Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I don't see a solution in 10 pages. I would rather see better game management as a solution rather than managing hunters. But that is just my opinion.

Hunting in the province is a huge portion of the "game management" here. Maybe throw an idea out to express what you mean....what is your solution to the issues?

How can you have better game management without affecting or making changes to the hunting draws/regulations.

For starters they should have completely closed a few seasons in a row for populations to recover when we had bad winters....for everyone/every user group. Oh wait can't do that! that manages hunters and not game

LC

[bpk1982]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Once again, with a current draw price of $3 and change X 10 means it is still only ~$30 to put in for a Premium Species under potty mouths suggestion. If you cant afford $30 for a draw, you really can not afford to hunt. Not saying people with not a lot of $$ should not have the opportunity to hunt but really if you cant afford $30 for a draw you should not even be concidering going hunting as the fuel reqired alone will be 5 times more than the cost of the draw! Hunting is EXPENSIVE period!

If a draw app fee is really an issue there are all kinds of open seaason tags available for multiple species so its not like there are not still an enourmous amount of options!

You should be a financial advisor...lol...quit crying about raising prices...apply and wait your turn...you are no more entitled to a sheep tag then someone who works at McDonald's...seriously, trying to price people out is BS!

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I don't see a solution in 10 pages. I would rather see better game management as a solution rather than managing hunters. But that is just my opinion.

There is no one solution to the problem but there are multiple things that, over time, would help ease the never ending demand for recreational hunting.

How can you depend on forecasting/improving game management when in one winter you can lose 40% of your antelope herd, or have first nations harvest as many rams off the highway as were killed the entire season, or have CWD culls reduce an entire mule deer population by 50%?
Sorry you're not controlling the weather, the Indians or disease.
And then ignore the 200,000 new residents who show up in Alberta each year, for those who apply, also bring 2 other NR applicants along with them.

Your one liner, although it is just your opinion, is the typical all encompassing motherhood statement that has got us into this mess. But that is just my opinion.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

You should be a financial advisor...lol...quit crying about raising prices...apply and wait your turn...you are no more entitled to a sheep tag then someone who works at McDonald's...seriously, trying to price people out is BS!

Thinking a sheep is only worth under $60 is even Bigger BS!!!! Or a once in a lifetime goat tag, or buffalo tag or Under $40 for high priority trophy deer, elk antelope and moose tags! We have a great system but guys are so friggin cheap they want everything for nothing!!

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

You should be a financial advisor...lol...quit crying about raising prices...apply and wait your turn...you are no more entitled to a sheep tag then someone who works at McDonald's...seriously, trying to price people out is BS!

Not saying we should try to price people out, but really, if you cant afford a $30 app fee how are you going to hunt a buffalo up north, or pay the expense of a goat or sheep hunt if your drawn? All $30 will do is help eliminate the fringe that typically put in for every tag they can. It won't keep someone working at McDonalds out of the draw if that is what they really want to put in for.

I have no issue waiting my turn, I hunt general season only virtually every year and have no problem with it. If 100% of our sheep hunts were draw with 20+ year waits like the US, and I didn't want to wait i would just go with an outfitter in another province that had tags.

This isn't abou pushing anyone out its about making the system better for ALL

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Thinking a sheep is only worth under $60 is even Bigger BS!!!! Or a once in a lifetime goat tag, or buffalo tag or Under $40 for high priority trophy deer, elk antelope and moose tags! We have a great system but guys are so friggin cheap they want everything for nothing!!

X2

[recce43]

its to bad if you did raise the price you know the money would not go to mangement.. it would in up in general gov. fund

[Lefty-Canuck]

I think 100% of the funds from the wildlife certificate sales should go into conservation/enforcement. Also I think that a requirement to purchase a wildlife certificate prior to draws to be eligible to enter them is a good first step.....if you hunt you gotta buy it anyway, if you don't plan on hunting but want to enter draws then you gotta cough a little bit up...upfront.

