HAMAS Attack on Israel

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

So basically there are direct calls for genocide (via blanket bombing and turning the place into a parking lot) and/or ethnic cleansing (via forceful deportation, with no destination in mind, in fact). We are supposedly somehow different though, even superior with our higher morals, right?

It's probably lost on almost everyone in this thread that the "Jewish Question" was debated in Europe for centuries in just this same manner (send them "somewhere else", no plausible destination in mind, "Final Solution", etc.) and we all know where that led.

[gman1978]

I just watched the video of Hamas shooting innocent civilians at the music festival . There are no words to describe it.

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Its going to get really bad when the boots are on the ground in Gaza as this will be urban warfare like we hav'nt seen since afghanistan but this will be much worse.

Afghanistan?

The Battle of Bakhmut, in Ukraine this year, is the most intense urban combat to have occurred since the Second World War. At least 40k+ killed.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

So basically there are direct calls for genocide (via blanket bombing and turning the place into a parking lot) and/or ethnic cleansing (via forceful deportation, with no destination in mind, in fact). We are supposedly somehow different though, even superior with our higher morals, right?

WRONG. They were offered a peace more than a handful of times. They chose war every time. They were offered their own state. The rejected that too. They would not accept anything but the total destruction of Israel. GAME OVER!

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by roper1

You are way over thinking this. There is just no way even one Israeli knew this was coming. Think this over. Israel wants peace with their Arab neighbors, Saudi Arabia still the big Kahuna, the rest of the middle east dislikes Iran also.

Iran would easily dominate the Middle East without America buttressing the Saudis. Israel only has tentative peace with its Arab neighbours because Uncle Sam stands behind it. Israel is in big trouble without the US.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by shooter12

Maybe be send them to Russia?
Putin seems to like and supports them.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/10/11/7423662/

S12

I think this is a great idea! Siberia and Taiga can use some humans to populate the place. Lots of free land for them to roam freely! Let Putin deal with them!
I am going to talk to Benny Netanyahu - I’m sure he will send you a thank you note for such a great idea. And I’m not even been sarcastic!

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by KGB

WRONG. They were offered a peace more than a handful of times. They chose war every time. They were offered their own state. The rejected that too. They would not accept anything but the total destruction of Israel. GAME OVER!

But why would the Palestinians settle for but a fraction of the whole that they were in possession of only a short time before?

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Morals don't apply in Total War, never have.

Grizz

Perhaps. Except none of us here are at war. We are the ones who are supposed to be “morally superior” observers inserting some common sense and calling things what they are. Like terrorism, for example; horrible and unjustified acts of violence; massacre; and so on. Not call for even worse acts to be committed and cheering on.

Furthermore, if even half of what is suggested is to take place, it would be the dream come true for every antisemite and anti-Israel as a state out there. In addition, if it pushes (and it will, without a doubt) Saudis and Co away from Israel and towards Iran, for example, with whom they are making peace as it is, this would not be good for anyone and Israel in particular.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

Iran would easily dominate the Middle East without America buttressing the Saudis. Israel only has tentative peace with its Arab neighbours because Uncle Sam stands behind it. Israel is in big trouble without the US.

Tentative peace? I don’t think so pal. Do you know that UAE built a Holocaust museum? There are more people speaking Hebrew in Dubai now than Russian.the other countries are not too far behind. Qatar is still opposing the agreement. Even Saudies wanted on board. So what do we have left? Syria and Lebanon? Both are nothing without Iranian or Russian support.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

But why would the Palestinians settle for but a fraction of the whole that they were in possession of only a short time before?

Because it never belonged to them.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by KGB

WRONG. They were offered a peace more than a handful of times. They chose war every time. They were offered their own state. The rejected that too. They would not accept anything but the total destruction of Israel. GAME OVER!

Which part of my post is wrong? Since the factual statements are not, because that is exactly what some people are calling for, I would imagine it is our higher morals and superiority. Yes, that is likely wrong.

I am familiar with history. I should also note that my wife is Jewish and lived in Israel from 1984 to 2001, if I recall correctly. The debates at home are pretty heated. In-laws are visiting too.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Which part of my post is wrong? Since the factual statements are not, because that is exactly what some people are calling for, I would imagine it is our higher morals and superiority. Yes, that is likely wrong.

I am familiar with history. I should also note that my wife is Jewish and lived in Israel from 1984 to 2001, if I recall correctly. The debates at home are pretty heated. In-laws are visiting too.

Ok pal I now can feel for you, seriously! To have a Jewish wife is one thing but to have a Jewish mother in law…. That’s why I married a Russian girl, lol!

