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11-12-2019, 09:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 242
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Wildlife Certificate & Reduced Wait Times??
Would like someone to clarify how charging for a Wildlife Certificate with a draw application reduces wait times?
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11-12-2019, 09:48 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic
Would like someone to clarify how charging for a Wildlife Certificate with a draw application reduces wait times?
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I think the theory is, if I need to by a $28 wildlife certificate to enter draws I plan on 999ing and not drawing any time soon,I’ll be less likely to cough up the extra $28 and just wont enter the draw.
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11-12-2019, 09:53 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: calgary
Posts: 691
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I believe there are a bunch of animal rights people who flood the draw system and never intend on purchasing any tags. Alberta thinks if you have to purchase the certificate first it will be more money invested and I think they think the animal protection activists and people who don’t intend on hunting won’t invest that much money. I think they will. I don’t think it will change a thing. Maybe if the certificate was $100 it might thin out a few.
Last edited by raw outdoors; 11-12-2019 at 10:06 PM.
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11-12-2019, 10:17 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,522
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Been talk about pre pay your tags to deter the activists. Pay the wild life very and $40 per draw you put I. If your drawn they keep the $40 and if not they refund it.
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11-13-2019, 12:47 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,740
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So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!
So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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11-13-2019, 04:39 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 1,592
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Prepay should only take effect if you are drawn for the tag.
There is a problem with people never paying for their tag after they are drawn.
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11-13-2019, 04:48 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lloydminster
Posts: 4,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw outdoors
I believe there are a bunch of animal rights people who flood the draw system and never intend on purchasing any tags. Alberta thinks if you have to purchase the certificate first it will be more money invested and I think they think the animal protection activists and people who don’t intend on hunting won’t invest that much money. I think they will. I don’t think it will change a thing. Maybe if the certificate was $100 it might thin out a few.
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I believe your correct on your thinking, but I think it will deter some of the people that enter draws with no intention of hunting unless they get drawn, the activists will still carry on as long as someone else is paying the shot, given that about 40% of all fees end up in the conservation pool it's a good thing.
The only people that complain about this is the people that are in the 28% that apply for tags and don't buy a licence unless they get drawn, and those that enter the wife, mother, mother in law etc. none of which actually hunt but do go for a ride the year they get drawn, we all know someone like that, if it takes them 6 years to get mommy a tag they will have invested about $200 each, for the rest of us that actually purchase a hunting license every year weather we get drawn or not it doesn't change a thing or add a penny to our cost, we just pay it in June instead of September.
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The problem we have today is that the people who work for a living are outnumbered by the people who vote for a living.
We were all born ignorant but one must work very hard to remain that way.
Last edited by waldedw; 11-13-2019 at 04:58 AM.
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11-13-2019, 06:16 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,586
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It’s no big deal in my eyes, back before WIN cards and the internet, you had to have your Wildlife Certificate, in order to enter draws, heck you had to mail your draws in with a cheque in the envelope incase you were drawn.
If it knocks 5% to 10% of the I hardly ever buy a hunting licence “unless” crowd out of the draw pool, I say good, if it dissuades the abusers or antis even just a little bit, I’m all for it.
If the Govt was serious about wait times, just roll out a practical shooting test like they do in the Scandinavian countries...........
That’d set back the “old lady”, and “old ladies” mother’s applications big time.
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There are no absolutes
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11-13-2019, 06:22 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper
So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!
So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.
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How many people will only apply for a draw, and will not hunt birds or big game with over the counter tags?
Quote:
Prepay should only take effect if you are drawn for the tag.
There is a problem with people never paying for their tag after they are drawn.
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That would be the best idea, it would keep people from applying for tags that they don't really want.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-13-2019, 06:58 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elk eater
Been talk about pre pay your tags to deter the activists. Pay the wild life very and $40 per draw you put I. If your drawn they keep the $40 and if not they refund it.
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I think it was Colorado (?) that used to do this, problem was the admin costs of refunds made it impossible to continue. They went to a style similar to ours, and the application rate went up massively. No easy answers.
