Alberta Separation from Canada

[NinjaHunter]

This issue wouldn't even be an issue if the whole of Alberta grabbed its balls for once and just walk away.

Just a quick vote of "let's leave Canada and we'll do our own thing"

From there it's simple to just make a new political infrastructure.
Just base it on the old system with minor tweaks here and there (like what the Americans did after their revolution).

It's just that nobody in Alberta hasn't felt enough economic, political, and social pain from the current situation.

[lmtada]

ALBERTA would be fine. Similar to Texas. However Alberta is better looking.

Quick face. Canada geographic area 9.9 million km2
Canada Population 37million
Canada GDP 1.6T

Texas geographic area 695,000 km2
Texas population 24 million
Texas GDP 1.6T

Texas has no Hollywood, facebook, google, twitter.

Every Canadian should hang their head in shame at the squandered wealth that slips through our hands daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVW1rOK2Nhw
**************************************

Texas is a pro business, pro-oil, on the coast, highly productive state that is part of a pro-business country.

Canada is a anti-business, anti-oil, liberal, ‘taxed until death’ nation that produces nothing but debt. All our great minds and companies eventually move to the US where it’s easier to do business.

I weep for the future of Canada.

[IronNoggin]

“We have to speak truth to power. The fact is we are losing tens of billions of dollars of national wealth right now by our inability to deal with those problems in Western Canada.”

There have been repeated warnings recently about Western alienation amid frustration in oil-rich provinces as Canada struggles to add new export pipeline capacity. The regional divide was illustrated in last month’s federal election when the Liberal Party was re-elected without any seats in Alberta or Saskatchewan.

“We’re talking about a massive transfer of wealth from the pocket of Canadians to the United States of America,” McKenna said. “And right now, Alberta is the canary in the coal mine on this, and we need to listen to them.”

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/more-nat...enna-1.1343268

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

years ago I wouldn’t of considered it at all but we have now been divided by the Government and the people. Let’s join the states so I can pack a 45 in my crotch and buy my beer from 7/11. The last part was a joke but seriously speaking it would be nice to pack a sweet 45/70 BFR in the bush.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^

years ago I wouldn’t of considered it at all but we have now been divided by the Government and the people. Let’s join the states so I can pack a 45 in my crotch and buy my beer from 7/11. The last part was a joke but seriously speaking it would be nice to pack a sweet 45/70 BFR in the bush.

U.S Constitution the best document on Earth. And they still have amendments.
A society still trying to improve, still trying to make everyone equal. They don't always get it right, but they get the concept. Not happening here, never has, never will!

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by roper1

U.S Constitution the best document on Earth. And they still have amendments.
A society still trying to improve, still trying to make everyone equal. They don't always get it right, but they get the concept. Not happening here, never has, never will!

This will happen here when the Alberta leads the charge in the movement to separate

BW

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

This will happen here when the Alberta leads the charge in the movement to separate

BW

I bet a guy $10,000 that sparkly socks would be in his high chair again.

I would bet $50,000 on Alberta never separating without breaking a sweat. I would already start looking into how to turn my free $50,000 into $100,000.

[IronNoggin]

Trudeau ramps up his Kiss Alberta Goodbye strategy

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...odbye-strategy

[IronNoggin]

If Alberta turns separatist, the Rest of Canada is in big trouble
Holding all the power now, Albertans would get richer while the balance of the country would get poorer

Canadians don’t value our fossil fuel economy, which explains why so many are OK to trash pipelines and see Alberta tank. Only 19 per cent think it more important to pursue oil and gas development than to go green and regulate oil, according to EKOS polling. That 19 per cent figure shrinks to eight per cent for Canadians who consider themselves Liberals, six per cent for NDPers and two per cent for those who vote Green, meaning that politicians of most stripes have no interest in alienating their supporters to help Alberta’s energy economy recover.

Those figures also explain why Alberta’s sense of alienation is on the rise. According to Ipsos, fully 62 per cent believe Alberta “does not get its fair share from Confederation” (up from 45 per cent two decades ago), 46 per cent feel more attached to their province than to their country (up from 39 per cent) and 34 per cent “feel less committed to Canada than I did a few years ago” (up from 22 per cent). Just 18 per cent of Albertans believe “the views of western Canadians are adequately represented in Ottawa.”