LC

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I think 100% of the funds from the wildlife certificate sales should go into conservation/enforcement. Also I think that a requirement to purchase a wildlife certificate prior to draws to be eligible to enter them is a good first step.....if you hunt you gotta buy it anyway, if you don't plan on hunting but want to enter draws then you gotta cough a little bit up...upfront.

LC

Deffinatly would be one good step.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Not saying we should try to price people out, but really, if you cant afford a $30 app fee how are you going to hunt a buffalo up north, or pay the expense of a goat or sheep hunt if your drawn? All $30 will do is help eliminate the fringe that typically put in for every tag they can. It won't keep someone working at McDonalds out of the draw if that is what they really want to put in for.

I have no issue waiting my turn, I hunt general season only virtually every year and have no problem with it. If 100% of our sheep hunts were draw with 20+ year waits like the US, and I didn't want to wait i would just go with an outfitter in another province that had tags.

This isn't abou pushing anyone out its about making the system better for ALL

X2

[bpk1982]

Originally Posted by recce43

its to bad if you did raise the price you know the money would not go to mangement.. it would in up in general gov. fund

Agreed...the gov raises prices fast enough on their own, let's not volunteer to hand over our money...

[bloody arrow]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

I totally agree. Why take opprotunity away from the people that can't afford the increase in draw costs. It would also limit a lot of lower income families from entering their children for draws. Not to mention for many elderly hunters this is how they fill the freezer for the winter.

I don't post much on here, because looking from outside it seems that every post turns into a pi$$ing match, or is just hypocritical. This thread got under my skin though. Not long ago there was the debate about paid access for hunting. Most arguements were against it saying that it would take away opprotunities for many people that couldn't afford to pay to hunt. Now we are a few months later and fellow sportsmen are proposing to increase the costs of hunting which in turn will leave out the low income people. However now that it affects more people, not just landowners, everyone is all for it?? Seems like there are some personal agendas at work here.

This is crap!

X2

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

Agreed...the gov raises prices fast enough on their own, let's not volunteer to hand over our money...

Has any one stated volunteering to hand money over to the gov. To waste. Many posts have said if dollars ever were raised the additional funds should go into conservation and enforcement.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

X2

You say personal agendas are at work right? Well isn't some guys wanting hunting to be as cheap as possible a personal agenda?
Seems to me that's a worse agenda than guys wanting to up prices some and getting more money for conservation and eliminating fraudulent applications and mass applications for animals just because it's so cheap.

[recce43]

more money for conservation would be great but can you guarntee that would happen ? some people on here want to raise prices so high they can get people to quit hunting so they can get there tags sounds like they have there own agendas to me .. I think less tags would be a good idea or take away some of the general tag zones and make them draw only.. if its about conservation less tags mean better animals .. unless you are all going to just take trophy animals then that will effect breeding stock

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by recce43

more money for conservation would be great but can you guarntee that would happen ? some people on here want to raise prices so high they can get people to quit hunting so they can get there tags sounds like they have there own agendas to me .. I think less tags would be a good idea or take away some of the general tag zones and make them draw only.. if its about conservation less tags mean better animals .. unless you are all going to just take trophy animals then that will effect breeding stock

If the gov got additional $$ for conservation at least it would be auditable.

I don't think I have read a post on here yet with anyone saying, or implying that they want people to quit hunting. Quit the contrary, people are trying to increase opportunity! The message I have been getting is raise the price of application so people don't apply for every singe draw just because, thus opening up more tags for people who really want them. If the cost to apply was slightly higher I know I would limit what I apply for.

No one has ever said make hunting so expensive so that only rich people can do it.

[pikergolf]

Again about the money, there are people who wait patiently for a tag in a zone they live because they can't afford to travel all over the province. you guys have money and have had it so long you can't even put yourselves in the shoes of those that don't have what you have. A hunt can be put on pretty cheap by a knowledgeable guy in his own turf.

