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06-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System
10 quick Idea's of the top of my head
They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!
1. Verify all WIN #s are valid people
Proof of passed hunters training certificate
Proof of Residency
Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)
2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)
3. Price increase for draw application
4. Deadline date to purchase draws .
Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and its priority points.
Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)
5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.
6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .
7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.
8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.
9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)
10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)
I also have a Trophy hunting draw system Ive thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.
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06-23-2013, 07:08 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
10 quick Idea's of the top of my head
They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!
1. Verify all WIN #s are valid people
Proof of passed hunters training certificate
Proof of Residency
Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)
2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)
3. Price increase for draw application
4. Deadline date to purchase draws .
Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and its priority points.
Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)
5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.
6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .
7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.
8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.
9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)
10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)
I also have a Trophy hunting draw system Ive thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.
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great idea Potty!!! ![Thinking 006](images/smilies/thinking-006.gif) number 10 is a good idea, the others have all been pretty much covered in a different thread....
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Last edited by hal53; 06-23-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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06-23-2013, 07:15 PM
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I actually agree with every point. Pm that other system. Only thing I would add is a slight price increase in draw applications and tags.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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06-23-2013, 07:20 PM
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As a suggestion, Even if Potty never asked for it.
For starters at least, instead of this becoming another debate thread, just post up your own ideas.
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06-23-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
I actually agree with every point. Pm that other system. Only thing I would add is a slight price increase in draw applications and tags.
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so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...
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Last edited by hal53; 06-23-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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06-23-2013, 07:25 PM
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Banned
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8 of them are pretty good. number 5 is only ok. I see that aimed largely at sheep. it is better than the status quo. number 10 is cheese. you actually said in the other thread you are against it too.....if you can only draw 3, then you better not apply for more than 3.
as for the trophy ideas...you have posted them before and it has been explained pretty well why it wont work. there is no control over harvest numbers on any given year. a few low numbers could blow up if everyone cashed in on the same year resulting on overharvest. as a trophy hunter, I like the concept, but in reality game management has to take precedent.
the only suggestion I have is to raise application fees on premium species. its the only way to eliminate the wife, the neighbour, the dog, and the kid down the street applying so old joe can sneak a mountain goat out of the Wilmore at 2 am and try to convince everyone the kid or the dog went hunting.
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06-23-2013, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...
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If you read in the other thread right from the beginning I said we needed higher fees not sure how you missed that. And potty said limit to DRAWING 3 tags not APPLYING for 3 like you said. Big difference.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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06-23-2013, 07:30 PM
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I am on board with most of the points but point 10 doesn't make a bunch if sense to me....I hunt all species in the province (or try to).....nice to focus on moose one year then elk then mule deer then sheep, etc. hard to pick only 3 to focus on....if someone gets 4 tags in a year and cannot hunt on all the tags, them they have lost the priority points anyhow and are back if the buss the following year....
It's a logistic nightmare to try and limit swine to only holding 3 draws tags if they are still able to apply for as many as they want.
Limit the nonresidents to applying for only 1 or 2....that makes sense.
LC
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06-23-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
If you read in the other thread right from the beginning I said we needed higher fees not sure how you missed that. And potty said limit to DRAWING 3 tags not APPLYING for 3 like you said. Big difference.
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okay sorry, I must have missed it, but being drawn for 3 and applying for 15 will do NOTHING to reduce the wait times, can you not see that?
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06-23-2013, 07:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Posts: 45,160
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As soon as you draw a tag, you are charged for that tag.
Quote:
Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)
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Who decides what is justified? People will try to abuse that clause, so I would not include it. If you are drawn, and you don't purchase your tag, the tag is redrawn again using the priority system, and your forfeit your priority.
If you fail to purchase tags a second time, in another year, you are suspended from using the draw system.
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06-23-2013, 07:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
okay sorry, I must have missed it, but being drawn for 3 and applying for 15 will do NOTHING to reduce the wait times, can you not see that?