One-quarter of Albertans now believe Alberta “would be better off if it separated from Canada,” a number that may well rise if the provincial economy founders, and would certainly rise if Albertans realized that they need Canada a lot less than Canada needs them. Without Alberta’s wealth and foreign-exchange earnings, the living standard of Canadians outside Alberta would drop and the Canadian dollar would plummet, likely leading to inflation as the cost of imports rose. Albertans, in contrast, would see their affluence rise and, because oil sales are denominated in U.S. dollars, Alberta would be largely insulated from the inflation to its east and west.

Those pooh-poohing independence claim Alberta, being land-locked, would be held hostage if it were an independent state. Those scoffers have it backwards. Alberta is today held hostage, its pipelines east and west kiboshed by its fellow Canadians. If Alberta were independent, its newfound bargaining power would certainly cause the Rest of Canada to capitulate, and speed to completion any and all pipelines Alberta needed to either ocean.

An independent Alberta would control access to its land mass as well as the skies above it, requiring Canada’s federal government to negotiate rights for, say, Vancouver-to-Toronto flights over Alberta airspace. Canada would also need Alberta’s agreement to have trains and trucks cross its now-international borders. Threats of tolls and tariffs could abound as needed to chasten those perceived to be wronging Alberta, whether Quebec, which exports dairy to B.C., grain interests that now commandeer rail to the detriment of Alberta’s oil shippers, or the B.C. ports that depend on commodities going to and from points east. Anyone thinking that Alberta would be unable to police its borders needs to be reminded that, for the past 70 years, Alberta’s patrols have made it the continent’s only rat-free jurisdiction.

The Rest of Canada has other reasons to avoid pushing Albertans to the point of separation. Should Alberta become a credible threat to leave the Canadian federation, the debate would likely embolden Quebec separatists, make Canada seem unstable and scare off both domestic and international investment. Alberta would have the United States as a bargaining chip, too: Manifest Destiny, the U.S. dream of controlling the entire continent, would experience a revival at the prospect of welcoming Alberta as its 51st state, strengthening America’s influence over the world’s energy markets and, in particular, over a now energy-dependent Rest of Canada.

While history suggests Alberta would almost surely be better off outside Canada — Singapore, Norway, Taiwan, the Czech Republic and other breakaways have generally thrived — divorce would be messy, costly in the short term and unnecessary. The Supreme Court of Canada made separation plausible — separation negotiations would start as soon as a clear majority of Albertans in a clearly stated referendum voted to leave Canada. It wouldn’t take too many more blows to Alberta’s economy and Albertans’ pride for the 46 per cent who now see themselves more as Albertans than Canadians to become 56 per cent or even 66 per cent, figures setting Canada on a path to dismemberment.

The last time Alberta was pushed toward the brink, it argued that “the West wants in.” The next time it might argue that “Alberta wants out.” The Rest of Canada needs to understand it has no hand to play if it continues to fuel Albertans’ discontent. If we don’t come to have regard for the needs of Alberta, Alberta will come to have no regard for Canada.

https://business.financialpost.com/o...in-big-trouble

[Pathfinder76]

We are just creating another way to split the vote.

[IronNoggin]

BC enters the fray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnvptGuEDsQ

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by chuck

We are just creating another way to split the vote.

That is why the federal Conservatives will fight separation tooth and nail. They rely on the 34 safe seats here in AB, without which they have no prayer of ever forming government.

Separation will be an uphill battle, but a worthy goal.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I bet a guy $10,000 that sparkly socks would be in his high chair again.

I would bet $50,000 on Alberta never separating without breaking a sweat. I would already start looking into how to turn my free $50,000 into $100,000.

I agree. Alberta will never separate from Canada (good thing) but starting up its own pension plan would have the same desired effect. People in other provinces that voted Liberal would really start to get worried about their retirements and pressure Justin to do something to appease Albertans. That's really all anyone wants.....

[IronNoggin]

Western alienation and its independence cousin very real

Accept for a moment the Toronto media narrative, spun through the Laurentian echo chamber in Ottawa, that “RedNexit” is the latest protest from the hicks living “out” West, unhappy with the outcome of the federal election.