I do think that if you draw, you should be automatically charged for that tag.
The wildlife certificate is something all hunters buy every year so hopefully it’ll deter the guys who are putting in for their wife, mom, uncle etc. Not sure how many antihunters apply, but if we make more off them then great - I doubt it’ll change their behavior though, they tend to be well funded.
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“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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11-13-2019, 07:14 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
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Sadly there are only a few ways in which to lower wait times, only a few of which are beneficial to the plan.
Note: These are the available options how I see it and I don’t necessarily agree with each point below!
Strict residency requirements to be able to enter our draws
Strict residency requirements to be able to hunt
Give out more tags
Add more animals to hunt (not happening)
Split the draws based on weapon choice, can only choose 1 option to enter
Close up loopholes people use to enter draws and do not use the tags themselves
Make tags and draws cost more to eliminate some participation.
Limit how many draws one person can enter each year
Make all stakeholders take a reduction in allotment the years number are down
Change the hunter host, in that for whatever species drawn it becomes a partner tag instead of making it so everyone (host and hosted) must hold their own tag.
Make a portion of the high priority tags a straight lottery, you can enter the priority or the lottery not both
These are the options I see available.
LC
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11-13-2019, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper
So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!
So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.
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How many people will fit into this situation of building points for 15 years without ever hunting anything else? Also, if buying a wildlife certificate first is a way to enforce the resident of Alberta requirement, and can now block non-residents from applying for draws as if they were residents, and discourages animal rights activist from putting in for as many draws, you may find that it will no longer be a 15 year wait. The extra $28.22 collected from every hunting participant per year has a portion that goes to fund conservation resources. Every hunter that hunts anything each year will see no difference.
And a non-resident tag + outfitter cost for non-resident antelope hunt = in the ballpark of $3500 to $5500 depending on the outfitter, so you are still ahead of the competition with the $500 accumulated fee.
Last edited by Nyksta; 11-13-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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11-13-2019, 07:53 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rocky Mnt House
Posts: 932
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I think strict residency requirements is a first.
Must be here 12 months before being able to hunt.(exception is military or LEO)
Must show alberta drivers licence and alberta health card to buy tags or enter draws.
Must put in credit card info when applying for draws and you are automatically charged if you are drawn?
Make application fee $10.00 per draw, it is not that high, but high enough to discourage people from just randomly putting in for draws that they never intend to hunt for.
No non resident tags(outfitter tags) for any animal that takes more than 2 years for a resident to draw.
Just my 2 cents
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11-13-2019, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,639
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Seems to me Saskatchewan has the right idea on how to run things and who can hunt...take care of their residents first
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“If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month.”
—Theodore Roosevelt
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11-13-2019, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,522
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Had the opportunity to hunt with a couple of guys from North Dakota a few years back. They were both in their sixties and had been applying for a Moose draw in their home state for over 25 years and were never drawn. They had Become quite successful with their hardware store when the oil and gas frac picked up down their and decided to come to Alberta to fulfill their dream of harvesting a moose. I spent two days with them hunting and they both filled their moose tags. I don’t remember ever seeing American Hunters so happy and the biggest smiles ever. They were so excited that their dream had come true and it was great to be a part of it.
This experience was a real eye opener for me and the current state of our draw system. I have two young boys and began to fear that they may never get the opportunity to hunt moose or would be well into their 20s before ever drawing a tag. It was at that point I made the commitment to save my priority for my boys and partner them on my license. I am currently a priority 10 for bull moose and my father is a 9. I have 999 my draw for the last 6 years as to save it for them. My oldest will turn 12 late next Oct and I plan to hunt Nov till we are successful in filling it for him.
I really fear where this draw system is headed. At the current rate I could realistically see my boys only drawing a handful of Moose tags in their life time and their children maybe never. The partner tag is a great idea but I feel it is a temporary fix that will eventually also be back logged as it does not keep people from applying with the 999 to increase priority.
I really don’t see any sort of fix as population in Alberta increases. To compare us to Sask is useless as our population is 3 million more than theirs. The sad reality is we need less people or hunters to reduce the priorities. Anything else is just a bandaid.
