SRD Anti Small Business??

I just filled out my hunter survey on-line and I found the following comment at the end very interesting.

DID YOU KNOW that all hunting and fishing licences can now be purchased and printed on line using your home computer? Financial savings from each internet licence purchase is used by Fish and Wildlife to fund resource management programs. We encourage all recreational hunters to purchase their 2010 licences using the internet at albertarelm.com.

If I remember right, the small retailers pay a premium to have those licence machines in store and they just had to get new ones. It's funny that SRD would be telling people not to support local businesses or am I reading too much into this? Personally, I like going to visit the helpful ladies at the local licence vendor.

[RobinHood]

I agree, that's what it sounds like to me too!

[Scotty P.]

I just filled out my survey as well and thought the same thing. I guess if they start saving a load of money on lincences and tags, we can expect the price of licences and tags to come down, right?

[crazyfish]

Always seems that the small guy is getting pushed out ! Read yesterday that the local clubs lost out on the cash for doing the surveys as well ! yippee , but once the big company is on the payroll, i guess it's hard to say no when they tell you they can do the survey, and have the results faster ?

[James M]

The new licence printers for 2010 that were mandatory for the stores to buy out of their own pockets were something like $2,500 too.

[riderpride55]

I think you are reading to much into it. I am 31 living in the big city. I have almost always had issues buying tags. I have even gone behind the counter to run the machine myself. I like being able to buy a tag at 4am before I leave for hunting.

I think the retailers that want the machines are servicing the customer that want no part in the internet. ie my dad

I'm not anti online...as you point out it's a valuable service but what I thought was funny was that SRD/ISM charges these small retailers for the machines and then tells hunters not to use them.

[BigRackLover]

Think efficiency people!

Eliminating the middle man (and associated hardware) will ultimately reduce costs ... its as simple as that.

I'd rather have our money go to SRD development than have local businesses profit(miniscule amounts) from our passionate hobby.

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not anti online...as you point out it's a valuable service but what I thought was funny was that SRD/ISM charges these small retailers for the machines and then tells hunters not to use them.

It amazes me that small retailers would sign up? Could the profit be that good? Exceptions for hunting and fishing stores of course, they want to attract people into their locations.

From the ones I've spoke with, they look at it as a service to their customers. It's definitely not a money maker.

[Castincowboy]

In the capacity of my last job I had been involved in the recent switch over to the new hardware required by Alberta Outdoor retailers and therefore dealt with the IBM team lead who runs REALM.

The need for the new hardware was due to Telus no longer supporting analog data transfer through the retailers phone lines as of Dec./09. Therefore the retailers and REALM had to move to the internet based system. James is correct it did cost $2,500 PLUS the cost to get internet service run to the new unit on the counter. Not cheap. But necessary to continue.

The amount of profit built into selling of the licenses is next to nothing! It is however, an excellent service to provide your customers with and of course, a great draw to get customers into the store to also purchase other items that the retailer can make some profit on.

The usage of the REALM "shop at home" system at the time I spoke to the IBM Team Lead was less then 2%. In the US which has had this system for a number of years the usage has never gone above 10%. Even they know this will never take over and replace the local retailers and the relationship between retailer and outdoorsmen. However, the SRD seems to think it will...

SRD beginning in 2010 will take "more active and selective" role in who the grant the right to sell these licenses and tags to. In other words, the stores who have sold in the past my not have the right in the future if they did not renew and purchase the new hardware before the cut off date. Also any new retailers who wish to begin selling tags and licenses my be refused the right to sell them by the provincial Gov't.

Just a small sampling of the useless information I carry around inside my skull!

[echo]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Think efficiency people!

Eliminating the middle man (and associated hardware) will ultimately reduce costs ... its as simple as that.

I'd rather have our money go to SRD development than have local businesses profit(miniscule amounts) from our passionate hobby.

Don't forget small businesses employ local people,some of which probly hunt and fish!!!

