Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[pottymouth]

10 quick Idea's of the top of my head

They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!


1. Verify all WIN #’s are valid people

• Proof of passed hunters training certificate
• Proof of Residency
• Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)


2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)

3. Price increase for draw application

4. Deadline date to purchase draws .

• Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and it’s priority points.
• Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
• Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)


5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.

6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .

7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.

9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)

10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)


I also have a Trophy hunting draw system I’ve thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

10 quick Idea's of the top of my head

They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!


1. Verify all WIN #’s are valid people

• Proof of passed hunters training certificate
• Proof of Residency
• Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)


2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)

3. Price increase for draw application

4. Deadline date to purchase draws .

• Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and it’s priority points.
• Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
• Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)


5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.

6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .

7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.

9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)

10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)


I also have a Trophy hunting draw system I’ve thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.

great idea Potty!!!number 10 is a good idea, the others have all been pretty much covered in a different thread....

[ksteed17]

I actually agree with every point. Pm that other system. Only thing I would add is a slight price increase in draw applications and tags.

[walking buffalo]

As a suggestion, Even if Potty never asked for it.

For starters at least, instead of this becoming another debate thread, just post up your own ideas.

[ishootbambi]

8 of them are pretty good. number 5 is only ok. I see that aimed largely at sheep. it is better than the status quo. number 10 is cheese. you actually said in the other thread you are against it too.....if you can only draw 3, then you better not apply for more than 3.

as for the trophy ideas...you have posted them before and it has been explained pretty well why it wont work. there is no control over harvest numbers on any given year. a few low numbers could blow up if everyone cashed in on the same year resulting on overharvest. as a trophy hunter, I like the concept, but in reality game management has to take precedent.

the only suggestion I have is to raise application fees on premium species. its the only way to eliminate the wife, the neighbour, the dog, and the kid down the street applying so old joe can sneak a mountain goat out of the Wilmore at 2 am and try to convince everyone the kid or the dog went hunting.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I am on board with most of the points but point 10 doesn't make a bunch if sense to me....I hunt all species in the province (or try to).....nice to focus on moose one year then elk then mule deer then sheep, etc. hard to pick only 3 to focus on....if someone gets 4 tags in a year and cannot hunt on all the tags, them they have lost the priority points anyhow and are back if the buss the following year....

It's a logistic nightmare to try and limit swine to only holding 3 draws tags if they are still able to apply for as many as they want.

Limit the nonresidents to applying for only 1 or 2....that makes sense.

LC

[elkhunter11]

As soon as you draw a tag, you are charged for that tag.

Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)

Who decides what is justified? People will try to abuse that clause, so I would not include it. If you are drawn, and you don't purchase your tag, the tag is redrawn again using the priority system, and your forfeit your priority.

If you fail to purchase tags a second time, in another year, you are suspended from using the draw system.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

I actually agree with every point. Pm that other system. Only thing I would add is a slight price increase in draw applications and tags.

so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by hal53

so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...

If you read in the other thread right from the beginning I said we needed higher fees not sure how you missed that. And potty said limit to DRAWING 3 tags not APPLYING for 3 like you said. Big difference.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

If you read in the other thread right from the beginning I said we needed higher fees not sure how you missed that. And potty said limit to DRAWING 3 tags not APPLYING for 3 like you said. Big difference.

okay sorry, I must have missed it, but being drawn for 3 and applying for 15 will do NOTHING to reduce the wait times, can you not see that?

[deanmc]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

As a suggestion, Even if Potty never asked for it.

For starters at least, instead of this becoming another debate thread, just post up your own ideas.

Originally Posted by hal53

so now you agree with increased app. fees and a limit on how many tags you can get in a year???...which way is the wind blowing there now. ? the ultimate goal, I thought was to eliminate the horrendous wait times?, how will any of his points accomplish this??... or is it just your "right" to apply for 15 draws a year???..the more I read here, the more I agree (sadly) with Pack, go get 'er boys, before they're all gone.....sorry...