Some of the impetus for Western political separatism comes from a legitimate sense of alienation, wrapped in a visceral dislike for a prime minister who cavalierly disregards the Prairie resource economy, agriculture and extractive industries.

At the same time, Justin Trudeau makes it clear that he has no respect for the people whose hard work and taxes fund an equalization formula in need of change and even the national government’s Canada Pension Plan (CPP), which Quebec opted out of 50 years ago, that disproportionately taxes more youthful Prairie employees and their employers.

Ditto for an inefficient and costly carbon tax that harms families and businesses in Saskatchewan and Alberta more profoundly than others. Compounding Prairie alienation are Bills C-69 and C-48, passed into law, which deliberately create high completion risk, uncertainty and delay, and a disincentive for anyone to invest in energy projects.

And there is the Trudeau government’s wilful strategy, illustrated by pipeline cancellations and delays, to sacrifice oil and energy development on the altar of climate politics and the “new green” economy.

To be sure, some of the separatists — but far from all — are the same cranks who jump on the first floats in a grievance parade, or spend their time shadow boxing the globalists of the New World Order or hooking up with Max Bernier’s People’s Party of Canada.

But it would be a fatal mistake for Canada to dismiss a real and profound sense of alienation which goes deeper into the ranks of thoughtful policy-makers, premiers past and present, and community leaders — not yet separatists — who are simply fed up with a Canada that no longer works for us.

An Ipsos poll this week can be read as alienation and separatism being rungs on the same ladder. The statement “Canada is more divided than ever” finds agreement among 79 per cent of Albertans and 77 per cent of Saskatchewanians. On the view that it is better for our provinces to politically split away from Canada, 27 per cent of Saskatchewan people agree, as do 33 per cent in Alberta.

While some promote separatism, others of us who prefer Canada see an opportunity for a strong, purposeful and resilient Prairie pushback against policies from Ottawa that must change.

Some Western organization — perhaps the Buffalo Project, Canada West Foundation or other — should be prepared to convene a conference in the next 100 days to openly examine issues and canvas options available to Saskatchewan and Alberta.

In no particular order, review the equalization formula and re-examine some of the 2001 Alberta Agenda, or so-called “firewall” options, including opting out of CPP and establishing provincial pension plans; taking control from the federal government of all tax collection and immigration; resuming full provincial responsibility for health care policy; cancelling RCMP contract policing and creating a provincial police force — all of which have been done for decades by Quebec.

Also, a conference could invite political and legal academics, constitutional scholars and experts in international law to canvas other issues, including but not limited to: Canada’s Clarity Act; the constitutional issues underlying a unique or distinct relationship with the Prairie West within the federation; the domestic and international legal requirements for limited or full political independence should the relationship with Canada deteriorate; the scope of important consultations required to address or renegotiate pre-existing treaties and inherent treaty rights with Indigenous people; and post-secession access to markets and trade.

In addressing Prairie alienation, Trudeau knows what he has to do — or, more properly, stop doing. If he does not meaningfully address Western concerns it shouldn’t be said that all those unhappy people “out” West are going to any longer sit idle or silent.

We aren’t.

https://thestarphoenix.com/opinion/c...usin-very-real

[Map Maker]

Big speech from Jason Kenney today in red deer.

More @jkenney: Panel will consult on collecting our own taxes, creating our own Alberta Pension Plan, establishing our own provincial police, transfering tax points instead of federal cash transfers, provincial constitution and more. alberta.ca/release.cfm?xI…


Some of the ideas are great but I think he is trying to change everything, all at once.
Why don’t they talk about this when we have money?

[RandyBoBandy]

Roy Green show today, I believe he was chatting the IPSOS guy about separation stats after the last Federal election. K-BEC 22% want separation, AB/SASK 33%

[Big Red 250]

Take Manitoba with you.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by thumper

Forget the bluffing, the threats, the raging - just turn and walk away. Make it as quick and clean and unemotional as possible. Don't take the bait and respond to or debate issues, don't assign blame, don't enter into useless, delaying arguments, - simply nod, and keep walking away.

