Another Police Shooting That Will Cause Riots

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

What do you think the likelihood of him getting shot would be if, if the exact same scenario unfolded, but he was a 20 year old young white male? Or female for that matter? Honestly?

It happens regularly, but because it doesn't meet the activist agenda, goes to the bottom of the third page. Grizz

Well, I think that there would be far less chance of her getting shot. Can you provide links to instances of white women getting shot during a traffic stop?

A study by Harvard found clear racial disparities in the Massachusetts justice system starting from the ground up. Of course, the fact that the study was done by a university will raise objections so I'd like to see how many white people are shot for traffic offences compared to people of colour.

I understand how the incident in question could have gone down. I also understand Fordtruckin's points. However, I wonder how forum members would react if the next time they are stopped for speeding or a rolling stop they found themselves looking down the barrel of a loaded gun.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by sk270

Did you see the video of the two police officers pointing their pistols at a US Army Lieutenant (in uniform) who they stopped because they didn't see the new vehicle registration sticker on his back window? He had both arms out the window because he was scared of the cops. They threatened him, aimed their pistols at him and pepper sprayed him.

Do you really think that this would have happened to a white guy, especially if he was wearing a suit and tie?

I agree that the case in question in this thread might be an unfortunate mistake. However, it's easy to see why people of colour are so upset.

Post 60 says it all

[Ackleyman]

12.6 % of the US population are Black people. They commit over 50 % of violent crime. A police officer is 18.5 % more likely to be killed by a black man then a black man is to be killed by a police officer.
I do not condone a presumed innocent man , black or white , getting killed by police but good chance if you do not resist and get stupid putting yourself in that type of situation you would probably be ok.

Some might want to think about the 48 US officers shot to death in 2020

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by jwelds191

I find this post/comment very ironic, considering it is on a message board where we post daily about our rights and freedoms being infringed by overstepping provincial and federal jurisdictions and entities.

You can't tell me you don't see the conflict that is perpetuated daily on the basis of race, moreso in the US, but in Canada as well. I've seen discrimination on the basis of race on AO posts before.

What do you think the likelihood of him getting shot would be if, if the exact same scenario unfolded, but he was a 20 year old young white male? Or female for that matter? Honestly?

I don't have a problem doing what I'm told by a police officer. I have a problem with being shot with a pistol if I don't comply. I bet you 10/10 times, if I was in that driver's seat, I wouldn't of suffered the same fate as that young man solely on the basis that I am white.

Some stats for you. US 2017-2020

Race # of people shot and killed by police.
Year 2017. 2018. 2019. 2020
White 457 399 370 457
Black 223 209 235 241


For those who think this is systemic racism, you are what's wrong with the world.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by tri777

A good take on the entirety of the situation..

Cop Speaks Out About Army Lieutenant Nazario's Case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7qtzLeWn4g

I watched the video and it supports most of my opinions about why the first officer should have been fired and the second officer reprimanded.

One million dollars seems excessive.

The officer speaking in the cited video disputes the legality of the temporary tag in the back window of the SUV. A number of news media say that it was a legal tag. I don't know how to resolve this. I was assuming that the two cops let the Lieutenant go because they realized that they had no grounds for the stop in the first place because he had the tag. Such tags are legal in Saskatchewan but I have no idea about Virginia laws.

Why are people in the US, especially people of colour, reluctant to stop for police officers unless they are in a well-lit, high traffic area? I have received that advice myself when visiting the US and I am a white, middle-aged male. I believe that the police in the video acknowledged that this is expected behaviour when they try to stop people of colour.

The speaker in the cited video says that the cop should not have told the Lieutenant that he should be scared. But the cop did. That is threatening behaviour by a man with a gun. The speaker acknowledges the Lieutenants "reasonable fear". Why does the officer in the cited video believe this is true? I suggest it is because he knows the likelihood of a black man being shot during a traffic stop.

I missed the part where the officer answered the Lieutenant when he asked what he had done wrong. I think that's a reasonable question and answering it might have helped calm things down a bit. As opposed to saying something about "ride the lightning".

The officer in the video talks about how it is legal to pepper spray the driver, toss him onto the ground and handcuff him. Okay. I agree it is legal. However, it is totally unreasonable. I do not think the average person reading this would agree that it would be reasonable to be treated just like this if stopped by the RCMP for a missing license plate.