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11-13-2019, 11:11 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Sadly there are only a few ways in which to lower wait times, only a few of which are beneficial to the plan.
Note: These are the available options how I see it and I don’t necessarily agree with each point below!
Strict residency requirements to be able to enter our draws
Strict residency requirements to be able to hunt
Give out more tags
Add more animals to hunt (not happening)
Split the draws based on weapon choice, can only choose 1 option to enter
Close up loopholes people use to enter draws and do not use the tags themselves
Make tags and draws cost more to eliminate some participation.
Limit how many draws one person can enter each year
Make all stakeholders take a reduction in allotment the years number are down
Change the hunter host, in that for whatever species drawn it becomes a partner tag instead of making it so everyone (host and hosted) must hold their own tag.
Make a portion of the high priority tags a straight lottery, you can enter the priority or the lottery not both
These are the options I see available.
LC
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You missed one more that would increase the quotas substantially IMO and decrease priority levels. But that would involve all citizens of Alberta to be considered equal opportunity residents and it’s not politically correct to suggest such changes this day in age.
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11-13-2019, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,902
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They should increase draw entry prices to at least the cost of loaded round. Then triple the prices of antlered tags.
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11-14-2019, 10:50 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 31
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Seems everyone is onboard with increased price (within reason) and maybe this wildlife purchase will help as well.
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11-14-2019, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
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I think it’s going to have to happen in stages.
I see minimum and strict residency requirements being a first step. Also hunter host partnership would be another. Also species like moose/antelope/sheep things that are in excess of 5 years to draw should be eliminated for nonresidents to enter.
LC
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11-14-2019, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 767
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I dont mind paying for my certificate but if I am drawn and plan to hunt but life happens as in I cannot hunt that fall I should not have to pay for my tag up front. It sucks I wasted priority for that draw but in the end it is what it is.
Gbuss
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11-14-2019, 12:07 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbuss
I dont mind paying for my certificate but if I am drawn and plan to hunt but life happens as in I cannot hunt that fall I should not have to pay for my tag up front. It sucks I wasted priority for that draw but in the end it is what it is.
Gbuss
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If you kept someone else from drawing, why shouldn't you pay for the tag? Your attitude is the reason so many people apply for every tag they can, and why so many tags are drawn , but not purchased.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-14-2019, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
The wildlife certificate is something all hunters buy every year so hopefully it’ll deter the guys who are putting in for their wife, mom, uncle etc.
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Family applications in the hope someone gets drawn will certainly be more costly now!
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11-14-2019, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
I think it’s going to have to happen in stages.
I see minimum and strict residency requirements being a first step. Also hunter host partnership would be another. Also species like moose/antelope/sheep things that are in excess of 5 years to draw should be eliminated for nonresidents to enter.
LC
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Good job lefty , i agree ..maybe a few of the powers that be should read some of the ideas put forth in this thread ...as for activists still putting in and taking tags at least they would finally be paying something toward conservation ...anything is more than they do now.
Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
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11-15-2019, 09:01 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,257
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From the 2019 Regs under Propoded Changes:
...Beginning in spring of 2020, in order to reduce draw wait times and encourage draw applicants to actively hunt in the upcoming season, hunters must purchase a Wildlife Certificate prior to applying for a special licence draw. Currently, approximately 25% of draw applicants do not purchase their Wildlife Certificates for the year of application, which, depending on the type of draw, may increase draw wait times.…
Not sure how many of the 25% applicants who do not buy a wildlife certificate are "antis",,, but I suspect there are lot more "significant others" and other family members in this number than "antis". Reducing "bulk family" applications should help.
If we assume that tag allotments are going to not change significantly,,,at the end of the day the best way to reduce draw times is to reduce the number of applications being made annually. We may need to look at caps on how many applications an individual can make in any given year.
