Thinking of a new Honda SUV?

[ATF]

So we picked up a 2019 Honda Passport in September.
Really enjoyed driving it and the vehicle with a set of Hakepilita's is awesome on these terrible roads in Edmonton.
But one thing I have discovered and that doesn't sit well with me is that the heat in these things is brutal.
In fact I think there is a big design flaw based on complaints I've read about people with the newer Pilot's, Ridgeline's and now the Passports.
When driving there is hot air blowing through the vents but as soon as you drop below 1000rpm like when stopping for a light the air temp drops down substantially. (15-20 degrees?)I've never had a vehicle drop hot air for almost cool air before, its that big a difference. Honda dealer says operating as designed and lots of people are not happy about it. Having a factory remote start is also useless as well as there is no range and I have started it and run it while plugged in during these cold temperatures and the temperature gauge doesn't budge? There's no way I would take this thing ice fishing if I wanted to keep warm.
One of the reasons we sold our 4 cylinder Subaru was the wife was never happy with the heat it puts out in the winter and I thought a V6 would cure that but boy was I wrong.
So be warned if you want to keep your wife happy.

[RandyBoBandy]

if you have access to an infra-red temp gun take a temp reading on each heater hose @ 2500 RPM and at IDLE...see what the temp difference is and get back to me

[omega50]

Weird -almost acting like trapped air. Any chance there is a dedicated coolant bleeder on this vehicle.

[Reel Time Rut Outdoors]

This is a known issue with these newer Honda SUVs. They blow colder air due to their fuel efficient engines. Burn small amount of fuel doesn't make enough heat when the temps really dip down low.

They released some new flashes for the ecu to try and combat this. But not a big help.

We have a 2017 CRV so same issue

[Dean2]

Sorry to hear of your problems but hearing this makes me really glad my wife picked the Grande Cherokee when we were shopping for her new car end of Dec. Up till she drove it the Honda Pilot was in the lead and I had not heard anything about this heating issue. It also wasn't that cold out so we didn't notice it on the test drive. I can say for sure that the Grande Cherokee with the V8 puts out lots of heat, idling or traveling and it has significantly better ride, brakes, handling and gittyup than the Pilot or the Highlander had.

[204ruger]

Originally Posted by ATF

So we picked up a 2019 Honda Passport in September.
Really enjoyed driving it and the vehicle with a set of Hakepilita's is awesome on these terrible roads in Edmonton.
But one thing I have discovered and that doesn't sit well with me is that the heat in these things is brutal.
In fact I think there is a big design flaw based on complaints I've read about people with the newer Pilot's, Ridgeline's and now the Passports.
When driving there is hot air blowing through the vents but as soon as you drop below 1000rpm like when stopping for a light the air temp drops down substantially. (15-20 degrees?)I've never had a vehicle drop hot air for almost cool air before, its that big a difference. Honda dealer says operating as designed and lots of people are not happy about it. Having a factory remote start is also useless as well as there is no range and I have started it and run it while plugged in during these cold temperatures and the temperature gauge doesn't budge? There's no way I would take this thing ice fishing if I wanted to keep warm.
One of the reasons we sold our 4 cylinder Subaru was the wife was never happy with the heat it puts out in the winter and I thought a V6 would cure that but boy was I wrong.
So be warned if you want to keep your wife happy.

Put cardboard in front of rad. Keep as much warmth in that rad as possible it will help with the cold air cooling things off. Even though it’s a issue with the engine rpm and low fuel usage for economy cardboard or a winter front will help a lot on these cold days.

[elkhunter11]

I would never have thought that this could be an issue in 2019. Given Honda's reputation I am surprised. I never saw any mention of this reading the reviews for the Ridgeline but how many tests are done in our cold conditions?

[dmcbride]

The Wife’s Hyundai Tusan does the same thing when it is below -30.

[omega50]

Perfect week to go on test drives.
Now I am suspicious of every new vehicle.
Our little 2007 Honda Fit with a 1.5l has good heat at idle in these conditions.
I don't buy fuel efficiency as an excuse.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would never have thought that this could be an issue in 2019. Given Honda's reputation I am surprised. I never saw any mention of this reading the reviews for the Ridgeline but how many tests are done in our cold conditions?

I’ve got a ‘19 Ridgeline, no heat issues.

