What is truth?

[gunluvr]

We have as good a chance of getting factual information from traditional news sources (CBC, CTV, CNN, Fox News, etc.) as we do from AO posts...Hit and miss. People stake their conceptualization of world events on whatever source seems sympathetic to their political views.
Has it always been this way? Is this a symptom of social media? Where did your parents get their news from and how did their world view shape yours?
Is the trick to not take anything you read for granted until you've done your due research? But where do you get your research from? Is it all credible or have the facts been cherry-picked to promote the author's agenda?
Is there really any universally dependable news source? Has Libel law been abandoned for the sake of political alignment and fund sourcing?
We believe what we want to believe, but "following the money" is usually the best barometer of truth-telling.
Since AO has allowed political discussion, the divide between camps on either side of debates, particularly those over environmental and indigenous issues bring up many questions on who to believe. Some members call out news sources like "The Rebel" for sensationalizing and call them "fake". Others objectively weigh news reports and make up their own mind.
How do you decide what you choose to believe? More importantly, why should others believe you?

[58thecat]

Truth....be it as it may....just that....take it with a grain of salt and you will be ok.

[bloopbloob]

I can only speak for myself, so here's my opinion.

Unless you personally experienced the event, TRUTH is just whatever you choose to believe. I have 8 years of post-secondary, and think I have a pretty good grasp of being able to filter the propaganda out. I take nothing at face value. If I find something of particular interest, I try to source it and decide how credible I think it is.

[Smoky buck]

When it comes to the media the truth is found somewhere between the BS, exaggerations, and agendas. There you find half the story because they have no clue what is going on either

[sk270]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Unless you personally experienced the event, TRUTH is just whatever you choose to believe.

It's worse than that, according to research I have seen on attention and memory. Even events that were experienced may be a matter of belief rather than fact. Have you ever tried the Harvard invisible gorilla test?

[Drew_53]

Interesting question you pose, reminds me of a quote.

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective not the truth.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

I can only speak for myself, so here's my opinion.

Unless you personally experienced the event, TRUTH is just whatever you choose to believe. I have 8 years of post-secondary, and think I have a pretty good grasp of being able to filter the propaganda out. I take nothing at face value. If I find something of particular interest, I try to source it and decide how credible I think it is.

Pretty much this ^^^
I read a variety of sources...as unbiased as I can find and try and check their facts.
But as Bloop says, if I wasn’t there I’m still gonna draw a conclusion that may be wrong.

[omega50]

Follow the money

[sk270]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Pretty much this ^^^
I read a variety of sources...as unbiased as I can find and try and check their facts.
But as Bloop says, if I wasn’t there I’m still gonna draw a conclusion that may be wrong.

I think that the invisible gorilla mentioned above tells us that the problem is even worse. Even if you were there you can't be sure that the facts that you remember are correct.

Only a few news outlets like Reuters attempt to present nothing but the facts. Of course, these are filtered by the reporters according to their own biases, as well as perceptual and informational deficits.

[Grizzly Adams]

Truth is a strange thing, even scientifically . Cold hard facts become colored by the expectations of the beholder. An Iranian Truth has no resemblance to what an American considers as Truth, even a Democrat can't relate to a Republican Truth. Trudeau can't understand an Albertan Truth. It's basically, whatever your emotions tell you it is.

Grizz

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

TRUTH is just whatever you choose to believe.

This seems to be a popular thought; but it means that opposing views can both be correct. If I choose to believe that the sun is blue, that doesn't make it true.
I recognize that there are plenty of "grey areas" where reality may not be clear; but even within these the perspective of one person may be more accurate/closer to reality, than that of another.

[sns2]

Damn interesting question you pose.

I got nothing except to say that I agree with every answer given.

[sk270]

I think that there are some things that are both subjectively and objectively true. These are not usually the source of disagreements. We can all agree that the sun rose over there (points to the east) today.

Unfortunately, it seems that the more important the question, the harder it is to determine objective truths to answer it. This applies whether we are discussing climate change, crime rates or the best form of government.

Are there any philosophers or scientists on here to help?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by omega50

Follow the money

What do people releasing this information have to gain? Are they being paid by the government, or a special interest group?

[W921]

I miss Dave Rutherford! They fired him for telling the truth.

I generally listen to Danielle Smith on AM770 in the mornings if I want to know what's going on.
Most of the time I don't want to know because its to annoying.
I think talk radio or places like this forum are good because all sides can have or should have a say. I think if different sides can have a say, the truth generally comes out.
If someone is an idiot it should be obvious to everyone without me saying it.

Lots of times I just bite my tongue on things cause I want to make friends, not enemies.
None of us especially me have the power to change anything so what does it matter.
Sometimes I watch Lethbridge news on TV. I do that for entertainment. Watch the car jackings and crime, makes me happy I dont live there.