[LongDraw]

Talk to some of the small retailers, they are choked.

They have paid alot of money, buying machines, tags, rolls of paper to print licenses on, phone line for machine, recent upgrades, etc.. They have to pay for it all.

The payback is so small the intention of retailers is to offer this service and draw customers in.

However I don't know if there was any disclosure from SRD to participating retailers in the beginning that direct online purchase of tags and licenses was the long term goal?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

However I don't know if there was any disclosure from SRD to participating retailers in the beginning that direct online purchase of tags and licenses was the long term goal?

I'm all in favour of streamlining and cost-cutting. I also like the things we can do online now and support it, but there certainly should have been fair warning and notice to retailers (I'm thinking at least a year) or some sort of compensation for potential loss of revenue after retailers made investments. Given that I've read nothing about any sort of outcry from retailers I suspect this must have happened.

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I'm all in favour of streamlining and cost-cutting. I also like the things we can do online now and support it, but there certainly should have been fair warning and notice to retailers (I'm thinking at least a year) or some sort of compensation for potential loss of revenue after retailers made investments. Given that I've read nothing about any sort of outcry from retailers I suspect this must have happened.

x2.

I'm sure we'll hear about in court soon. Hopefully the lawyers will be local hunting and fishing residents

[Rockymtnx]

You’re absolutely right TJ.
They are weeding out the retailers. I know our local archery shop won’t be getting a new machine this year. The cost to him was $2675.00 plus a high speed internet connection. At the few pennies they make off each license it would take a long time to pay for it. Someone told me that, “well those machines bring customers to the store, and they spend money on other things.” I think that the majority of those customers would be going to the retailer to get their supplies anyway. Maybe in a area where there is multiple outdoor retail stores the customers may go to the location that sell licenses, but in an area like ours where we don’t have much selection we will still be going to the retailer without the licensing machine.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I just filled out my hunter survey on-line and I found the following comment at the end very interesting.



If I remember right, the small retailers pay a premium to have those licence machines in store and they just had to get new ones. It's funny that SRD would be telling people not to support local businesses or am I reading too much into this? Personally, I like going to visit the helpful ladies at the local licence vendor.

Weren't you the one that was listing internet licencing as one of the Morton positives? There are still quite a few people who are really not that internet savvy and there will continue to be. The retailers will not be keeping the machines in their stores if no one shows up to use them - I know of two that have disappeared already this past fall.

No, I don't think you are reading too much into this. Who is making the profit from the internet sales, and why should the gov't set them up with a market advantage over the local sports shop that would like to sell a box of ammo when you come in to pick up the licence.

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Weren't you the one that was listing internet licencing as one of the Morton positives? There are still quite a few people who are really not that internet savvy and there will continue to be. The retailers will not be keeping the machines in their stores if no one shows up to use them - I know of two that have disappeared already this past fall.

No, I don't think you are reading too much into this. Who is making the profit from the internet sales, and why should the gov't set them up with a market advantage over the local sports shop that would like to sell a box of ammo when you come in to pick up the licence.

Yes I was just listing that...so what...I think it's a great advancement. I just don't think that SRD should actively encourage people not to use local licencers. See the difference???

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Think efficiency people!

Eliminating the middle man (and associated hardware) will ultimately reduce costs ... its as simple as that.

I'd rather have our money go to SRD development than have local businesses profit(miniscule amounts) from our passionate hobby.

I highly doubt SRD is seeing any of that money. Someone is operating the online system for them, and it won't likely be cheap.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I highly doubt SRD is seeing any of that money. Someone is operating the online system for them, and it won't likely be cheap.

LOL, some might want to be careful they don't bike that hand that feeds...