That's what you do with any serial abuser - with anyone that thinks that you're worthless, or a sucker, or can't hit back - you simply walk away.

You'll cry, you'll rage to ourselves, we'll wish things were as they once were, but the sooner we end this, the better - if not for ourselves, then for our kids.

My thoughts exactly. It's the only way.

They have the upper hand in any negotiations because they the political and military power. They own the courts.
They can pay for any number of Lawyers, researchers and stooges and any amount of propaganda.
They do have our tax dollars to work with.
And you can bank on them not playing fair and not being honest.

Like an abusive marriage partner they will promise anything and deliver nothing.

Best to just walk away as silently as possible.

[KegRiver]

Some say we should look to Quebec for our direction.

I say we should look to Quebec for what not to do. They are still part of Canada and they are part of the problem and always have been.

Not Quebeckers themselves but Quebec and Ontario Power brokers. Look how they have strung the people of Quebec along for all these years, offering tid bits here and there.

You have to keep in mind that Quebec has some political clout, we have none.
We won't even get tid bits. Just smoke and mirrors.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Red 250

Take Manitoba with you.

I hope so.

[CaberTosser]

Who will be writing the new national anthem? Can we just use an AC/DC tune? (sorry, no Nickleback, even if they are citizens )

[BLRBlackLabel]

Time to leave. At the very least, we should get our own pension plan. That would hopefully wake the east up a little bit as to how much Alberta over contributes to Canada’s overall finances. And it would show that we are serious, not just blowing off steam.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Who will be writing the new national anthem? Can we just use an AC/DC tune? (sorry, no Nickleback, even if they are citizens )

Given the season we've had I nominate Gord Lund. The song has already been written.

[pikeman06]

I like how our new premier is trying his best to clean up the mess left behind by the n.d.p. I like the idea of the alberta pension separate from Canada's. Taxing the out of province canadian workers that just come here to work then go home and jump on the liberal bandwagon is another peeve of mine...Couldn't believe the total lack of support from the east coast for conservatives. I don't know what Trudeau does for them besides take money from alberta and hand it out as welfare. Sad state of affairs here for us native albertans and I hope the men in the hiring positions are favoring the people that live here and support the ideas and goals of our government and contribute to our local faltering economy. Not those who just come here for a quick buck. They all say there's no good paying jobs at home but have no disire to live here...well maybe then they should stay home or pay some more tax. Put that money in a fund for homeless out of work oil patch workers who have been taxed to death and worked their bags off.

[IronNoggin]

Kenney announces 'firewall'-style panel in pursuit of a 'fair deal' for Alberta

We've had it with Ottawa's indifference to this adversity. Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long, it's time for Ottawa to start working for us'

Red Deer, Alta. — Alberta Premier Jason Kenney outlined on Saturday the mandate for a new panel that will study what the province should demand as a “fair deal for Alberta” in Confederation, including looking at ways that will take back provincial powers that have been ceded to Ottawa.

At a speech Saturday afternoon in Red Deer, Kenney said the panel would answer questions including whether or not Alberta should pull out of the Canada Pension Plan and form its own plan instead, create a provincial police force instead of relying on the RCMP for rural policing, and opt out of some cost-sharing programs with the federal government.
As well, Kenney said the province will seek to retroactively lift the cap on fiscal stabilization back to 2014-15 to receive a $1.75-billion equalization rebate. Alberta has continued to be a net contributor to equalization despite enduring tougher economic times than other provinces over the last five years, but the province has said the cap has left it unable to claim meaningful fiscal stabilization funds.

“We’ve had it with Ottawa’s indifference to this adversity. Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long, it’s time for Ottawa to start working for us,” Kenney declared in his speech to the Alberta Manning Networking Conference. “We Albertans will not lose our heads, we are practical people, we are not unreasonable people. Nothing we are asking for is unreasonable.”

The speech — which Kenney said he was up all night writing in the premier’s office — drew heavily on longstanding conservative ideas for strengthening Alberta’s position within Confederation. Some of them were detailed years ago in the Alberta Agenda, informally known as the “firewall letter,” published in the National Post in 2001 and written by Stephen Harper (before he went on to become a federal party leader), then academic and future Alberta cabinet minister Ted Morton, and other Alberta conservative luminaries.