One thing that really gets me about some of the news outlets are their experts that they talk to because they think we are to dumb to know better.
Example's are
Head of the AMA to explain about commercial or farm trucks or some other person that has never borrowed money to buy land, equipment or cows knowing everything about farming or my favorite is the academic who knows everything about everything that the rest of us are to dumb to understand. Course they have good spelling and use big words so they must know everything even though they are basically like a kid that never grew up. Example spent their whole life in school, still ride a bike, never had a real private sector job or created a business of their own with borrowed money.
I dont mean this as personal attacks but people need some type of real credentials to be taken serious.
Or you will have the victim of a crime on the news every night telling us what should be done to prevent the same terrible thing from happening. Think Humboldt or any of the shooting tragedy's. Thats the same as making me in charge of airline safety if my daughter got killed in an aircraft even though I know nothing about it. Then if I say this I'm insensitive

[glen moa]

When I’m Witness and know it’s fact I cement it in. Not debatable.

Otherwise I consider the story and judge what’s most likely. This is why I ask some questions. A pattern or possibilities may show up. When I talk about a story I state how confident I am about it being true.
Very much like a judge does.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by omega50

Follow the money

^^ this all day long Way back in the early 70's, math teacher told us Believe half of what you and nothing what you hear

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by alacringa

This seems to be a popular thought; but it means that opposing views can both be correct. If I choose to believe that the sun is blue, that doesn't make it true.
I recognize that there are plenty of "grey areas" where reality may not be clear; but even within these the perspective of one person may be more accurate/closer to reality, than that of another.

I think the opposing views are probably both incorrect to some point...

To use your blue sun analogy, the sun emits light energy between 400 and 450nm wavelength (blue in our color spectrum). Some people/animals may only be able to see a small spectrum, and it just might appear blue...


I come from a science background. I was taught that theories are never proven, they can only be disproven.

[hogie]

Get as much information that you can on a subject before you can make a conclusion.

I remember reading that the start of newspapers were political. Political parties backed the writing to thier advantage . Put someone's view down as being wrong. I don't think much has changed. I think it has actually gotten worse in the last 10 years, more so in the last 5.

[Dean2]

There are facts - gravity is a fact. There is opinion - I believe I can counteract gravity and there is observation - I threw an apple up in the air.

Then there are the various versions of the truth - I was present and saw gravity was counteracted because the apple went up. I was present and Gravity won because the apple came back down. I was present and throwing apples is a Liberal conspiracy to justify a tax on gravity. I read one of these posts by someone who was present and I believe that gravity was counteracted.

This is the nature of "truth". Truth is a colorized rendition of fact and observation, interpreted through ones' value system and existing beliefs.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sk270

I think that there are some things that are both subjectively and objectively true. These are not usually the source of disagreements. We can all agree that the sun rose over there (points to the east) today.

I disagree. It rose in the South. Slightly Southeast. It sets in the South. Slightly Southwest.

I hate winter. Even the sun isn't right.

[Pathfinder76]

Truth does not change while your truth may blow wildly in the wind. The key is to know the difference.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Even sometimes our eyes lie to us, because we “will” them to see what we want to see.

Case in point, a guy shoots a big deer...swears he “smoked” him. Can’t find a deer anywhere. See deer a week later with an arrow sticking out of his hip... how is that possible if he “smoked” him?

Our eyes and brain sometimes lie to us or we want the outcome to be so positive we gloss over the details that suggest otherwise.

LC

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by Dean2

There are facts - gravity is a fact. There is opinion - I believe I can counteract gravity and there is observation - I threw an apple up in the air.

Then there are the various versions of the truth - I was present and saw gravity was counteracted because the apple went up. I was present and Gravity won because the apple came back down. I was present and throwing apples is a Liberal conspiracy to justify a tax on gravity. I read one of these posts by someone who was present and I believe that gravity was counteracted.

This is the nature of "truth". Truth is a colorized rendition of fact and observation, interpreted through ones' value system and existing beliefs.

Gravity is only a theory, not a fact or truth.... Al Gore made a movie, Inconvenient Truth, that is a fact....

[58thecat]

there are no round squares.....

[Masterchief]

I just read the CBC news and take the complete opposite if what they report as truth.

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk

[sk270]

Originally Posted by glen moa

When I’m Witness and know it’s fact I cement it in. Not debatable.

However, the invisible gorilla experiment shows that being a witness does not guarantee remembering a fact (http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html). For another example, 83% of radiologists did not see a gorilla in a CT scan while searching for lung nodules (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964612).

People pay attention to what they regard as important. They can completely miss things that they don't expect to see or are not looking for.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by sk270

Are there any philosophers or scientists on here to help?

Elk11 is simultaneously a philosopher and a scientist

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Gravity is only a theory, not a fact or truth.... Al Gore made a movie, Inconvenient Truth, that is a fact....

You are partially correct.

Laws (Facts) tell us what happens.
Theories explain how and why something happens.

While laws rarely change, theories change frequently as new evidence is discovered. Instead of being discarded because of new evidence, theories are often revised to include the new evidence in their explanation. The Theory of General Relativity has adapted as new technologies and new evidence have expanded our view of the universe.
So when we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.

[Maxwell78]

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”

Mark Twain