I agree that the video presents a good take on the situation. We can't tell whether or not the cops had a reason to stop the vehicle in the first place. They wouldn't tell Nazario why he was being stopped. They pointed guns at him. They threatened him. They told him he should be scared. They knew that was why he was hesitant to obey their instructions. They pepper sprayed him, knocked him down and handcuffed him. They let him go because they had no reason to stop him in the first place. One of them was fired because of his unprofessional conduct.

This is just one more example of incidents that reinforce the fear of the police that people of colour have in the US.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by sk270

"..This is just one more example of incidents that reinforce the fear of
the
police that people of colour have in the US.. "

Just be aware, Lieutenant Nazario 'did' have the opportunity, but chose to drive past a well lit gas station
prior to this gas station, where this vid takes place/a mile later..sure would raise yet more red flags
on the situation if I was on duty that night.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by JDK71

Post 60 says it all

I agree. The officer in the cited video tells us all the things that the officers did wrong when they made the traffic stop of Lt. Nazario.

It is unfortunate that these kinds of individuals are walking around in uniform with loaded guns. It damages public opinion about all the good police officers, that is the vast majority, in both Canada and the United States.

I suggest that this is why so many are not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the officer who shot Daunte Wright. We have all those aphorisms about one bad apple and so on, and that is happening here.

Certain highly-publicized cases of bad police behaviour lead too many people to assume that the police are always in the wrong when someone gets shot.

As soon as the question of a person's race or ethnicity is involved, it seems that it becomes difficult to examine the situation without emotion or misplaced generalization.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Some stats for you. US 2017-2020

Race # of people shot and killed by police.
Year 2017. 2018. 2019. 2020
White 457 399 370 457
Black 223 209 235 241


For those who think this is systemic racism, you are what's wrong with the world.

I don't think that your raw data demonstrates systemic racism. I guess that makes me what is right with the world. However, if 15% of the US population is black why does your last column have 35% black people? There are many more factors involved.

On the other hand, the Harvard University study is suggestive that systemic racism exists, at least in Massachusetts (https://hls.harvard.edu/content/uplo...port-FINAL.pdf).

Certainly, this is a complex question with no easy answers.

[tri777]

Things can get messy in a nano second when choosing to jump back into cars..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPPX78vGZ_4

[sk270]

Originally Posted by tri777

Just be aware, Lieutenant Nazario 'did' have the opportunity, but chose to drive past a well lit gas station
prior to this gas station, where this vid takes place/a mile later..sure would raise yet more red flags
on the situation if I was on duty that night.

I'm not trying to disagree, but I'd appreciate a reference for his driving past the first gas station. I haven't seen it and it would make a difference.

I assume, however, that you work in Canada. Even the two officers in the Nazario incident state that it is common in the US for drivers of colour to continue to a well-lit area before stopping. It wouldn't occur to me to do so in Canada but I have been told that it is a good idea in the US.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by sk270

".. I'd appreciate a reference for his driving past the first gas station. I haven't
seen it and it would make a difference..

Reference @ 21:47 - 22:25
(my mistake, it was a mile & a half he went before stopping)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5KZSADDhg

Originally Posted by sk270

" ..It wouldn't occur to me to do so in Canada.."

Lol, yup, me neither,
Night or day, don't matter to me where I get pulled over whether lit or dark on any road/highway.
I always pull over asap at the very next road approach/driveway, then pull in/park in a way that allows
some extra room for cop to get off the road also behind me, to keep him from getting rear ended.

[sk270]

[QUOTE=tri777;4361104]

Originally Posted by sk270

".. I'd appreciate a reference for his driving past the first gas station. I haven't
seen it and it would make a difference.

Reference @ 21:47 - 22:25
(my mistake, it was a mile & a half he went before stopping)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5KZSADDhg



Lol, yup, me neither,
Night or day, don't matter to me where I get pulled over whether lit or dark on any road/highway.
I always pull over asap at the very next road approach/driveway, then pull in/park in a way that allows
some extra room for cop to get off the road also behind me, to keep him from getting rear ended.