Kenney was giving the keynote address at the Saturday conference, which was themed “What Next?” and was put on by the Manning Centre for Building Democracy. Right-wing politicians, activists and thinkers had gathered at the conference to map out whether a road to victory for conservatism exists in Canada, after the recent federal election, or whether an increasingly alienated west needs to consider other options. Separatism sentiment in Alberta and Saskatchewan has been growing louder since the Liberals were able to hang on to a minority government in Ottawa.

Kenney took the stage to loud applause in Red Deer behind a lectern emblazoned with the slogan “A Fair Deal Now,” with Canada and Alberta flags beside him.

Central to Kenney’s pitch as leader of the United Conservative Party and as premier of Alberta has been drawing from Quebec’s playbook to get more power provincially, wresting it away from Ottawa.

In his speech, Kenney went through the troubled times in Alberta, arguing the major economic crisis in Alberta right now can’t simply be blamed on lower oil prices, or shale booms in North Dakota or other global factors. Rather, he lambasted the Liberal government’s “record of assaults” on Alberta, such as through over-regulation and its ambivalence about the province’s oil and gas economy, which have driven investment out of the province, seeking more hospitable jurisdictions such as the U.S.

“It’s not about prices, it’s about policy,” Kenney declared.

He pointed to the effect of the downturn on the people of the province: the exploding opioid crisis, rising crime and violence, rampant bankruptcies, and the increase in the rate of suicide as hopelessness spreads.
“The human cost of all of this is very real,” Kenney said. “This literally is for many people a life and death question.”

Kenney said Alberta is well on its way to becoming “the most responsible barrel of oil produced in the world.”
“We will be the most desirable last barrel available to global energy markets,” Kenney said.

Before launching in to his plans for determining Alberta’s “fair deal,” Kenney said he would not accept the prospect of separation, saying he’ll always be a federalist, even if Justin Trudeau’s minority Liberal government may be “dangerous to the federation.” The better alternative, he said, is “bold action that is urgently executed.”

“As premier it is my democratic duty to stand up for Alberta and as a proud Canadian it is my patriotic duty to stand up for national unity,” Kenney said. “All we’ve ever asked for is a fair deal, to enjoy the same autonomy rights and respect as all other provinces.”

The premier vowed to open offices in Ottawa, Quebec and British Columbia to “defend the province’s interests.” The government is also planning to mimic legislation in B.C. that allows for referendums on major issues. He said his government will continue to work on platform promises, such as fighting for equalization reform and, if necessary, a referendum on the subject. Kenney also listed off other promises: reviving senate elections, which had been discontinued under the previous government, an Alberta-run parole board and fighting for property rights to be added to the constitution, among others.

“We are going to be very bold in imagining every way that we can assert ourselves,” Kenney said.

Kenney said the panel considering the “fair deal” question was one made up of “eminent Albertans” — such as former Reform party leader, Preston Manning — although its work would not commit the Alberta government to any ideas, but rather put them on the table for study.

Kenney was not made available to reporters to answer questions after his speech.

Among the proposals to be considered is for Alberta to collect its own taxes within the province, rather than outsourcing the job to Ottawa, just as Quebec already does; a withdrawal from the CPP and instead create a provincially-run pension plan, as exists in Quebec; a provincial police force, such as Ontario and Quebec have; seeking Alberta’s involvement in international treaty negotiations on issues that affect the province; and adopting Quebec’s requirement that local bodies — school boards and municipalities — get approval from the province before “entering into agreements” with Ottawa.

The panel, which has a budget of $650,000, will also be looking at creating a provincial firearms office, study the possibility of opting out of federal-provincial cost-sharing programs — a news release cites a possible national pharmacare program as an example — and creating a provincial constitution.

The panel will consult with the public for other ideas.

Kenney added that any measures coming out of the panel that were up for serious consideration would still be subject to a provincial referendum. “I can assure Albertans that we would not make a decision … unless the majority of Albertans were to endorse those proposals in a fair and democratic referendum,” he said.

The panel will begin public consultations on November 16 and conclude Jan. 20, 2020, with the panel’s recommendations going to the government by the end of March.

