ANOTHER school shooting. -Florida-

[223MB]

Originally Posted by slough shark

There are a few simple things they need to do and then an observation, first they need to screen people getting guns for mental illness and criminal records a bit better. Other than that laws might be tweaked here and there but those are the bigger ones. The observation I have is these mass shootings started proliferating around the time a few things happened, internet became a bigger thing followed by the rise of social media. Social media promised connection and understanding but it seems it’s pushed people further away from each other (while at the same time highlighting differences and driving wedges). The other thing is the video games and tv/movies that we have nowadays, much more graphic and violent than they were 20 years ago, they’re also much more involved and time consuming, I’m not saying video games make people do this but the desensitizing and isolation they cause don’t do many people any good

Better screening prior to purchasing a firearm is a good start. But what about those that develop a mental illness after the gun has been legally purchased?

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Better screening prior to purchasing a firearm is a good start. But what about those that develop a mental illness after the gun has been legally purchased?

No law will ever catch everything, other interesting ideas might be having a minimum age of 21 for what we call “restricted” up here, most of the mental illness has showed itself by then. At the end of the day the main issue are societal issues over gun issues, we deal with the actual issues and lo and behold the mass shootings ought to drop. It’s easier to talk about gun laws though although they will have a limited impact.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by slough shark

No law will ever catch everything, other interesting ideas might be having a minimum age of 21 for what we call “restricted” up here, most of the mental illness has showed itself by then. At the end of the day the main issue are societal issues over gun issues, we deal with the actual issues and lo and behold the mass shootings ought to drop. It’s easier to talk about gun laws though although they will have a limited impact.

Here is a video I’ve watched a few times and strongly agree with. Long but good.
https://youtu.be/ITIYRAOW8sE
Here in Canada we still have a fairly strong family and value system not so much in the US.

[Unregistered user]

if "Big Pharma" has all the politicos bought and paid for and there is no way of doing anything about leaving medicated (sometimes) whack jobs roaming the streets, perhaps it is time to rethink tossing them in the loony bin. Sounds cruel, but it's not so bad as seeing kids getting killed. It worked before.

[Newview01]

Interesting.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/0...ground-checks/

ST. PAUL, Minn. (WCCO) — Minnesota set a record last year for the number of gun background checks the FBI conducted in the state.

More people are carrying guns than ever before, but the crime rate remains relatively low. WCCO’s Pat Kessler is looking at the numbers, and giving them a Reality Check.

We took a hard look at the numbers, and found: Minnesota has a high rate of gun ownership, and a relatively low rate of violent crime.

Minnesota’s violent crime rate hit a 50-year low in 2016, according to the FBI.

And in 2017, the state set a new record for firearms background checks.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System reports it processed nearly 683,544 checks on gun buyers in 2017. That includes: 473,975 permits, 94,383 handguns and 125,516 long guns.

Minnesota set another 2017 record, too.

The State Department of Public Safety reports 283,188 Minnesotans now have permits to legally carry firearms in public.

In 2017, the state issued 57,651 permits to carry a weapon in public. That’s down from a record 71,156 permits issued in 2016.

There’s still a lot we don’t know about guns in Minnesota. An estimated 36.7 percent of Minnesotans own at least one firearm.

But we don’t know how many total guns there are in the state, or exactly how many gun owners there are, or how much ammunition is sold every year.

You would think with all that gun ownership the streets in Minnesota would be running with blood.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.

Please elaborate, if you think you found the cure for crazy people killing others. I am sure lots would like to know.

Or you another one of those blaming objects on criminal insanity.

[Sierra1]

Cause ‘Merica...if they didn’t have the guns they’d be using something else. The rest of the first world has video games/social media too. Lots of countries, like ours, have lots of guns.
But the rate of occurrence for this type of thing in the US is exponentially larger than in any other country.
The lack of screening for mental health, access to high capacity firearms, and a glorifying media all play a role but their cultural propensity and willingness to use violence is what sets them apart.

[Diesel_wiesel]

If we make guns Illegal Nobody will get shot anymore
That's How we stopped everybody from doing drugs
isn't it???

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Sierra1

Cause ‘Merica...if they didn’t have the guns they’d be using something else. The rest of the first world has video games/social media too. Lots of countries, like ours, have lots of guns.
But the rate of occurrence for this type of thing in the US is exponentially larger than in any other country.
The lack of screening for mental health, access to high capacity firearms, and a glorifying media all play a role but their cultural propensity and willingness to use violence is what sets them apart.