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I honestly do not understand how limiting me and everyone else to 3 draws a year helps me draw faster. Honestly fill me in on what I can't figure out.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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06-23-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
As soon as you draw a tag, you are charged for that tag.
Who decides what is justified? People will try to abuse that clause, so I would not include it. If you are drawn, and you don't purchase your tag, the tag is redrawn again using the priority system, and your forfeit your priority.
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Agree. As sucky as it is it has to be otherwise it'll be abused.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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06-23-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
okay sorry, I must have missed it, but being drawn for 3 and applying for 15 will do NOTHING to reduce the wait times, can you not see that?
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It might because the other 12 draws a person may have put in for will now be available to others.
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06-23-2013, 07:38 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
I honestly do not understand how limiting me and everyone else to 3 draws a year helps me draw faster. Honestly fill me in on what I can't figure out.
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sigh... it won't in the short term, but it will eventually get rid of the backlog, hence the idea about no 999'ing after 2 or maybe 3 consecutive years?...it will be short term pain, for long term gain. Fairly easy to see...then people like you would not have to shotgun apply for a species in a zone that you will likely never hunt, just to "build priority", that is what is wrong with the system right now....
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06-23-2013, 07:39 PM
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Point 6 is a good one.
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06-23-2013, 07:41 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck Country
Point 6 is a good one.
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yup agreed, it was discussed on another thread....
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06-23-2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
sigh... it won't in the short term, but it will eventually get rid of the backlog, hence the idea about no 999'ing after 2 or maybe 3 consecutive years?...it will be short term pain, for long term gain. Fairly easy to see...then people like you would not have to shotgun apply for a species in a zone that you will likely never hunt, just to "build priority", that is what is wrong with the system right now....
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People like me! Cause we've met and you know exactly where and how I hunt. Wow and here I thought you actually had some advice to give being old and all. Every single draw I put in for I have either hunted the area already or scouted it or have very good contacts willing to go with me. Guess that's shotgunning then...
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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06-23-2013, 07:56 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
People like me! Cause we've met and you know exactly where and how I hunt. Wow and here I thought you actually had some advice to give being old and all. Every single draw I put in for I have either hunted the area already or scouted it or have very good contacts willing to go with me. Guess that's shotgunning then...
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I am just sayin', everyone may have to give up a bit for a couple years to get things back in order, The antiquated draw system we are dealing with hasn't changed since it's inception. Times change we have to as well. FWIW, it really means nothing to me, my best hunting days are long behind me, but I have an 8 year old grandson, who if he could started applying now, would not get a draw in this province for some species in his life time, you see anything wrong with that??? but go ahead and keep building your priority...just in case??? that is where the problem is...or, am I totally missing something here?
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06-23-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
I am on board with most of the points but point 10 doesn't make a bunch if sense to me....I hunt all species in the province (or try to).....nice to focus on moose one year then elk then mule deer then sheep, etc. hard to pick only 3 to focus on....if someone gets 4 tags in a year and cannot hunt on all the tags, them they have lost the priority points anyhow and are back if the buss the following year....
It's a logistic nightmare to try and limit swine to only holding 3 draws tags if they are still able to apply for as many as they want.
Limit the nonresidents to applying for only 1 or 2....that makes sense.
LC
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Lol swine....damn autocorrect!
LC
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06-23-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Lol swine....damn autocorrect!
LC
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that's was a typo?!? I thought you were referring to me and my 5 draw tags this year.....
do I get a carry over since I drew nothing last year? that should mean 6 is acceptable this year then right?
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06-23-2013, 08:07 PM
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I'm pretty good with all the points mentioned and could live with them.
I'd also like to see the 999 program dropped completely. Proiprities should be put on what you can hunt. You could skip a year and not lose points but not just apply to get points.
I know lots like to bank point and plan hunts but it's tough as to many people get high point numbers and we are right back here.
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06-23-2013, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Lol swine....damn autocorrect!