“Many Albertans who indicate support for federalism are demanding significant reforms that will allow the province to develop its resources, and play a larger role in the federation,” Kenney wrote in a letter to the panel charging them with their mandate.
Kenney told the crowd in Red Deer that even as the “fair deal” project unfolds, the priorities remain rebuilding Alberta’s badly hurt economy and ensuring that the Trans Mountain pipeline is built, by standing up for the “rule of law.”
“All of Alberta’s leverage will be focused on this goal,” he said.

Kenney’s speech, more than an hour long, was as much about grievances against Ottawa as it was about championing Alberta’s ability to persevere and overcome the challenges put before it.

“In so many ways Alberta did become the brightest gem, at least within the Canadian crown,” said Kenney.
“We are the province of opportunity, we are the magnet of risk taker and doers, builders and dreamers,” said Kenney. “This is a province with a huge and vital future. We must believe in this province. We must draw upon our natural resilience, on our history of overcoming adversity, as we have in the past, we will do it again, working together for an Alberta that is strong and free because we know that a strong Alberta means a strong Canada and it means a strong future for the next generation.”

He received a standing ovation.

Members of Kenney’s new ‘fair deal’ panel

Preston Manning, founder of the Reform Party
Stephen Lougheed, former CEO of Alberta Innovates
Oryssia Lennie, former deputy minister of Western Economic Diversification Canada
Jason Goodstriker, former Alberta regional chief for the Assembly of First Nations
Donna Kennedy-Glans, former Calgary MLA
Moin Yahya, law professor, University of Alberta
Drew Barnes, Cypress-Medicine Hat MLA
Miranda Rosin, Banff-Kananaskis MLA
Tany Yao, Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo MLA

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...tax-collection

[IronNoggin]

Kenney's plan to get Alberta out from under Trudeau before he completely destroys it

Kenney’s workaround emulates Quebec’s near-sovereignty autonomy, aimed at escaping fed policies rigged to bribe Quebec with Alberta money

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s father rolled out the National Energy Program in 1980 — a punitive tax grab for Alberta’s oil revenues to pay for the Liberal welfare state. Years later, Justin Trudeau did a redo by discriminating against Alberta’s oil industry to pay for his welfare state, phoney climate agenda and Quebec goodies.

But again, the jig’s up and Alberta Premier Jason Kenney came out fighting this weekend and, as many of us have recommended, embarked on a “workaround” strategy to get out from under Trudeau and the Laurentian elites who still control Canada.

Instead of a national energy grab, this Trudeau has cloaked himself in green by attacking the oil industry without even addressing the real problem which is demand.

Kenney’s workaround emulates Quebec’s near-sovereignty autonomy as well as is aimed at getting out from under the equalization transfer system and other fed policies that are rigged to bribe Quebec with Alberta money.

“Quebec announced a $4 billion surplus after getting $13 billion in equalization transfer payments from Alberta,” said the agitated premier in a speech Saturday at the Manning Conference I attended in Red Deer.

For example, he said, Ottawa has overcharged Alberta $1.7 billion in transfer overpayments since 2015 — created after Ottawa made an unfair adjustment to benefit Quebec. He wants an immediate rebate and, frankly, if not paid within 30 days, then I believe Alberta should sue Ottawa, plus penalties and interest.

This is policy malpractice on a grand scale. Attacking Alberta’s oil industry — the fourth-largest in the world — harms the province, its industry, its people, and Canada. In the past five years, Alberta’s economy has shrunk, unemployment soared and incomes declined.

“Some say Alberta’s downturn is strictly about low oil prices, but during this past five years, there has been an unprecedented boom in North Dakota, Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma in terms of oil drilling and production. Tens of billions in capital has flowed there and people, expertise and equipment has gone there,” said the premier. “It’s not about prices. It’s about policy.”

He also pointed out, to those who claim that the world must wean itself from oil, that this is irrational. “The International Energy Agency says global demand for oil will increase from 100 million barrels per day to 110 million barrels a day by 2040. The same agency says that, even if there is full compliance with the Paris Treaty on climate, the demand by 2040 will be 80 million barrels per day,” he said. “And natural gas demand globally will double”.