That's what I do too. However, in the US I've been told to do what Nazario did. And the officers expected it because they knew he'd be scared as a black guy. Makes me glad I live here. Of course, there are a lot of other things that make me happy to be in Saskatchewan. I'd choose Alberta or Manitoba next .

[tri777]

Nazario claimed he felt unsafe/didn't know if it was a legit cop that he was dealing with,
and needed a required 'safe' lit spot right?

Now watch him caught in his lie @21:00 - 21:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5KZSADDhg
Lol :
"I saw you before you turned"
He "Knew" it was a cop !

[JDK71]

wow and all he had to do is pull over . I wonder if that is how he acks when serving his country

[sk270]

Originally Posted by tri777

Nazario claimed he felt unsafe/didn't know if it was a legit cop that he was dealing with,
and needed a required 'safe' lit spot right?

Now watch him caught in his lie @21:00 - 21:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5KZSADDhg
Lol :
"I saw you before you turned"
He "Knew" it was a cop !

I didn't watch the video, not yet, but the people I talked to in the states were scared of legitimate police. They were not considering fake cops.

[Bergerboy]

Why the hell did Nazario keep denying the officers request? He keeps going off about he is a veteran and figures he is above the law.

[Ken07AOVette]

Double tap.

Equal opportunity employers forced into this by liberal thinking rule makers quite often find out the janitor is not a good goalie and a little girl.is not always the best at hand to hand combat with people that can throw her around like a ragdoll

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Sad gentlemen...

Expound.

I just cant wait to hear your reasoning on why it is better to send a 135lb girl into situations that test big burly men. Remember they are not all Rhonda Rousey or Ming Na Wen.
A trained man likely could/would have had him on his face in the pavement quicker than she pulled her equalizer.

[jwelds191]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Some stats for you. US 2017-2020

Race # of people shot and killed by police.
Year 2017. 2018. 2019. 2020
White 457 399 370 457
Black 223 209 235 241


For those who think this is systemic racism, you are what's wrong with the world.

You do realize that "Black" people are a huge minority (in terms of population, I feel the need to add) in America, right? And what constitutes "White" in the data you provided? Does it include people of Latino, Asian, Polynesian etc. descent, or is it strictly Caucasians? Can you provide a link to the data you pulled, so we can legitimize your data set?

If you wish to stand on a podium and tell yourself, and other like minded individuals, that systemic racism does NOT exist, no one can tell you not to. But do know that that kind of wilful ignorance is what stands in the way of progress in society, and is one of the main catalysts and reasons why we are witnessing the riots and uprisings in the US today.

[hilt134]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Each on the same hip everyday and to mix them up in the heat of the moment is pretty big.
Perhaps she needs to be re evaluated on how she handles high pressure situations. I’m sure she will.
A bad mistake none the less.
However there is no room for mistakes when firearms are involved.

It looks like a bit more than being re evaluated. She’s probably facing involuntary manslaughter and never being a cop agian.

I think the bigger question here is one the accountability of the police, if it wherent for the potential for even larger social unrest would we ever of heard about it? This is actually a good response from the cops, open with information and handing the investigation to another source. Personally without the riots and protest I think it would of been quietly handled internally and brushed under the table as much as possible.

Also for the few black and white opinions. If the Lethbridge police service had shot that storm trooper would it have been her fault? They claimed she was not responding fast enough. Same with the ice skater in Calgary. He wasn’t listening to the cops. He was also resisting arrest. The cop wanted to taser him and if she had pulled out her gun and killed him would it of been his fault? Both moments no real accountability was shown.

I do not agree with rioting and looting but I do believe some good will come from it. cops are going to start being a lot more careful in how they do their jobs, more bad cops will be weeded out, and a level of accountability will be set. Here’s an unpopular opinion the people who say “he shouldn’t of resisted, end of story” you are a contributing factor to the rioting. Your inability to concede that there may of been an ounce of racism, prejudice, corruption, or negligence involved actually fuels rioting. You won’t accept dialogue or compromise so they are giving you the other option, force

[tri777]

Originally Posted by hilt134

"..if it weren't for the potential for even larger social unrest
would we ever of heard
about it?.. .."without the riots and protests, I think it would of been quietly handled internally and brushed under the table as much as possible.