[KGB]

Originally Posted by KGB

Ok pal I now can feel for you, seriously! To have a Jewish wife is one thing but to have a Jewish mother in law…. That’s why I married a Russian girl, lol!

The one benefit of a Jewish mother in law- they know how to cook! If she is going to make a gefilte fish- you won’t find the better friend than me!

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by KGB

The one benefit of a Jewish mother in law- they know how to cook! If she is going to make a gefilte fish- you won’t find the better friend than me!

Count me out. To speak politely, not my favourite dish, lol. I’d rather eat matzah without water instead. And I can eat herring more often than an average guy, to a certain extent, and almost every other fish dishes. Not sure why, that one didn’t take.

Also, the father-in-law is the genetical culprit, so it’s not as bad. Or is it? The mother-in-law did the whole conversion thing, I was told, when they moved to Israel and is just as annoying as you would expect, or more so. Maybe it’s just the general mother-in-law thing.

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by KGB

Because it never belonged to them.

Of all the reasons to support Isreal and the Jewish people that idea is the weakest.

Could indigenous people come up to any of us non indigenous people today and say push off, this never belonged to you?

Palestinians have lived there much longer than Europeans have lived in N America.

Palestinians need to rid themselves of the evil that is militant Islam, and then hopefully a fair arrangement can be made with Israel.

But they have a claim to live there, to suggest otherwise is absurd.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by KGB

Because it never belonged to them.

Do you really believe this though? There are still people in Gaza (and other places) alive today who were displaced from where they lived on the current territory of Israel.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Of all the reasons to support Isreal and the Jewish people that idea is the weakest.

Could indigenous people come up to any of us non indigenous people today and say push off, this never belonged to you?

Palestinians have lived there much longer than Europeans have lived in N America.

Palestinians need to rid themselves of the evil that is militant Islam, and then hopefully a fair arrangement can be made with Israel.

But they have a claim to live there, to suggest otherwise is absurd.

Well, ruffy71, we actually can find an agreement in something!

I am kidding, of course, I am sure we agree on more things than otherwise.


You know, I would really hate it if my kids being my age 30-40 years from now, watching or reading the exact same news as we are now. The only one I am kidding here is probably myself though, as the current events indicate. And there is nothing I can do about it.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by KGB

I think this is a great idea! Siberia and Taiga can use some humans to populate the place. Lots of free land for them to roam freely! Let Putin deal with them!
I am going to talk to Benny Netanyahu - I’m sure he will send you a thank you note for such a great idea. And I’m not even been sarcastic!

It's a shame that Benny and Vova don't read AO forums.
The problem of the Middle East that was bothering everyone for the last couple of thousand years would be solved in a minute.

S12

[Pioneer2]

Am Yisrael Chai

[W921]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

So basically there are direct calls for genocide (via blanket bombing and turning the place into a parking lot) and/or ethnic cleansing (via forceful deportation, with no destination in mind, in fact). We are supposedly somehow different though, even superior with our higher morals, right?

I'm praying for both sides . Hatred will transform people basically into monsters.
Christians get killed visiting Christian sites over there that have no value to Palestinians Normally Israeli guards and always Israeli protection for Christians.
Our prisons in Canada are filled with people who can never be released who have committed lesser crimes than what Gaza pulled off a few days ago.
If I was living in Gaza and did not support Hamas I would have found a way out even if it meant a row boat and paddling west.
Live by the sword, you die by the sword I think is what they say?

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Perhaps. Except none of us here are at war. We are the ones who are supposed to be “morally superior” observers inserting some common sense and calling things what they are. Like terrorism, for example; horrible and unjustified acts of violence; massacre; and so on. Not call for even worse acts to be committed and cheering on.

Furthermore, if even half of what is suggested is to take place, it would be the dream come true for every antisemite and anti-Israel as a state out there. In addition, if it pushes (and it will, without a doubt) Saudis and Co away from Israel and towards Iran, for example, with whom they are making peace as it is, this would not be good for anyone and Israel in particular.

The Cold War expression was Better Dead than Red. Israel recognizes that they can't afford to lose, if the enemies object is your extinction, should you fight with one hand tied behind your back ? We have no right to make a judgement. If Israel were to lose, the political situation would not favor us either, I note the Russian RTL refers to Jihadist Hamas.

Grizz

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm praying for both sides . Hatred will transform people basically into monsters.
Christians get killed visiting Christian sites over there that have no value to Palestinians Normally Israeli guards and always Israeli protection for Christians.
Our prisons in Canada are filled with people who can never be released who have committed lesser crimes than what Gaza pulled off a few days ago.
If I was living in Gaza and did not support Hamas I would have found a way out even if it meant a row boat and paddling west.
Live by the sword, you die by the sword I think is what they say?

