The old F-15 Eagle is 'Reborn' as the F-15EX Eagle II ❗

[Selkirk]

.

F-15EX Eagle II

The new and improved F-15 Eagle 👉 https://www.businessinsider.com/air-...ircraft-2021-4

Maybe Canada should buy a few ❓❗

Selkirk

[57charlie]

It’s taken our government 20 or more years for them to decide that our air force needs new fighters. It’ll take take another 15 to decide which fighter to buy. Then it’ll take another 10 to figure out how we’re going to pay for them.

[muirsy]

Originally Posted by 57charlie

It’s taken our government 20 or more years for them to decide that our air force needs new fighters. It’ll take take another 15 to decide which fighter to buy. Then it’ll take another 10 to figure out how we’re going to pay for them.

Lol sad, hilarious, and true all at the same time!

[Selkirk]

.
Something the article (see Post #1) doesn't explain . . .

Why are they building more new F-15's (1970's technology) to supplement their airforce, when they could just have more Super Hornets (1990's technology) built ❓

It don't make sense to me.

Selkirk

[Reeves1]

And number 1 on the NDP list is to end all Military in Kanukistan

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

.
Something the article (see Post #1) doesn't explain . . .

Why are they building more new F-15's (1970's technology) to supplement their airforce, when they could just have more Super Hornets (1990's technology) built ❓

It don't make sense to me.

Selkirk

Good question - I am guessing the answer is they can buy 30 of these for the price of one F35 or YF22 and they do 90% of the stuff the other two do.

You do not need advanced stealth capability on domestic patrol, for training and in many (maybe most) theaters of operation. These also carry more, are cheaper to fix, maybe have more fuel range, etc...

I dunno

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by EZM

Good question - I am guessing the answer is they can buy 30 of these for the price of one F35 or YF22 and they do 90% of the stuff the other two do.

You do not need advanced stealth capability on domestic patrol, for training and in many (maybe most) theaters of operation. These also carry more, are cheaper to fix, maybe have more fuel range, etc...

I dunno

I agree.
If we get into a conflict it’s likely going to be like our mission in Afghanistan where updated F-15/F-18’s are entirely adequate.
The country’s with 5th Gen fighters are Russia and China.
Hate to say it but if we get in a ****ing contest with them we’re done before the airplanes get off the ground anyways.

[Tannerdog]

Maybe Sparkle Socks can by us some good used 40 year old F-15s. Seems to be the pattern.....

[57charlie]

The article explains quite clearly why they're going with a newer version of the F15. That thing is a stable killing platform & can pretty much take on any role the air force sees fit. It's got an exceptional combat record.

Continous upgrades to avionics, computers & software along with structural improvements have extended its ability to operate in todays environment. If I'm not mistaken it was an F-15 back in the mid 1980's that was used once to take out a satellite in space.

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

From the article:

"F-15EX fighters were a much more cost-effective option for quickly modernizing the F-15 fleet to maintain capacity"

In other words they see the F35 is not and will not meet the expectations that where so heavily promoted as the all-in-one aircraft.

The US doesn't really have much of a fleet of aircraft dedicated to air superiority as they once did.

Though they still have the F22 which are dwindling in numbers, less than 200 where produced until the Obama administration cancelled production, probably because the Chinese told him they weren't a threat.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Cross Eyed Cowboy

From the article:

"F-15EX fighters were a much more cost-effective option for quickly modernizing the F-15 fleet to maintain capacity"

In other words they see the F35 is not and will not meet the expectations that where so heavily promoted as the all-in-one aircraft.

The US doesn't really have much of a fleet of aircraft dedicated to air superiority as they once did.

Though they still have the F22 which are dwindling in numbers, less than 200 where produced until the Obama administration cancelled production, probably because the Chinese told him they weren't a threat.

The F35's and F22's can handle the air dominance roles, but based on cost the US can't afford a huge inventory of new F35s (and of course the F22 production has ceased). A reliable workhorse is needed, the F-15 is still very capable and with the upgrades will still be relevant.

With an aggressive China emerging, I'm concerned with how under-equipped Canada has become at the hands of successive Liberal administrations. Military equipment is equipment you need to have in inventory with your pilots, sailors and soldiers well-trained with before you need it.

I'd like to see us with all manner of new air power, even if some of it is these F-15's (last I checked, they remain undefeated in air combat and one even returned to base flying with an entire wing missing!). I'd like to see Canadian Apache (or equivalent) attack helicopters, drones capable of attack, 3 LHD's for the RCN and some F35's & drones to fly from them, triple our pending Type 26 frigate order as my LHD's will require escort vessels, 3 more supply ships and to even launch a few military satellites with fricking laser beams

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

With an aggressive China emerging, I'm concerned with how under-equipped Canada has become at the hands of successive Liberal administrations. Military equipment is equipment you need to have in inventory with your pilots, sailors and soldiers well-trained with before you need it.

China is not emerging its already here, but none the less well said.