[ATF]

Yeah who would have thought to put the heater on high when test driving in September?
I hadn’t heard about this issue either until I googled it but the more I searched the more I read about it and no it doesn’t sound like Honda has any plans to address it.
I guess Canada and the northern US states don’t account for enough of their sales to matter to them.
I’m just disgusted to discover it operates like this after shelling out the coin.

[sns2]

Gee, I don't have to wear a skidoo suit in my Ridgeline. Minus 45 windchill does strange stuff to any vehicle. Cardboard is cheap.

[srs123]

Am glad I saw this post. We have been looking at getting a Crv for the wife but I was a bit concerned about the 1.5 L engine and how it would perform . I guess it is a no go. Although, I was told all new Hondas have automatic shutters in the grill that come down when it's too cold. DO THEY WORK?

Do you guys know of any website that has car issues like that summarized so a person can make a better decision when buying?

Thanks

[omega50]

Question?
How do any manufacturers deal with heating and start/stop technology in these conditions

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by omega50

Question?
How do any manufacturers deal with heating and start/stop technology in these conditions

Start stop doesn't work if you have the heater running full tilt. Also, you can shut that feature off on 95% of cars.

I too do not buy Honda's excuse that the engines are too fuel efficient to produce heat at idle. If that were true the Toyotas would have the same problem and all of them with 4 and 6 cylinder motors produce great heat and will heat up the car on idle with the remote start. There is no way a motor cools off when you pull up to a stop light, the issue is bad design, not lack of motor heat. The water pump is not circulating enough water at idle. Is it an electronic water pump on those vehicles?

I would put a cardboard or carpet front on the car, if you put cardboard make sure you have a 6" diameter hole in it to let some air through, the carpet will let enough air through without a hole.

[nebcfarmer]

Heard the same about the new gas Chevy trucks.

Wife went with the escape over the crv, been happy with the purchase.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by omega50

Question?
How do any manufacturers deal with heating and start/stop technology in these conditions

With the technology available on vehicles today, it should be a simple matter of monitoring ambient temperature versus fluid jacket temperature, taking into account motor RPM and torque curves, and adjusting the thermostat and electrical cooling fan speed as necessary to maintain optimum operating temperature.
Apparently, PID loops are harder for some manufacturers than others.

In the case of Honda, I would be curious to know if the vent doors are spring/vacuum operated versus electrical. If they are spring/vacuum operation, could be a case of vacuum loss at idle in cold weather allowing cold air into the mix.

As for the Start/Stop question- turn that feature off in cold weather.

[omega50]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

With the technology available on vehicles today, it should be a simple matter of monitoring ambient temperature versus fluid jacket temperature, taking into account motor RPM and torque curves, and adjusting the thermostat and electrical cooling fan speed as necessary to maintain optimum operating temperature.
Apparently, PID loops are harder for some manufacturers than others.

In the case of Honda, I would be curious to know if the vent doors are spring/vacuum operated versus electrical. If they are spring/vacuum operation, could be a case of vacuum loss at idle in cold weather allowing cold air into the mix.

As for the Start/Stop question- turn that feature off in cold weather.

Of course the feature could be shut off, but have they engineered these vehicles to automatically supply less heat at idle in some misguided attempt to master start/stop technology.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

With the technology available on vehicles today, it should be a simple matter of monitoring ambient temperature versus fluid jacket temperature, taking into account motor RPM and torque curves, and adjusting the thermostat and electrical cooling fan speed as necessary to maintain optimum operating temperature.
Apparently, PID loops are harder for some manufacturers than others.

In the case of Honda, I would be curious to know if the vent doors are spring/vacuum operated versus electrical. If they are spring/vacuum operation, could be a case of vacuum loss at idle in cold weather allowing cold air into the mix.

As for the Start/Stop question- turn that feature off in cold weather.

The technology should be simple, just as it should have been when thousands of torque converters in GM diesels overheated about ten years ago, during a very cold few days in Alberta. Thousands of vehicle were left stranded because of that one flaw.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by omega50

Of course the feature could be shut off, but have they engineered these vehicles to automatically supply less heat at idle in some misguided attempt to master start/stop technology.