Someone I know asked for a short explanation of the problems in this region.

For me it came down to this.

Palestinians want to live in peace and the Israelis want to live in peace however the power holders in Gaza want all Jews dead. So if Israel backed off and allowed Hamas and Hezbollah free rein they would just build assets to eventually attack Israel or support attacks. At the same time, the harsh conditions gives a never ending supply of Hamas fighters and the cycle continues. Third parties have tried for years to fix this, however both sides are not looking for peace so a win/win solution has never been possible.

It is now ingrained in the culture and society and will never change so long as militants with links to anti Jewish doctrine still hold power and the residents enable them and not force them out.

Maybe I’m wrong. But it’s what I see happening.

[Grizzly Adams1]

From my Facebook feed. The Arab version.



Grizz

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Perhaps. Except none of us here are at war. We are the ones who are supposed to be “morally superior” observers inserting some common sense and calling things what they are. Like terrorism, for example; horrible and unjustified acts of violence; massacre; and so on. Not call for even worse acts to be committed and cheering on.

Furthermore, if even half of what is suggested is to take place, it would be the dream come true for every antisemite and anti-Israel as a state out there. In addition, if it pushes (and it will, without a doubt) Saudis and Co away from Israel and towards Iran, for example, with whom they are making peace as it is, this would not be good for anyone and Israel in particular.

Israel is fighting for it's very survival, they need to fight with everything they have, to either wipe out Hamas, or beat them down so badly, and put so much fear into them, that they never try this again., out of fear that the retaliation would be even worse next time. They can't hold back to try and spare the remaining people in Gaza.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Israel is fighting for it's very survival, they need to fight with everything they have, to either wipe out Hamas, or beat them down so badly, and put so much fear into them, that they never try this again., out of fear that the retaliation would be even worse next time. They can't hold back to try and spare the remaining people in Gaza.

Release the hostages and Israel will allow food and water. Otherwise too bad.

[Ballertrawler II]

Years ago I took some Israeli folks on a tour and we had some interesting discussions and I asked about why there was such hatred between Palestinians and himself and he stated how he thought they were the most crooked, thieving bunch of vermin he ever knew and how his brother was killed by them while at a stop light and he would like to see them all dead...

The thought went though my mind, I bet the Palestinians feel the same way and have probably had a similar circumstance that one realizes that the hatred runs so deep that peace will never be possible.

It made me glad to live in this country and the importance of treating everybody with dignity, respect and kindness.

When you think of the atrocities and innocents in the crossfire, on both sides it is really sad.

I remember a cartoon once that said, why do we kill, murder, rape, and torture our enemies and their familes.... "Because we fighting a religious war"

[W921]

Originally Posted by Ballertrawler II

Years ago I took some Israeli folks on a tour and we had some interesting discussions and I asked about why there was such hatred between Palestinians and himself and he stated how he thought they were the most crooked, thieving bunch of vermin he ever knew and how his brother was killed by them while at a stop light and he would like to see them all dead...

The thought went though my mind, I bet the Palestinians feel the same way and have probably had a similar circumstance that one realizes that the hatred runs so deep that peace will never be possible.

It made me glad to live in this country and the importance of treating everybody with dignity, respect and kindness.

When you think of the atrocities and innocents in the crossfire, on both sides it is really sad.

I remember a cartoon once that said, why do we kill, murder, rape, and torture our enemies and their familes.... "Because we fighting a religious war"

You will never beat,bomb,kill or terrorise people into submission. Having said that if we launched a nuke at Russia we can't then say now we are ready for peace and expect Russians not to retaliate with nuke headed our way.

[32-40win]

Here's one I ran across yesterday, ex- Indian Army Colonel, can look him up on YT, not a real fan of the Jihadi types or Muslim Brotherhood or Pakistan to say the least. It paints some different perspective on things, believe he is a Hindu, I've only watched one of his vids, but, there are plenty of Indians like him around. He supports Israel.

THE CHANAKYA DIALOGUES ENGLISH

[glen moa]

Just saying.
You don’t need two evil sides to have a war.

[W921]

So could this have been Iran,China using Hamas to destroy Saudi, Israeli peace deal?
Is this about getting away from American dollar as world currency?
Some say Chinese trying to make huge investment deal with Saudi Arabia and using Chinese currency to do it. Americans countered with condition of Israeli peace deal which is now in toilet because of current events.
Thoughts?