Even loonier is Ottawa’s aim to destroy Alberta, the world’s “most responsible” producer, with low emissions from a democratic country with human rights. Canada’s oil industry is the envy of every country in the world and the 2019 election result is a damning indictment against the Liberals, NDP, Greens and Bloc Québécois as well as the two-thirds of Canadian voters who voted for them.

“In the past five years, Alberta’s net contribution to the rest of the country totalled $23 billion more than we got back in services,” said Kenney. “In the past 10 years, it has been $200 billion more, and since 1960 $600 billion more.”

A blue-ribbon panel will determine by March what steps should be taken to reverse the damage and get out from under Ottawa. Proposals mirror the Quebec playbook: reform or withdraw from the transfer system to benefit Alberta; withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, which Alberta heavily subsidizes; opt out of federal cost sharing programs like pharmacare and others; take over collection of all taxes like Quebec; and demand a say on all international treaties as Quebec has.

But immediately, Alberta wants the prime minister to scrap anti-resource and discriminatory Bills C-48 and C-69 which will destroy oil, gas, and mining industries, and complete the expansion of the TMX pipeline. If this Trudeau balks, then all bets are off.

https://business.financialpost.com/d...ly-destroys-it

[Rifle]

Take the northern 2/3 of BC and all of Alberta. Then you have no lower mainland bc hippies to deal with, and access to tidewater. As for those who say it's impossible, that we would need our own currency, border checks, police, tax structure etc: give your heads a shake. Yes, it would cost. But the cost would be worth it, as we'd have control over our tax dollars, and far more with no equalization. We could also scrap existing things that don't work, like Treaties, the Indian Act, the YCJA.

[jungleboy]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ebec-worse-off


Maxime Bernier warns alienated Albertans that threatening separation actually left Quebec worse off.

'You will likely find yourself in a very negative political dynamic. One based on failed attempts to blackmail Ottawa, internal divisions, and resentment against the rest of the country'


RED DEER, ALTA. — Maxime Bernier warned on Saturday that Alberta should not follow the example of Quebec in attempting to use separation as a threat to wrest more powers and money from the federal government. The strategy, he argued, has only led to more fractiousness and unhappiness in his home province of Quebec.

In a speech delivered in Red Deer, Alta. at a “Freedom Talk” conference about meeting the challenge of Alberta separatism, the leader of the People’s Party of Canada and former Conservative leadership contender told Albertans their first choice should always be to “fix Canada.”

“You will likely find yourself in a very negative political dynamic. One based on failed attempts to blackmail Ottawa, internal divisions, and resentment against the rest of the country,” Bernier said. “Just like in Quebec.”

The PPC leader — who lost his seat in Parliament in the October federal election — delivered a lunchtime address on the problems of Confederation and what is to be done about them. The problem, he believes, is one of distorted federalism, caused by overlarge government.

“It creates tensions and even more divisions,” Bernier declared.

STORY CONTINUES BELOW


Saturday’s speech was something of a return to form for Bernier, who broke away from the Conservatives last year, in that it was a paean to small government and libertarian identity, the same ideals he has said he thinks the Tories have abandoned.

You will likely find yourself in a very negative political dynamic. One based on failed attempts to blackmail Ottawa, internal divisions, and resentment against the rest of the country


Absent from Bernier’s speech Saturday were any mentions of his more controversial positions during the election, where he argued that Canada should not bother with a climate plan, that it should not accept so many immigrants, and should build a security fence at one popular illegal border crossing.

Bernier, a former Conservative cabinet minister, quit a year after losing that party’s leadership contest to Andrew Scheer in 2017. Bernier formed his own party in September 2018, premised upon a populist vision and tapping into hostility to immigration, while keeping some of his personal trademark policies, such as wanting to dismantle the agricultural supply-management system. Bernier’s new party, a little more than a year old at the time of the October election, didn’t win a single seat and received less than two per cent of the national popular vote.

On Saturday, Bernier said the rise of separatism as a phenomenon, in both Quebec and the West, can be linked directly to the expansion of the federal government, which intervened in provincial affairs and has favoured some regions over others.

He spoke at the same hotel in Red Deer where, a week before, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney had announced his plan to seek a better deal for Alberta in Confederation. Organizers estimated nearly 400 people were on hand for Bernier’s speech.

