What to do to protect freedom of speech

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

A S D ..... were they violent?

Strangely enough, our country says you have the right to do and think what you want, so long as it does not affect the peace or disrupt society.

We allow Satanists to publicly worship Satan.

We allow Nazis to publicly march....

We allow Islamic fundamentalists to call our country evil as well I guess.

So long as they don’t disrupt-hurt our society.

I think we should challenge these extremist groups. Yup.

But (as the Cop was noting) there’s a time and a place.
.....

My point and the cops point is that there’s a time and a place to stand opposed .

I think the vigil was way wrong. I reject Islamic fundamentalism, satanism, nazism..... and manipulative journalism.

Sigh. Didn't even want to get into this one. Yet here I am gluttonously looking for a bit of punishment.

I agree with what you are saying, and yes Menzies was acting the fool. However, they weren't telling him to leave or stop doing what he was doing, they only told him to stop saying "terrorist". Now obviously it was causing issues, so they wanted him to stop to prevent a disruption of society. I'm not sure if Canada keeps a list of known terrorists, but if he is in fact on said list there should be no stopping the use of the word. Anyways; that's getting off topic.

OK, so imagine an activist group occupies Cabelas at hunting season and they get violent when anyone uses the words, "hunt, tag, license, prey, ammo, gun..." You get the point. Is it illegal for me to use those words as it would disrupt them. I totally disagree with Menzies tact, but the very idea of this does trouble me.

Where exactly is the time and place that the RCMP speaks of, and if these same people threaten disobedience does it then end that time and place?

Menzies and Blaze are definitely sensationalizing a ploy to purposely inflame a crowd; agreed. However, seeing this, any "anti" group can now weaponize this tactic to hinder the sharing of free thought or speech. That does bother me.


ASD's comment below actually makes sense and is more cogent than anything else said previously. He should've probably led with this.

Originally Posted by A S D

The average citizen should never have to back up and shut up because a group may become violent. The peaceful or those that wish to debate loose their abilities to exercise their civil liberties because the protester's threaten to become violent? That bothers me. I think the gov't and legal industry has got that wrong.

Should the government force us to shut up because a group might get violent? In the end our system starts to fail. All that has to happen for a group to take power or push their agenda is to threaten violence?

It is up to the group to show control and respect others who question their belief. Was Menzies being a little too in your face, I think so. And yes, I could see he was stirring the pot.

And no, I am not a "them vs us person". I think you are right in identifying that as a major problem in society right now.

If you take time, you will see I follow nobody but try my best to make sense of what is happening myself. I try to see a situation or problem from several points of view. Then do my best to devlop an accurate view. I believe that if I'm wrong, I best change my view. Winning a debate if I'm wrong does not make me right.

In the end, I think that nobody should have their freedom curtailed because a group may become violent. The group threatening violence must obey the law.

No I am not being maipulated. I can see what is going on. I'm not stupid. Other people on this message board can reason, not just you.

[bessiedog]

Well

Show me where they are weaponizing it. The ‘time and place’ may conceivably be right across the street right at that same time. I’d bet the cops woulda let him.

But get right up in their faces with a camera and mic....?

Personally I would get ****ed if anyone stuck a mic and a camera up into my face during a vigil.


Article says it was a vigil. Sounds like not the place nor the time.

That’s gonna Inflame people. Add his tone and throw around terms like terrorist?


And for you guys to make the huge stretch that The State is infringing on mr Reporter dudes sec2 rights...?

I watched the vid. I think people are human and I could see where someone might snap at the provoker.
You guys are saying they MUST keep their cool under these circumstances...?
You and I wouldn’t and it’s silly to lay blame on the dudes at the vigil IF violence started.


Oh.... but no violence happened, cause a veteran cop read the situation and diffused it.

And we’re jumping all over the Pro Lefty State here for jackbooting our rights.



Huge stretch. You got dog whistled. You still are.


And aSD is do mad he decided to label and deride me for simply disagreeing with him and explaining why I thought he might be wrong.

And yes.... do sontimes write a little hostile. It’s a totally wrong asshat thing to do.
I slip up from time to time. It’s tough to be civil,

I’ll try harder though.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Well

Show me where they are weaponizing it. The ‘time and place’ may conceivably be right across the street right at that same time. I’d bet the cops woulda let him.

But get right up in their faces with a camera and mic....?

Personally I would get ****ed if anyone stuck a mic and a camera up into my face during a vigil.


Article says it was a vigil. Sounds like not the place nor the time.

That’s gonna Inflame people. Add his tone and throw around terms like terrorist?


And for you guys to make the huge stretch that The State is infringing on mr Reporter dudes sec2 rights...?

I watched the vid. I think people are human and I could see where someone might snap at the provoker.
You guys are saying they MUST keep their cool under these circumstances...?
You and I wouldn’t and it’s silly to lay blame on the dudes at the vigil IF violence started.


Oh.... but no violence happened, cause a veteran cop read the situation and diffused it.

And we’re jumping all over the Pro Lefty State here for jackbooting our rights.



Huge stretch. You got dog whistled. You still are.


And aSD is do mad he decided to label and deride me for simply disagreeing with him and explaining why I thought he might be wrong.

And yes.... do sontimes write a little hostile. It’s a totally wrong asshat thing to do.
I slip up from time to time. It’s tough to be civil,

I’ll try harder though.

Easy tiger. You don’t have to get all bent out of shape. I agree with the fact Menzies shouldn’t have been there. I conceded that already. Forget about him. A vigil (basically a funeral) is nowhere to be pulling this stupidity.

I never got dog whistled, I think you should reread my response. In your mind when you read it imagine a calm voice, not somebody yelling at you.


Now back to what I was asking, about the whole issue. If all I have to do is fake indignation and I can control your ability to speak your mind; does that not make you stand back and think about it? That will be how this technique will eventually be weaponized. Not worried about jackboots, I just try to study thin edges of wedges.

Let’s say we meet at some public event with a local politician or something. We are there to debate an issue. Say a new horseshoe pit is being planned. So the pro horseshoe-pit people lay out why it’s a good plan to build the new pit. Afterwards, the anti-horseshoe-pit begin to speak. The crowd erupts and the police have to be called in. The police say, “no more hot shoe-pit talk tonight” Talking of horseshoe-pits is going to start a disruption of the people. It’s the reason we are there yet we can’t debate it as it causes a disruption.

Of course that is a crazy example, but can you honestly in your heart tell me you think I’m 100% wrong in thinking the way I do?

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Now back to what I was asking, about the whole issue. If all I have to do is fake indignation and I can control your ability to speak your mind; does that not make you stand back and think about it? That will be how this technique will eventually be weaponized. Not worried about jackboots, I just try to study thin edges of wedges.

The precedent has already been set. This has been happening for a few years now in both the U.S. and Canada. They have used this technique to cause the cancellation of debates, speeches, and rallies. Both on campuses and at private venues.
"You mustn't upset the children, they have threatened violence if they are offended."
Of course, the people who use, and support, this approach to stifle free speech will vehemently defend its use. It comes from the same camp that defends criminals and demonizes victims who choose to defend themselves.