Or is it idle hands and prosperity. Children in other countries struggle to survive or are at a time in their history where they have not yet reached a peak. You are not thinking about shooting up the school when people are trying to kill you or you are half starved most of the time. If you do pick up arms you are a soldier, not a misunderstood teenager.

This is the first generations in the USA and Canada where the children will not be better off than the parents and in fact they have been divided into two distinct groups. Those that come from wealth will inherit or at least get enough assistance to get by and those that do not will have to succeed beyond reasonable accomplishment. There are many in the first group that can find no mental stimulation and wallow in ego and/or self pity. There are many in the second group that are completely overwhelmed or frustrated and are becoming desperate for some sort of identity.

I moved to Alberta a lifetime ago to raise my children in an environment where a person that works hard will make a very good wage and prosper. There are very few places in Canada and I doubt the USA where this is true anymore. You have to be above average intelligence, have chosen the right career path, had at least decent financial backing, and had a bit of luck along the way.

50% of the population is not of above average intelligence and/or do not have the backing and drive to succeed. Do you really think they are just going to sit idly by in poverty and watch the other half flourish?

The factories have closed, the jobs are gone, families are disintegrating, drug use/overdose are at epidemic proportion and we smugly sit here in our comfortable homes contemplating the fate of the world.

Do you people truly believe that by tweaking gun laws and ordering the people to toe the line that tomorrow is going to be a better day?

[58thecat]

At the end of the day....such a senseless loss of life.

Now the experts are going to dive in and give it thier shot from its Trumps fault to fail in The education system....and all that falls in between.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Please elaborate, if you think you found the cure for crazy people killing others. I am sure lots would like to know.

Or you another one of those blaming objects on criminal insanity.

"Bad things happen and many people believe something needs to be done.

What if nothing can be done? What if that kid was destine to do harm to others, like a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper or even Hitler? Obviously there is as many ways to kill as the insane mind can imagination."

This is what I have an issue with. Destiny? Really? I would assume that all sane people agree something needs to be done, finding middle ground on what that is though is where issues arise.

I don't claim to have any answers, I have opinions like everybody of course. I'm just really glad I'm Canadian

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by fitzy

"Bad things happen and many people believe something needs to be done.

What if nothing can be done? What if that kid was destine to do harm to others, like a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper or even Hitler? Obviously there is as many ways to kill as the insane mind can imagination."

This is what I have an issue with. Destiny? Really? I would assume that all sane people agree something needs to be done, finding middle ground on what that is though is where issues arise.

I don't claim to have any answers, I have opinions like everybody of course. I'm just really glad I'm Canadian

In many cases, like the recently caught serial killer in CANADA, you would have to have a crystal ball to prevent the killings.

In this particular case, the authorities were notified of the potential risk and chose not to act. This remains our best and perhaps only defense although there obviously remains the "human error" factor.

Evil people are going to slip through the cracks and we are daily in the company of psychopaths and sociopaths. It has been proven that these people's complete lack of empathy and often higher than average IQs make them virtually undetectable. They are masters of deception because they have learned to mimic normal behavior just to interact on a daily basis. They would have no problems jumping through all the hoops you can imagine to arm themselves or do harm others.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

In 2017 there were 6880 gun related deaths in the US which a majority were Suicides.
Between July of 2016 to July of 2017 there were 66,972 drug overdose deaths in the US which a lot were from opioids. Many of these were also children.
So why so much more focus on guns than drugs?
Sounds like politics to me.
I believe both of these stats are horrible but one far and above takes more lives.

In 2016, there were more than 38,000 gun-related deaths in the U.S. — 4,000 more than 2015, the new CDC report on preliminary mortality data shows. Most gun-related deaths — about two-thirds —in America are suicides, but an Associated Press analysis of FBI data shows there were about 11,000 gun-related homicides in 2016, up from 9,600 in 2015. The increase in gun-related deaths follows a nearly 15-year period of relative stasis.


Not sure where you got your data.

[operator john]

Would Canadian style PAL (Possession Acquisition Licence) minimized these shootings?

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...-mass-shooters

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by operator john

Would Canadian style PAL (Possession Acquisition Licence) minimized these shootings?

No!

[Hawkeye]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/w...X&ocid=DELLDHP

Copy and paste into your browser
Only takes a couple of minutes to read and is worth the time.