Couldnt even wait one post to start waving your dick around?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by deanmc

Couldnt even wait one post to start waving your dick around?

#1, my ideas have been posted on another thread for a couple hrs. many others had posted their thoughts as well with some good ideas coming thru, Potty chose to make it his own thread which essentially mirrored what was being said on the initial one
2) as usual valuable input form Dean Mc...
the bottom line is, the system is broken, it needs fixing if you want your kids to be able to hunt some animals in their home province, so maybe just for once, let's see if we all collectively can come up with some sort of a plan to present that best represents all users goals???

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by hal53

apparently you missed my suggestion if it was more than a P5 for a resident, no NR's would get any tags???

Yes I did miss that, sort of.

Potty suggested eliminating NR from certain draw species. I replied that only if APOS has the same restrictions. If we are going to exclude NR, it should apply to both Hunter Hosts and Outfitters egually.

A separate NR draw regardless of priority level exclusions will take tags away from residents. By keeping NR in the same pool, including exclusions if desired, will keep 100% of the tags potentially available to residents.

Originally Posted by deanmc

Couldnt even wait one post to start waving your dick around?

Sorry, I Didn't mean to get you excited.

[walking buffalo]

Ok, forget my suggestion.

Originally Posted by pottymouth

10 quick Idea's of the top of my head

They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!


1. Verify all WIN #’s are valid people

• Proof of passed hunters training certificate
• Proof of Residency
• Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)


2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)

You mean 1 year wait for Resident status.
And include a provision requiring the person to have spent 6months of the year in Alberta.



3. Price increase for draw application





4. Deadline date to purchase draws .

• Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and it’s priority points.
• Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
• Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)

Payments gets complicated and expensve to run. CC# with application and charged upon successful draw. There can be a return option available for those that know they will not use the tag.


5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.

Change 1 licence to 10% of licences on lottery for All draws.

While this is better than present, I think we will still need some other system in order to deal with the problem of high demand.



6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .

I disagree with this completely.
A separate NR draw pool makes these licences Unavailable to residents. Other jurisdictions have gone through this and know better.
By keeping the NR (with a %cap) in the same pool as residents, residents have the potential to draw 100% of the licences while still giving NR the opportunity to draw up to the set cap.


7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

Sure, the info can only help inform future decisions.



8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.

Unless Outfitters have the same restrictions, then No.

You have fallen right into what APOS has desired for many years, to have exclusive rights if a NR hunter wants to hunt in alberta



9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)

Sounds great, but the harvest may be too high for sustaining a general season. Let's get more Nov. sheep draws in some of the wmu's that have a high number of park rams.


10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)

Excluding antlerless draws?



11. Create a Big Game Stamp which can only be purchased with proof of being eligible to hunt (exception for 11-12 year old applicants)

A person must purchase a valid Wildlife certificate and Big Game stamp BEFORE being eligable to apply in the draw system.

Great Idea!





I also have a Trophy hunting draw system I’ve thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.


Yes, keep it to pm. You don't have enough beer to help me understand that one.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Point 6 is a good one.

Originally Posted by hal53

yup agreed, it was discussed on another thread....

It is Not a good idea!

This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.


Seems we need an example.

Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.

In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences

In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.


A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.


In my best Sheephunter typing....

Ugh.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It is Not a good idea!

This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.


Seems we need an example.

Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.

In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences

In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.


A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.


In my best Sheephunter typing....

Ugh.

apparently you missed my suggestion if it was more than a P5 for a resident, no NR's would get any tags???

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It is Not a good idea!

This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.


Seems we need an example.

Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.

In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences

In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.


A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.


In my best Sheephunter typing....

Ugh.

this^^^^ and further...i think 5% would be more appropriate. 10% is actually a lot.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

this^^^^ and further...i think 5% would be more appropriate. 10% is actually a lot.

I see what you are saying now WB....I needed the "draws for dummies" version to understand....as long as they are limited to a cap I can go along with that.