That should be an easily remedied software/programming issue. The fact that they have not addressed it leads me to believe it is beyond the capability of their people. Or, it is an expensive mechanical issue that they do not want to admit to.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The technology should be simple, just as it should have been when thousands of torque converters in GM diesels overheated about ten years ago, during a very cold few days in Alberta. Thousands of vehicle were left stranded because of that one flaw.

Was that a software issue? Mechanical failure? Or a combination of both?
Either way:

[omega50]

Wonder how the AC behaves at idle on a hot day on these new Honda Vehicles.
Wondering if heating with the AC energized would impact this situation in a positive fashion.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

Was that a software issue? Mechanical failure? Or a combination of both?
Either way:

They changed the temperature setting to open the valve on the warmup loop to eliminate the issue. The sensor was so far from the converter, the converters overheated before the valve opened to let the oil go through the cooler.

[ATF]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

if you have access to an infra-red temp gun take a temp reading on each heater hose @ 2500 RPM and at IDLE...see what the temp difference is and get back to me

110/142 at idle and 142/162 at 2500rpm.

[ATF]

So what will cardboard do if it's a problem not circulating the coolant at idle? There' s heat when driving just not as much when stopped.
I found a post from a Honda forum where someone from the Yukon said their dealer figured out how to alleviate the issue by running the heater at 23 and on the lowest fan setting.
People are willing to try anything to keep their toes warm.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by ATF

So what will cardboard do if it's a problem not circulating the coolant at idle? There' s heat when driving just not as much when stopped.
I found a post from a Honda forum where someone from the Yukon said their dealer figured out how to alleviate the issue by running the heater at 23 and on the lowest fan setting.
People are willing to try anything to keep their toes warm.

Part of your issue is your engine doesn't seem to be getting up to full operating temp in the cold. Your readings show only 142 to 160 F on the heater hoses at 2500, this should be closer to 195 when fully warm. The carboard will reduce the flow of cold air over the motor and allow it to get to full operating temp. Having the heater hose drop from 190 to 160 would not be near as big a deal as dropping to 100. It should be running at least 190 F, 88 C. If the motor doesn't get fully hot, you will have really poor interior heat and a far less efficient running vehicle. You may also need to change over to a winter thermostat, depending on what the temp on the current one is.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ATF

So what will cardboard do if it's a problem not circulating the coolant at idle? There' s heat when driving just not as much when stopped.
I found a post from a Honda forum where someone from the Yukon said their dealer figured out how to alleviate the issue by running the heater at 23 and on the lowest fan setting.
People are willing to try anything to keep their toes warm.

With a temperature controlled electric fan, the cardboard will not do much when sitting at idle, because there wouldn't be any airflow over the engine and radiator at idle anyways. When traveling, it will reduce airflow, and allow the engine to heat up more.

[ATF]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With a temperature controlled electric fan, the cardboard will not do much when sitting at idle, because there wouldn't be any airflow over the engine and radiator at idle anyways. When traveling, it will reduce airflow, and allow the engine to heat up more.

Exactly right but while driving it does put out good heat. It's just the drop at every stop that sucks. Driving in the city in stop and go rush hour is not allowing the interior to warm up like driving on the highway

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by ATF

So what will cardboard do if it's a problem not circulating the coolant at idle? There' s heat when driving just not as much when stopped.
I found a post from a Honda forum where someone from the Yukon said their dealer figured out how to alleviate the issue by running the heater at 23 and on the lowest fan setting.
People are willing to try anything to keep their toes warm.

darn gu-burn-mint. should be a law the heater works for canuck climate

would take an hour to pass the legislation

nobody cares in government

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by ATF

Exactly right but while driving it does put out good heat. It's just the drop at every stop that sucks. Driving in the city in stop and go rush hour is not allowing the interior to warm up like driving on the highway

Card board or carpet scraps are basically free, it takes maybe 10 minutes to put one in place (if you use carpet face the jute side towards the motor), and there are a bunch of us that have lived where -20 or colder for weeks on end is common and we know this almost always helps. I still run a winter front on my Dodge pickup because even with 8 litres of gas V10 you need to reduce the airflow in the city and highway to get to full operating temp at -30 and colder. It is supposed to run at 190 F but at -30 the engine has trouble getting above 170 without the winter front because it has such a huge grill and radiator area. I know these are old fashioned fixes but they have worked for 50 years.

Dealer and internet aren't offering any fixes for the problem, what have you got to lose.