[elkhunter11]

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...-mass-shooters

The story at the link is flawed, because it states that nobody in Canada can purchase a firearm without taking the course. That is not true, as some people were issued a PAL without taking the course. Some people with POLs were given a PAL without taking the course, in order to phase out the POL, and some native individuals were exempted from having to take the course to be granted a PAL.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

In 2016, there were more than 38,000 gun-related deaths in the U.S. — 4,000 more than 2015, the new CDC report on preliminary mortality data shows. Most gun-related deaths — about two-thirds —in America are suicides, but an Associated Press analysis of FBI data shows there were about 11,000 gun-related homicides in 2016, up from 9,600 in 2015. The increase in gun-related deaths follows a nearly 15-year period of relative stasis.


Not sure where you got your data.

I was only reading part of the year and not all of 2017 stats but I found a clearer site that shows the numbers better.
2017 there were 15,549 gun related deaths not including Suicides.
2016 there were 15,088 gun related deaths not including suicides.
2015 there were 13,510 gun related deaths not including suicides.
This information was found on the gun violence archive. Which brakes it down even further.
This is there Facebook address.
https://www.facebook.com/GunViolenceArchive/
It seems that with the extremely high amount of suicides and shootings committed by mentally ill individuls there needs to be more done about mental wellness and social funding so people can get the help they need.
There is a increasing amount of mental illness trending in the US which seems to align with the decay of society. Normalizing drug use, Broken families, high unemployment. Desensitizing from a myriad of violent movies and video games that have flooded the market, Sensationalizing crime, the political head games and race division from politicians and the media. The rate of added stress that a person experiences in the western society is astronomical compared to two decades ago.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

I was only reading part of the year and not all of 2017 stats but I found a clearer site that shows the numbers better.
2017 there were 15,549 gun related deaths not including Suicides.
2016 there were 15,088 gun related deaths not including suicides.
2015 there were 13,510 gun related deaths not including suicides.
This information was found on the gun violence archive. Which brakes it down even further.
This is there Facebook address.
https://www.facebook.com/GunViolenceArchive/
It seems that with the extremely high amount of suicides and shootings committed by mentally ill individuls there needs to be more done about mental wellness and social funding so people can get the help they need.
There is a increasing amount of mental illness trending in the US which seems to align with the decay of society. Normalizing drug use, Broken families, high unemployment. Desensitizing from a myriad of violent movies and video games that have flooded the market, Sensationalizing crime, the political head games and race division from politicians and the media. The rate of added stress that a person experiences in the western society is astronomical compared to two decades ago.

So these stresses are more or less the same across the developed world. What's the problem with the US that people seem to think they can walk into public places and open fire?

What's the difference between being US or Canadian that they have such an exponentially higher rate of gun violence?

Couldn't have anything to do with the availability or number of guns in the US could it?

[Supergrit]

This gun he used can it be purchased as restricted weapon in Chanda I think i it is ar 15

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So these stresses are more or less the same across the developed world. What's the problem with the US that people seem to think they can walk into public places and open fire?

What's the difference between being US or Canadian that they have such an exponentially higher rate of gun violence?

Couldn't have anything to do with the availability or number of guns in the US could it?

These stresses are not equal across the board as Canada has a better support system built into our healthcare system. Also Canada has less of a population especially urban population.
You are right that the US has two thirds more guns per capita. Do you think if mental instability was better taken care of that there would be less violence?
Or is it the gun that influences these people to murder?

[Supergrit]

Ever since columbine it seems the unstable are trying to out do each other by going out with a bigger bang more damage more death. I don’t know what changed I think media attention on shooter plays a big part.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

These stresses are not equal across the board as Canada has a better support system built into our healthcare system. Also Canada has less of a population especially urban population.
You are right that the US has two thirds more guns per capita. Do you think if mental instability was better taken care of that there would be less violence?
Or is it the gun that influences these people to murder?

So is it the lack of health care that's to blame? Maybe Obama care is the answer down there? Who knows.

I'm pretty sure if you have a person that's mentally unstable and they have free access to fire arms you're going to have a problem.

1 guy on a bus with a machete can cause a lot of havoc. One guy walking into a school with a gun a lot more.

I don't know what the answer is. I have friends in the States and they are sick about the lack of any kind of response. The lists out there about what's been changed nationally from single incidents is huge. This issue though ...... thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayer don't seem to stop bullets.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So these stresses are more or less the same across the developed world. What's the problem with the US that people seem to think they can walk into public places and open fire?

What's the difference between being US or Canadian that they have such an exponentially higher rate of gun violence?

Couldn't have anything to do with the availability or number of guns in the US could it?

Doubtful, we have a helluva lot of guns here too and nowhere near the deliberate shootings as the US. In fact we're so peaceful that the Canadian gun-grabbers have to reference US shootings or a 30 year old Canadian tragedy to push their phoney agenda.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So is it the lack of health care that's to blame? Maybe Obama care is the answer down there? Who knows.

