

Like mentioned there are many new countries and many much smaller then Alberta or Western Canada.

If a referendum were held with a clear question asking if I am in favour of Alberta separating from Canada, I will check the Yes box!

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[sns2]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I've heard Kenney is giving Sparkle Socks two years to reverse bill C69 and C48 and to get TMX in the ground, before he sets a referendum. 2 years is far to long to reverse or omit bill C69 and C48. I'd set a deadline on that for February 1, 2020. Get rid of bill C69 C48 or we're having a referendum on April 1, 2020. I'd give Sparkle 6 months to show us serious pipe in the ground TMX underway.

Why does Western Canada need a Central government? For the past 152 years what has any sitting parliament done for Western Canada? Nothing really other then demand transfer payments and a steady yearly increase in the said payments. Imagine what Alberta could do with the extra 20 Billion Dollars annually.

We need to set up an Alberta Tax and pension. Our own Alberta Police force. Design a constitution. Speak with our neighbours to the north, east, west. Listen to what they have to say.

Like mentioned there are many new countries and many much smaller then Alberta or Western Canada.

If a referendum were held with a clear question asking if I am in favour of Alberta separating from Canada, I will check the Yes box!

BW

BW

Agreed 1000%!