LC

[double gun]

Drop the 999 system
Miss a year and priority goes back to zero
Automatically charge successful applicants for the full license cost.

[ishootbambi]

i could live without the 999. i use it often, but i can see how dropping it would free up a whole bunch of space.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i could live without the 999. i use it often, but i can see how dropping it would free up a whole bunch of space.

Wonder how much just taking that option out would eliminate? May be a pretty viable first step.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It is Not a good idea!

This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.


Seems we need an example.

Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.

In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences

In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.


A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.


In my best Sheephunter typing....

Ugh.

Doesn't have to be 10%, just a set amount so it is known. My understanding is right now there could be way more than 10% of the tags going to non residents if enough of them applied and were successful, this is more of a cap on nonres opportunity. Since we have outfitter allocations (and most of the states that use the 10% allotment for non residents don't) we could adjust the percentage or cap the number of tags for non residents to be lower. Maybe 5% is the right number I don't know.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Ok, forget my suggestion.

2.NO! not 6 months....1 year!

5. 10% is to much in some draws. 1 tag if the draw numbers allow that ( % to be worked on)

6. That again, could be a whole other discussion. That needs reduction ( but I didn't want to get into it) But I do agree they need that reduction!

I think that NR and OF's need some opportunity to hunt in AB. On a limited basis, and not all species ! Especially not the ones I mentioned. Unless they have a ministers tag sort of deal for the 4 species I mentioned? ..Just an Idea

8. I purposely didn't include Outfitters in this for now.

9. I didn't know there was a problem with sheep? did I miss some data somewhere?

10. Including antlerless. the #3 can always be adjusted

11. I'm not sure what a big game stamp does? Doesn't #1 already cover that?


WB, you gotta have more than one Idea!!! maybe it's the beer that gets you more opinionated...LOL

[H380]

I'm thinking the dropping 999 is probably the best idea set out . That would definitely cut the backlog and quick , if you are going to hunt it , then don't be applying .

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by H380

I'm thinking the dropping 999 is probably the best idea set out . That would definitely cut the backlog and quick , if you are going to hunt it , then don't be applying .

Then they might as well do away with a priority system all together

People will still continue to put in for everything....but the only difference is they will pull the tag on the years they are expected to vs. pulling them when they can predict or schedule the time.....thus the tags are still going to be tied up, and many will not be hunted.

With the 999 a guy who decides to 999 at a high priority is basically handing his tag to a next in line person...I know guys who are P14 for certain things....they deserve a chance to draw before someone who just started putting in don't you think?

LC

[ishootbambi]

point 4 takes care of that problem lefty.

[pottymouth]

Thinking out loud here! (TOLH)

Definitely 999 causes the person using 999 longer draw time.

but While that person uses 999, another person who was going to not draw that year actually does draw. 999 creates an accelerated draw then!

Now only when the original 999'er actually draws, does it create a longer wait time, for 1 person in some pool.

But if the person, who initially 999'ed, never enters the draw or changes zones( for some) then one person in that zone , in each pool actually gets drawn quicker.....

So while some will see an increase in time, some will also see a decrease in time....a small favorable gamble in my opinion...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Thinking out loud here! (TOLH)

Definitely 999 causes the person using 999 longer draw time.

but While that person uses 999, another person who was going to not draw that year actually does draw. 999 creates an accelerated draw then!

Now only when the original 999'er actually draws, does it create a longer wait time, for 1 person in some pool.

But if the person, who initially 999'ed, never enters the draw or changes zones( for some) then one person in that zone , in each pool actually gets drawn quicker.....

Exactly....how the heck do they eliminate 999 when it has been in place for over 15 years....without an uproar.

LC

[deanmc]

I wonder how many draws are lost every year to groups like peta applying in mass? Any statistics out there on this?

[Bassett]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

[B][U]10 quick Idea's of the top of my
3. Price increase for draw application


7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

I think the price of 3.65$ an application is high enough. Harvest reports are already in affect and most people lie about them to inflate draw numbers the next year.