Bernier argued western separation, at least as a tactic to squeeze more benefits from Ottawa, is a “weak threat.”

“And if separatism failed to achieve much that was beneficial in Quebec despite a more credible threat, imagine what it will accomplish here,” he said.


Bernier argued western separation, at least as a tactic to squeeze more benefits from Ottawa, is a “weak threat.” Tyler Dawson
Rather, what Alberta and other provinces should push for is more provincial autonomy — a less centralized federation with a smaller national government. He said that, in retrospect, the approach of Quebec nationalists has proven to be a mistake.

“Quebecers who want more autonomy for Quebec should have allied with (other provinces) instead of making unrealistic demands on Ottawa and the rest of the country,” Bernier said.

In so doing, Bernier argued, there cannot be another western protest party like the old Reform party, which failed to make inroads with voters from Quebec and ultimately ended up subsumed by an establishment party, the Conservatives, under Stephen Harper.

“What we need to solve our unity problems and make our federation work better is a good manager of a smaller, much less intrusive and interventionist government,” Bernier said.

On that point, he took the opportunity to take a shot at Andrew Scheer, the Conservative leader, for failing to stick to more conservative principles.

“Scheer’s only program was to buy votes,” he said.

And, he said, small-c conservatives must reject the calls after losing the last election to be even less conservative, as if to emulate the Liberals. If they do that, Bernier warned, “you’re screwed.”

“We must stop compromising. We must keep defending our ideas. Even if it means we’re not mainstream enough in today’s political culture to form a government.”

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Rifle

Take the northern 2/3 of BC and all of Alberta. Then you have no lower mainland bc hippies to deal with, and access to tidewater. As for those who say it's impossible, that we would need our own currency, border checks, police, tax structure etc: give your heads a shake. Yes, it would cost. But the cost would be worth it, as we'd have control over our tax dollars, and far more with no equalization. We could also scrap existing things that don't work, like Treaties, the Indian Act, the YCJA.

When you give your head a shake do you hear the little ball rattling around?

If you say what you are saying real quick, those hundred words are nothing at all, spit them out like a watermelon seed, no trouble.

One tiny little issue you seem to have forgotten is the fact that the land is held by The Dominion of Canada, and while you can pack your suitcase and walk wherever you want today without hesitation, the governing powers are not going to give up their piggy bank because we are not happy.

Give your heads a shake. LOL

Have you wondered for more than a nanosecond what would happen when the Canadian Military is pulled? Your new utopia is completely unprotected. You do know that you do not own the land your house is on, right? You have a piece of paper called a DEED that allows you to pay tax to occupy your little square until you decide to pass the priveledge onto the next person who gets to pay tax to set a house there (building, wheat field, et-al) but when we are sitting with no protection at all, and lets say for example an invasion force comes North from a shared border you think they are going to let you keep 'your' house on 'their' land?

I would be more inclined to think we would be offered an opportunity to shop at wal-mart to buy a tent until we could afford to rent something from our new overlords.

The meat and potatoes of the arguement have been written many times already, a tiny portion of the difficulties and impossibilities of separation have been covered so I am not going to go through them again, but anyone with half a spray can full of grey matter knows that we are where we are, and that is the way it is going to be until something very drastic happens. WW3?

There are a thousand people far more educated and worldly wise than you and I talking openly and publicly about this very thing daily, and they agree that Canadian Separation will not happen. The wingnuts like the newly outted Wexit idiot (fired from RCMP, thrown out of Military) are doing nothing more than lining their pockets on the backs of scared mad desparate people.

Give your heads a shake indeed.

[Ken07AOVette]

Had another thought-

It could possibly happen, but would take something like a 500% tax hike.

If you want to keep your paid-for house in the Country of Balsaskman, you would have to borrow several times the value of it, to pay to for the so-easy mentioned items above.

Then if you have a job, instead of 40% taxes lets thnk 240%, where you have to get a loan from the bank at 50% per annum interest just for the honor of being able to say you are working. Also, remember, import and export permits do not happen overnight, all the major US chains would pull out immediately leaving us starving and without aid leaving us ready for take over.

All these simple things have to be paid for somehow.