As for aircraft, I'm pretty sure the replacement for the current F18 will the the F18 Super Hornet. My assumption is based on the similarities of the current F18 and F18 Super Hornet with regards to flight characteristics, mission profiles etc.

I personally don't beleive in the concept of an all in one aircraft so I think it would be wise for a dual fleet of F18 Super Hornet and F35. But that's dreaming!

Your Apache idea is an interesting idea.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Cross Eyed Cowboy

China is not emerging its already here, but none the less well said.

As for aircraft, I'm pretty sure the replacement for the current F18 will the the F18 Super Hornet. My assumption is based on the similarities of the current F18 and F18 Super Hornet with regards to flight characteristics, mission profiles etc.

I personally don't beleive in the concept of an all in one aircraft so I think it would be wise for a dual fleet of F18 Super Hornet and F35. But that's dreaming!

Your Apache idea is an interesting idea.

I know it’s dreaming, but I wish Canada was better equipped, and not just militarily. I always think back to WWII and how literally every industry in the nation pulled together for a common good, I just want us to have production independence so that we’re never beholding to other nations, such as how China has become such a bully with everyone, and they did so by saving the money that western nations have sent their way through maintaining trade deficits with them for decades. We should be able to make everything here at home, from vaccines to aircraft to ships to computer chips, even clothing and household appliances. Keeping production at home keeps the skills here as well as the facilities. Imagine some global conflict erupting and not only are we suddenly forced to equip our military on an emergency basis, but we have to first build and equip the factories to be able to build and equip ourselves for self defense! We could easily be on the losing side of a conflict during the time that would take; were it not for the certainty of our southern neighbor stepping in for our defense, we’d currently be a pretty tempting target.

While China has certainly already emerged, it’s foolish to think that they’ve finished that emergence.

I thought some LHD vessels could be justified to Liberals by noting how good they are for assisting foreign nations during natural disasters, just downplay the fact that their aircraft and landing craft can deliver a lot more than bottled water and food...

I’d like to see some infrastructure capacity added, like multiple dry-docks capable of handling the largest of warships on both coasts, and aircraft production capacity (with zero Bombardier involvement!). I am aware of some aircraft production pending for Calgary which will create some good jobs, though that will be the resumption of the production CL-415 & CL-515 water bombers. Despite being an older (though updated) aircraft design, this plant will still give skill sets to aircraft production workers. I don’t know the exact timeline of that plant opening, but from what I’ve read, new aircraft orders have been signed.

I realize these are all pipe dreams, and there is the irony that if we had all of this capacity we’d not be a target (speaking both economically and/or militarily) and that then the complaint would be that they money was wasted. It seems such an unfortunate pendulum effect, and that we’re pretty near the furthest reach of the swing to the left.

Maybe we could buy the A-10 production tooling from the USA? It seems their Congress is always looking to strangle that particular bird... The airframes would be new and proven, and new electronics suites could be added. Brrrrrt.

[Gray Wolf]

So why are they rehashing the old F-15, when the
more modern Super Hornet is still in production

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

.
Something the article (see Post #1) doesn't explain . . .

Why are they building more new F-15's (1970's technology) to supplement their airforce, when they could just have more Super Hornets (1990's technology) built ❓

It don't make sense to me.

Selkirk

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

So why are they rehashing the old F-15, when the
more modern Super Hornet is still in production

Why? Platform capability and U.S. Military Inter service rivalry; the FA-18 Super Hornet is designated a carrier-based, multi role fighter used by the Navy. Therefore, it cannot be co-opted by the Air Force.
Quick specs:
F-15 EX
Speed: Mach 2.5
Range, Combat radius: 1,100 miles
Ceiling: 60,000 ft
Load capacity: 29,500 lbs. on 9 stations. It can be configured to carry the 5,000 lb GBU-28

FA-18 Super Hornet
Speed: Mach 1.8+
Range, combat radius: 449 miles
Ceiling: 50,000 ft
Load capacity: 17,750 lbs. on 11 stations

F-35
Speed: Mach 1.6
Range, combat radius: 670 miles
Ceiling: 50,000 ft
Load capacity: 5,700 lbs in internal storage bays to maintain stealth capability. In "Beast Mode", it is supposed to be able to carry 22,000 lbs. on external mounts, which increase its radar signature, while likely reducing its operational combat radius.

According to the U.S. Air Force, the F-15 EX will have a lower hourly operating cost of <$27,000. This compares favourably to the F-35's estimated $35,000 hourly operating cost. (some reports state they have not hit this target number yet)
Also, F-15 EX will use most of the existing maintenance infrastructure for the existing F-15 fleet, further reducing start up costs.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...h-better-86061
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/f-15ex-vs-f-35a/
https://www.airforcemag.com/app/uplo...tical.v306.pdf

While the F-15 EX would be at a significant disadvantage against sophisticated opponents due to its lack of stealth technology, it is more than capable of handling patrol duties and combat roles, including close air support for ground forces.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by EZM

Good question - I am guessing the answer is they can buy 30 of these for the price of one F35 or YF22 and they do 90% of the stuff the other two do.