LC
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so..I thought we had somewhat corrected the thoughts that NR's were taking too many tags???. The problem still is, I believe, that too many residents, and pseudo-residents are applying for way too many draws, hence piling up the system. |If you apply for 15 draws and get them, there is no way on earth you can hunt them all, unless you just won Lotto-whatever it's called, so do you see where applying and 999 is bunching it up??
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06-23-2013, 08:13 PM
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"6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports ."
I would add that any species that residents have to draw for would not be available to Non-residents.
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06-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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Ok, forget my suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
10 quick Idea's of the top of my head
They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!
1. Verify all WIN #s are valid people
Proof of passed hunters training certificate
Proof of Residency
Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)
2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)
You mean 1 year wait for Resident status.
And include a provision requiring the person to have spent 6months of the year in Alberta.
3. Price increase for draw application
4. Deadline date to purchase draws .
Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and its priority points.
Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)
Payments gets complicated and expensve to run. CC# with application and charged upon successful draw. There can be a return option available for those that know they will not use the tag.
5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.
Change 1 licence to 10% of licences on lottery for All draws.
While this is better than present, I think we will still need some other system in order to deal with the problem of high demand.
6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .
I disagree with this completely.
A separate NR draw pool makes these licences Unavailable to residents. Other jurisdictions have gone through this and know better.
By keeping the NR (with a %cap) in the same pool as residents, residents have the potential to draw 100% of the licences while still giving NR the opportunity to draw up to the set cap.
7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.
Sure, the info can only help inform future decisions.
8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.
Unless Outfitters have the same restrictions, then No.
You have fallen right into what APOS has desired for many years, to have exclusive rights if a NR hunter wants to hunt in alberta
9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)
Sounds great, but the harvest may be too high for sustaining a general season. Let's get more Nov. sheep draws in some of the wmu's that have a high number of park rams.
10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)
Excluding antlerless draws?
11. Create a Big Game Stamp which can only be purchased with proof of being eligible to hunt (exception for 11-12 year old applicants)
A person must purchase a valid Wildlife certificate and Big Game stamp BEFORE being eligable to apply in the draw system.
Great Idea!
I also have a Trophy hunting draw system Ive thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.
Yes, keep it to pm. You don't have enough beer to help me understand that one.
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06-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missingtwo
"6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports ."
I would add that any species that residents have to draw for would not be available to Non-residents.
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i keep hearing that and keep hating it. someone living in the east that has never seen a mule deer cant ever hunt one? how about sheep, or moose? im ok with sharing, but the numbers need to be kept reasonable. whats reasonable is debatable, but im against shutting others out.
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06-23-2013, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
[B][U]10 quick Idea's of the top of my
3. Price increase for draw application
7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.
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I think the price of 3.65$ an application is high enough. Harvest reports are already in affect and most people lie about them to inflate draw numbers the next year.
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06-23-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck Country
Point 6 is a good one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
yup agreed, it was discussed on another thread....
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It is Not a good idea!
This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.
Seems we need an example.
Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.
In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences
In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.
A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.
In my best Sheephunter typing....
Ugh.
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06-23-2013, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
It is Not a good idea!
This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.
Seems we need an example.
Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.
In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences
In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.
A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.
In my best Sheephunter typing....
Ugh.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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apparently you missed my suggestion if it was more than a P5 for a resident, no NR's would get any tags???
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
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![Old](images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
06-23-2013, 08:29 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
It is Not a good idea!
This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.
Seems we need an example.
Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.
In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences
In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.
A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.
In my best Sheephunter typing....
Ugh.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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this^^^^ and further...i think 5% would be more appropriate. 10% is actually a lot.
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![Old](images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
06-23-2013, 08:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Whitecourt AB
Posts: 3,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
As a suggestion, Even if Potty never asked for it.
For starters at least, instead of this becoming another debate thread, just post up your own ideas.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...
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Couldnt even wait one post to start waving your dick around?
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