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11-15-2019, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,553
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Increase application costs. $3.00 to enter a draw is ridiculous. Make it $30.00. Then people have to selective
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11-15-2019, 09:19 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,842
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Strict residency requirements, and charging for all tags drawn , will reduce the number of applicants, and reduce draw waits. It will eliminate the people that don't actually live here, and it will stop people from applying for tags that they aren't serious about. Make people provide their Alberta Health Care number and require them to have held it for at least six months prior to the draw dates, in order to qualify as a resident. And having to commit $40-$50, when you apply for a draw, will prevent people from applying for five or six draws if they aren't serious about going. Increasing the application fee to $30--$50 , makes no sense, as a person would have to pay out $400-$600 to draw some of the tags that take 10-15 years to draw.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-17-2019, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 242
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prevent the family???
seems to me some pretty selfish and short sighted logic here. If the old guard doesn't encourage the "family" then how does the Outdoor community expect to continue to have a voice when it comes to all things outdoors. We are loosing numbers, we are loose access to land, we are at best considered third in the list of priorities behind Conservation and Treaties. We are already the only user group that pays to use the resource and the only user group that is policed. If someone's wife 999s a draw, that means she isn't in that year's draw so she isn't taking any opportunity away from the current draw year. If she only hunts one species once every third year why should that household be charged for a WC for a person that has stated they are not going to hunt that year?
As far as the Antis hijacking the draw system? Well why do we allow these groups to declare charitable status and thus use tax free donations to push political agendas?
I don't understand why instead of fixing an issue we decide to penalize legitimate Outdoors people? Just because someone doesn't hunt every species, nor hunts every year doesn't mean they are expendable. We need to stop shooting one another and fix the real issues. Amazing that the only thing we can ever consider is to make things more difficult for the fringe members of our own group. I have an idea why not make it that you can't enter draws until minimum age 20, and have to forfeit draws after 65, and can only enter parkland draws if your handicap in someway (after all how would a handicap person access the Mountains??) I'm being extreme of course. Point is we need to start encouraging those on the fringe if we don't we will continue to loose hunting opportunities. Us die hards are nothing but a cash cow to the bureaucrats. We need more numbers to really matter.
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11-17-2019, 08:51 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
If the Govt was serious about wait times, just roll out a practical shooting test like they do in the Scandinavian countries...........
That’d set back the “old lady”, and “old ladies” mother’s applications big time.
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And more than likely a VERY large number of regular hunters as well!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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11-17-2019, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 242
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draw caps??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikebreath
From the 2019 Regs under Propoded Changes:
...Beginning in spring of 2020, in order to reduce draw wait times and encourage draw applicants to actively hunt in the upcoming season, hunters must purchase a Wildlife Certificate prior to applying for a special licence draw. Currently, approximately 25% of draw applicants do not purchase their Wildlife Certificates for the year of application, which, depending on the type of draw, may increase draw wait times.…
Not sure how many of the 25% applicants who do not buy a wildlife certificate are "antis",,, but I suspect there are lot more "significant others" and other family members in this number than "antis". Reducing "bulk family" applications should help.
If we assume that tag allotments are going to not change significantly,,,at the end of the day the best way to reduce draw times is to reduce the number of applications being made annually. We may need to look at caps on how many applications an individual can make in any given year.
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So your proposal is that we not be allow in the same year to both enter a moose draw and say an elk draw???
I trust we all understand that a 999 means that person is not stress not in the draw. Meaning they are not affecting the wait time. When they finally do draw their priority 15 and your priority 3 are both worth only one tag each one animal each. So if you watch the draw stats on Mywildalberta you can predict with relative certainty went your level of priority will draw a tag. So if it requires a 3 and a 15 puts in that year, it means the person with 15 has waisted roughly 12 years of points which would be the equivalent of roughly 4 tags more that your 3 point rotation was able to pull. So if you watch those stats and appropriately rotate your draw you pull 4-5 tags where the 15 point person only pulled one tag. The use of 999 doesn't change anything for those of us who plan to hunt and consequently enter a draw.
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11-17-2019, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake
Increase application costs. $3.00 to enter a draw is ridiculous. Make it $30.00. Then people have to selective
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Every year? Even for draws taking over 10 years ?
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The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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