It's not all about trophies for everyone, and I believe if the idea of raising the cost of app's so severely went to the people and not just the "special" people it would not pass.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I don't see a solution in 10 pages. I would rather see better game management as a solution rather than managing hunters. But that is just my opinion.

Its been stated numerous times in this thread by myself and walking buffalo.

But some people management is required. Multiple win cards is a people problem .....unless you condone such behaviour? By not agreeing , even with just that idea, I'm starting to think that perhaps someone dabbles in that loop hole ?

[drake]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Again about the money, there are people who wait patiently for a tag in a zone they live because they can't afford to travel all over the province. you guys have money and have had it so long you can't even put yourselves in the shoes of those that don't have what you have. A hunt can be put on pretty cheap by a knowledgeable guy in his own turf.

It's not all about trophies for everyone, and I believe if the idea of raising the cost of app's so severely went to the people and not just the "special" people it would not pass.

Im guessing the people who hunt in the zone they live in are the minority......

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Again about the money, there are people who wait patiently for a tag in a zone they live because they can't afford to travel all over the province. you guys have money and have had it so long you can't even put yourselves in the shoes of those that don't have what you have. A hunt can be put on pretty cheap by a knowledgeable guy in his own turf.

It's not all about trophies for everyone, and I believe if the idea of raising the cost of app's so severely went to the people and not just the "special" people it would not pass.

I can't see how this would effect many people in that situation, general season tags are everywhere so no one is beng pushed out of hunting to start with. Potty mouth suggested increase in app fees would only make the cost ~$30 - $40 for a one in a life time tag, and half of that for deer species. I don't concider that a "severe cost". For a local draw app on a premium species at $40 thats less than a case of beer and 2 packs of smokes.

As for people that don't have what I have, I hunt with them, a lot of them, we share gear, split gas etc... to cut cost but $30 - $40 would never be a show stopper.

$30 to $40 for an app would prevent people from applying for one of evrything unless they really wanted to hunt it all, myself included, I would likly only put in for 2 maybe 3 things instead of the current 12 draws I do. The idea is to cut fringe applicants out of the draw that put in because the app is $3, not to target people without means.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Not saying we should try to price people out, but really, if you cant afford a $30 app fee how are you going to hunt a buffalo up north, or pay the expense of a goat or sheep hunt if your drawn? All $30 will do is help eliminate the fringe that typically put in for every tag they can. It won't keep someone working at McDonalds out of the draw if that is what they really want to put in for.

I have no issue waiting my turn, I hunt general season only virtually every year and have no problem with it. If 100% of our sheep hunts were draw with 20+ year waits like the US, and I didn't want to wait i would just go with an outfitter in another province that had tags.

This isn't abou pushing anyone out its about making the system better for ALL

x2!

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by drake

Im guessing the people who hunt in the zone they live in are the minority......

I doubt it, all the hunters in the province, a small minority is on this forum. We make the mistake of thinking the majority are represented here, they're not. I get people want more opportunity, but to assume we love hunting more than others because we diddle our time away on a forum is false. Lots of old timers out there still want a chance to hunt, lots would never dream of leaving there zone.

Our hunting heritage is slowly eroding, raising fees to keep people out will only accelerate that erosion. Sadly in Ab. I only see tough times ahead for hunters, hunters with money will help the problem along, till they're the only ones left. I suspect that will please them to no end.

[pikergolf]

$30 to $40 for an app would prevent people from applying for one of evrything unless they really wanted to hunt it all, myself included, I would likly only put in for 2 maybe 3 things instead of the current 12 draws I do. The idea is to cut fringe applicants out of the draw that put in because the app is $3, not to target people without means.

This just proves my point about money, most can only apply for a few it's all we can afford. Johnny Bigfellow on the other hand carries on like nothing happened, the division, money.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I know for myself I travel 2.5 hrs in exact opposite directions of where I live to hunt, I often wonder how much good land I drive by on my way to where I do hunt.