You do not need advanced stealth capability on domestic patrol, for training and in many (maybe most) theaters of operation. These also carry more, are cheaper to fix, maybe have more fuel range, etc...

I dunno

Kind of like Sherman tanks, not nearly as good as their opponents, but numbers ended up besting them.

Grizz

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

With an aggressive China emerging, I'm concerned with how under-equipped Canada has become at the hands of successive Liberal administrations. Military equipment is equipment you need to have in inventory with your pilots, sailors and soldiers well-trained with before you need it.

While Canada has always punched above our weight militarily I think the idea that a nation of 38 million would have even the slimmest of chances taking on one of 1.4 billion is simply absurd.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

While Canada has always punched above our weight militarily I think the idea that a nation of 38 million would have even the slimmest of chances taking on one of 1.4 billion is simply absurd.

Military history is full of accounts where vastly out numbered defenders held their own against superior forces. One could also surmise of those 1.4 billion you speak of how many will be malnourished and old not exactly prime specimens. Pray we never find out how that would end as many would die needlessly!

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

While Canada has always punched above our weight militarily I think the idea that a nation of 38 million would have even the slimmest of chances taking on one of 1.4 billion is simply absurd.

The assumptions you make are routinely absurd, so much so that I expect it, but this one is a doozy even for you. I was merely talking about military and production independence, not singlehandedly taking on the worlds most dominant manufacturing economy. I was also indirectly talking about not sending any more money their way. However, if the crap hit the fan, would not not be nice to contribute alongside our allies in a meaningful way? We all know if there was such an awful development, we'd certainly not be in it alone.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

The assumptions you make are routinely absurd, so much so that I expect it, but this one is a doozy even for you. I was merely talking about military and production independence, not singlehandedly taking on the worlds most dominant manufacturing economy. I was also indirectly talking about not sending any more money their way. However, if the crap hit the fan, would not not be nice to contribute alongside our allies in a meaningful way? We all know if there was such an awful development, we'd certainly not be in it alone.

It makes even less sense that way. Why would we build dry docks on both coasts for a Navy with 12 frigates? Especially when we have allies who already have significant ship building facilities. Or create an aircraft manufacturing industry when we live next door to the largest in the world and are 100 year allies of the second largest?

We need to figure out what we do the best and put our resources there. What’s the gap in NATO that we can fill better than anyone else? I don’t think it’s shipyards or aircraft manufacturing. Those are specialized heavy industries and we haven’t been going that way for a very long time.

[W921]

My impression is that in air to air combat or a dog fight is that the f 15 is still the best plane out there.
When Dave Rutherford was still on the air he had a Canadian F18 pilot for a guest and he sure was no fan of these stealth fighters for what we would be using them for.
He didn't see much value in them period for air to air combat. He saw them more for air to ground missions.

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Below is a link to an interesting site which offers some further insight/opinion on the debate surrounding Canada's fighter replacement.

https://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/

[W921]

I'm no pilot so take what I say with a grain of salt. My understanding is that for Canadian operations a twin engine jet that can be flown with one engine if necessary could be a big deal. Arctic conditions and our remoteness makes our needs a bit different than other Nations.

[sirmike68]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Military history is full of accounts where vastly out numbered defenders held their own against superior forces. One could also surmise of those 1.4 billion you speak of how many will be malnourished and old not exactly prime specimens. Pray we never find out how that would end as many would die needlessly!

With the Turd trying to take the guns away from all of the citizens we are totally defenseless anyways. Easy pickings.

[Okotok]

I've always found it to be incredible how Chinese developed fighters look pretty much exactly like those already out there.

[oilngas]

Okotoks; say it isn't so, you mean if you open the hood of the Chinese fighters and have a peek they are identical to "other" nations equipment!!!! That's absurd, that would mean they would copy a proven designs, steal secrets and other nasty stuff. Surely Justin's best pals would not do that!

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Okotok

I've always found it to be incredible how Chinese developed fighters look pretty much exactly like those already out there.

That's just a coincidence. Nobody on earth would think that China would copy anything.

As a completely unrelated aside, we should really get serious about ensuring that Huawei hardware gets incorporated into 5G communication networks throughout Canada, I hear that stuff is the bomb!

[GunnerySgtJackson]

Maybe Canada should buy a few ❓❗[/INDENT]

The pm just bought a couple new Challenger jets for the RCAF ......$100 million plus.....(gotta get to the carrib somehow, right!)
Looks expensive but please consider that around the same time they cancelled the midlife upgrades to the Cormorant SAR helicopter!
See how the budget can balance itself!

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Okotok

I've always found it to be incredible how Chinese developed fighters look pretty much exactly like those already out there.

They learned that through the Russian's Cold War methodology of "Innovation".

Just steal the plans and any technology research related to what you desire, make a few personal cosmetic changes to brand it your own and you save billions.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Cross Eyed Cowboy

Below is a link to an interesting site which offers some further insight/opinion on the debate surrounding Canada's fighter replacement.

https://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/

Thanks for that ☝ link ... there's some Very Good Reads there ❗ 👍🤠

Selkirk