I'm pretty sure if you have a person that's mentally unstable and they have free access to fire arms you're going to have a problem.

1 guy on a bus with a machete can cause a lot of havoc. One guy walking into a school with a gun a lot more.

I don't know what the answer is. I have friends in the States and they are sick about the lack of any kind of response. The lists out there about what's been changed nationally from single incidents is huge. This issue though ...... thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayer don't seem to stop bullets.

Obama care was a disappointment basically it was Romney care.
I think a universal healthcare system and a better education system would help a lot.
If there is no record of mental health issues or criminal activity by an individual how do you keep them from legally obtaining a fire arm?
So from what I gather you want all guns banned?
I’m not with you on that.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So is it the lack of health care that's to blame? Maybe Obama care is the answer down there? Who knows.

I'm pretty sure if you have a person that's mentally unstable and they have free access to fire arms you're going to have a problem.

1 guy on a bus with a machete can cause a lot of havoc. One guy walking into a school with a gun a lot more.

I don't know what the answer is. I have friends in the States and they are sick about the lack of any kind of response. The lists out there about what's been changed nationally from single incidents is huge. This issue though ...... thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayer don't seem to stop bullets.

Impaired driviing kills far more people here in Canada than firearms will, yet our government has really done nothing to eliminate impaired driving. Anyone of age can walk I to a liquor store or a bar to access alcohol, then get into their vehicle, and go out and kill an innocent family. Why not license all adults , and refuse to sell alcohol to anyone with a record of alcohol related issues? That would do at least as much good as licensing firearms owners. Why not build an interlock requiring a breath sample into every vehicle? That would do a lot to reduce impaired driving. And a total ban on alcohol would not only eliminate impaired driving, but it would also save the lives of people that die from other accidents or confrontations that result from alcohol abuse. So why are people so intent on firearms regulations, but will not consider more alcohol regulations, when regulations on alcohol consumption would save so many more lives?

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Doubtful, we have a helluva lot of guns here too and nowhere near the deliberate shootings as the US. In fact we're so peaceful that the Canadian gun-grabbers have to reference US shootings or a 30 year old Canadian tragedy to push their phoney agenda.

Why though? What's the big difference? Why do many shootings down there?

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Obama care was a disappointment basically it was Romney care.
I think a universal healthcare system and a better education system would help a lot.
If there is no record of mental health issues or criminal activity by an individual how do you keep them from legally obtaining a fire arm?
So from what I gather you want all guns banned?
I’m not with you on that.

I would agree with you on that to a certain extent. What about the people not interested in being educated?

I'm very much against all guns being banned. I own 8 guns. I enjoy them. I am for some forms of gun control. I like our system here.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

impaired driviing kills far more people here in canada than firearms will, yet our government has really done nothing to eliminate impaired driving. Anyone of age can walk i to a liquor store or a bar to access alcohol, then get into their vehicle, and go out and kill an innocent family. Why not license all adults , and refuse to sell alcohol to anyone with a record of alcohol related issues? That would do at least as much good as licensing firearms owners. Why not build an interlock requiring a breath sample into every vehicle? That would do a lot to reduce impaired driving. And a total ban on alcohol would not only eliminate impaired driving, but it would also save the lives of people that die from other accidents or confrontations that result from alcohol abuse. So why are people so intent on firearms regulations, but will not consider more alcohol regulations, when regulations on alcohol consumption would save so many more lives?

like

lc

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Impaired driviing kills far more people here in Canada than firearms will, yet our government has really done nothing to eliminate impaired driving. Anyone of age can walk I to a liquor store or a bar to access alcohol, then get into their vehicle, and go out and kill an innocent family. Why not license all adults , and refuse to sell alcohol to anyone with a record of alcohol related issues? That would do at least as much good as licensing firearms owners. Why not build an interlock requiring a breath sample into every vehicle? That would do a lot to reduce impaired driving. And a total ban on alcohol would not only eliminate impaired driving, but it would also save the lives of people that die from other accidents or confrontations that result from alcohol abuse. So why are people so intent on firearms regulations, but will not consider more alcohol regulations, when regulations on alcohol consumption would save so many more lives?

I looked it up. In Canada in 2013 1500 people died from drunk driving. Last year 15000 people from guns in the US. I get what you're trying to do but it's not the same fight.

They do license adults to drive .... or do you not have one? They take your license away when you have a record of offenses Elk. They lowered the limit to try and combat it. You don't remember the thread?

The facts of the matter are we do a hell of a lot more to fight drunk driving here than they do to fight mass shootings in the US.