Often I make day trips....I leave my door at 4 am or sooner to travel to my spot for first light. I know I spent well over 2k in fuel costs alone last year to travel to and from my hunting areas.....so if you think for a moment I hunt mostly "in my back yard..." For me that is not the case.

My comments above in this thread like them or not are not selfish one bit but are how I feel the system as a whole could improve.....offer your suggestions and not just criticisms.....this is a discussion about making things better and with 10+ pages of cordial discussion.....do you have suggestions/ ideas to add?

LC

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Again about the money, there are people who wait patiently for a tag in a zone they live because they can't afford to travel all over the province. you guys have money and have had it so long you can't even put yourselves in the shoes of those that don't have what you have. A hunt can be put on pretty cheap by a knowledgeable guy in his own turf.

It's not all about trophies for everyone, and I believe if the idea of raising the cost of app's so severely went to the people and not just the "special" people it would not pass.

Yes there are a lot of people in such a position.
I have to say I like potty's sliding scale in regard to application fees. The people that cannot afford to travel all over the province and hunt locally, cannot afford to participate in many of the hunts offered in the draws. For the most part they will be applying for (on average) one or two deer draws and maybe antelope or sheep depending on where they live. Potty's scale would bring two deer draws to $24 and an antelope or sheep to $21 for a total of $45/year. That equates to about a third of a tank of fuel in a fellows truck. I don't know......is that really going to prevent them from hunting any more? Keep in mind that if you include everything involved in the cost of hunting (even on the cheap), it is cheaper to go to the store and buy some beef.

[sheepguide]

Local Huntets are easily the minority. How many sheep hunters are locals? How many goat hunters are locals? How many antelope hunters are locals? How many Buffalo hunters are locals? How many Prarie elk hunters are just locals? In most big demand draws the local people will for sure be non local hunters.
How many guys travel to hunt trophy mule deer? How many apply? Far more than there is local Hunters.
How many camp wainwright Huntets are locals? Not very many!

And lots of the locals in zones that do hunt get draw tags every year anyways with landowner tags.

It's easy in a province with most of its population in urban centers that a large portion of guys hunting are not going to be locals.

I lived and had land in 318 and 324 my whole life and the majority of guys I talked to out hunting or that hunted our land were far from local and far out numbered the locals.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Its been stated numerous times in this thread by myself and walking buffalo.

But some people management is required. Multiple win cards is a people problem .....unless you condone such behaviour? By not agreeing , even with just that idea, I'm starting to think that perhaps someone dabbles in that loop hole ?

Loop holes and exploitations of the draw system has occurred by many....no system is perfect but hopefully it can be minimized in the future and tighter controls put in place.....one person/one card is a good start.

Hopefully the days of one guy having 3 cards all with slightly different spellings of his name are coming to an end....

LC

[pottymouth]

If someone can't afford a $40 goat draw.....there's no way they could afford the hunt its self , driving, accross the province, time off work , equipment etc... we are involved in one of the most expensive sports on the planet.

If they hunt for meat does draws and general tags are plentiful especially in home wmu's

[Lefty-Canuck]

If you keep antlerless and supplemental tags reasonable then the guys who hunt to fill the freezer and truly for subsistence will still be able to at a reasonable cost....

LC

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I know for myself I travel 2.5 hrs in exact opposite directions of where I live to hunt, I often wonder how much good land I drive by on my way to where I do hunt.

Often I make day trips....I leave my door at 4 am or sooner to travel to my spot for first light. I know I spent well over 2k in fuel costs alone last year to travel to and from my hunting areas.....so if you think for a moment I hunt mostly "in my back yard..." For me that is not the case.

My comments above in this thread like them or not are not selfish one bit but are how I feel the system as a whole could improve.....offer your suggestions and not just criticisms.....this is a discussion about making things better and with 10+ pages of cordial discussion.....do you have suggestions/ ideas to add?

LC

You got me, no suggestions, sorry for the derail. I have been following the thread and like most of the suggestions brought forth. For me the idea of limiting the number of draws you put in for is a no brainer.