Your right, nearly the same story unfolds 2ys ago, barely a peep..

cop shoots man, mistakes gun for taser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_KDyN2HfsU

[sk270]

Originally Posted by tri777

Your right, nearly the same story unfolds 2ys ago, barely a peep..

cop shoots man, mistakes gun for taser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_KDyN2HfsU

I could infer that you are applauding the BLM and similar movements for bringing these incidents to greater public attention. But I'm not sure that's what you mean.

[Ken07AOVette]

Has anyone else seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=202593601369342

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by jwelds191

You do realize that "Black" people are a huge minority (in terms of population, I feel the need to add) in America, right? And what constitutes "White" in the data you provided? Does it include people of Latino, Asian, Polynesian etc. descent, or is it strictly Caucasians? Can you provide a link to the data you pulled, so we can legitimize your data set?

If you wish to stand on a podium and tell yourself, and other like minded individuals, that systemic racism does NOT exist, no one can tell you not to. But do know that that kind of wilful ignorance is what stands in the way of progress in society, and is one of the main catalysts and reasons why we are witnessing the riots and uprisings in the US today.

White is white. Strictly Caucasian.
Some peoples wilful ignorance allows for the justification of illegal looting and rioting which puts innocent peoples lives at risk. 25 people died during the roiting last summer.
You call that progress?? I'd call that a step just before being a Neanderthal.

[270person]

Originally Posted by jwelds191

You do realize that "Black" people are a huge minority (in terms of population, I feel the need to add) in America, right? And what constitutes "White" in the data you provided? Does it include people of Latino, Asian, Polynesian etc. descent, or is it strictly Caucasians? Can you provide a link to the data you pulled, so we can legitimize your data set?

If you wish to stand on a podium and tell yourself, and other like minded individuals, that systemic racism does NOT exist, no one can tell you not to. But do know that that kind of wilful ignorance is what stands in the way of progress in society, and is one of the main catalysts and reasons why we are witnessing the riots and uprisings in the US today.

You're asking him to quantify his numbers? Big ask.

[rjlester]

While this is a humorous look at how not to get into trouble with the police, it has some good points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Has anyone else seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=202593601369342

And of course it’s not there anymore...

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by sk270

A study by Harvard found clear racial disparities in the Massachusetts justice system starting from the ground up. Of course, the fact that the study was done by a university will raise objections so I'd like to see how many white people are shot for traffic offences compared to people of colour.

I'd like to see the stats on how people who, upon being pulled over, trying to get back in there car and drive off/ram the police, resist, etc.

I don't follow the news really closely, but I've never heard of an on duty officer just up and shooting someone, white or black, who was doing as requested.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

And of course it’s not there anymore...

oh wow that didn't take long!

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by jwelds191

I find this post/comment very ironic, considering it is on a message board where we post daily about our rights and freedoms being infringed by overstepping provincial and federal jurisdictions and entities.

You can't tell me you don't see the conflict that is perpetuated daily on the basis of race, moreso in the US, but in Canada as well. I've seen discrimination on the basis of race on AO posts before.

What do you think the likelihood of him getting shot would be if, if the exact same scenario unfolded, but he was a 20 year old young white male? Or female for that matter? Honestly?

I don't have a problem doing what I'm told by a police officer. I have a problem with being shot with a pistol if I don't comply. I bet you 10/10 times, if I was in that driver's seat, I wouldn't of suffered the same fate as that young man solely on the basis that I am white.

If you think this happens only to black people you would be wrong.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

Yes the number of black people shot dead by police is higher per capita as well as other minorities, just remember that blacks and other minorities are far more likely to be involved in gangs and other criminality. Add to that the rate of being belligerent, non co-operative, aggressively resistive and non compliant in their interactions with police is much higher than whites who are far more apt to comply with police. Thinking being white is a free pass is absolutely incorrect

If white people rioted, looted every time a white person was shot by police every city in America would be burnt down. But we don't, we see it differently, white people will say they got what they deserved. Media doesn't stir up hysteria among whites as they know nobody will care if some white guy got his just desserts for creating a scenario that results in them getting killed by police. In fact minorities are probably less apt to get killed by police for the same actions a white person might do as police are more scared of the repercussions from killing a minority than the repercussions of shooting a white person.