Waxy

[Bushrat]

I guess selling licences could be a draw to get a few customers in the door at some businesses I think most retailers would rather not have to deal with selling them. By the time they pay someone wages to stand there and input information into these machines, purchase the machines and whatever else is needed to be a vendor it is an overall money looser for the seller. When I bought my licences last year it took the clerk about 15 minutes (the system seemed to be jammed up)from when he started pushing buttons until I got my tags and payed my money. There were about 5 guys lined up behind me. I had a cup of coffee and BS'd some folks in the store. It must have been at least an hour before they all got there tags. If they payed a clerk an hourly wage of $15 then it just cost the store $15 to sell 5 licences to 5 guys. 4 out of 5 payed with plastic so the retailer also has to eat the 2% to 5% surcharge the banks charge them when these cards are used. I don't think I would want to sell fishing and hunting licences if I owned a store.

Our gun club pays the store $5.00 for every club membership they sell for us which takes them very little of their time, why does the gov't have to be so cheap for a much more complicated transaction.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I just filled out my hunter survey on-line and I found the following comment at the end very interesting.



If I remember right, the small retailers pay a premium to have those licence machines in store and they just had to get new ones. It's funny that SRD would be telling people not to support local businesses or am I reading too much into this? Personally, I like going to visit the helpful ladies at the local licence vendor.

Personally i like the convienance of getting off work on a Friday night, not having to fight traffic or lineups and purchasing my licenses right from my computer desk knowing i have the right tags and not having to double check whether the 15 year old Canadian Tire clerk didn't mess anything up.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Yes I was just listing that...so what...I think it's a great advancement. I just don't think that SRD should actively encourage people not to use local licencers. See the difference???

I don't see a problem with what they are doing as long as they gave retailers decent notice. I suspect that setting up the online licencing system cost a fair bit of coin, and they won't be able to justify the expense or recoup any of the investment if they don't get a lot of people using it.

IMHO SRD absolutely should actively encourage people to use whichever system either saves or generates the most money for SRD programs. Anything else is just waste, which none of us want.

Originally Posted by Waxy

LOL, some might want to be careful they don't bike that hand that feeds...

Waxy

At the risk of thwarting another great conspiracy theory, if you remember back to last time we renewed our WIN cards, the price was doubled with the promise that ISM/IBM was going to set up this entire on-line system. It looks as though they have.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

At the risk of thwarting another great conspiracy theory, if you remember back to last time we renewed our WIN cards, the price was doubled with the promise that ISM/IBM was going to set up this entire on-line system. It looks as though they have.

Lol, a little touchy are we? What made you think that was aimed at you?

SRD funds and regulates a lot of things we as outdoorsmen value...

Waxy

Originally Posted by Waxy

Lol, a little touchy are we? What made you think that was aimed at you?

SRD funds and regulates a lot of things we as outdoorsmen value...

Waxy

I never once thought it was aimed at me, but I did know who it was aimed at..... You've shared that conspiracy theory with me before.....

I was just updating everyone on the sequence of events that led to the online system. If you remember, it was quite controversial back then.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I never once thought it was aimed at me, but I did know who it was aimed at..... You've shared that conspiracy theory with me before.....

I was just updating everyone on the sequence of events that led to the online system. If you remember, it was quite controversial back then.

Wow. Uhhhh, OK, but why quote me and reply directly then?

At any rate, the irony of your posts is lost on you I guess, but keep on reading minds and "remembering" things...

Waxy

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

At the risk of thwarting another great conspiracy theory, if you remember back to last time we renewed our WIN cards, the price was doubled with the promise that ISM/IBM was going to set up this entire on-line system. It looks as though they have.

Was Morton minister when this was put in motion? Or was his "good thing" to simply not axe that which some one else approved and started.

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Was Morton minister when this was put in motion? Or was his "good thing" to simply not axe that which some one else approved and started.

Hmmm....that's a good question....I can't honestly say. I'm sure Alberta Relm was his brainchild but I'm not certain on the online licencing. I believe it was but could be wrong.

[Rob Miskosky]

Both online licensing and Alberta Relm were in motion before Morton became minister.