Another Police Shooting That Will Cause Riots

[Roughneck12]

Its kind of a foregone conclusion. Temps get warmer and its time for American leftists to burn down their cities.

[hunterngather]

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

Isn't it ironic that people don't riot when police officers kill white people? And even when hispanic people are killed by police officers, the result is rarely rioting. Why is that? And more white people are killed by police every year, actually about twice as many as any other race.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

The animals will riot at any chance for any reason. Free stuff run rampant burn buildings all in the name of BLM wooo!

Theirs (and sadly ours east) is a society where stupidity and mob rules are taking over, look at calm peaceful Montreal lately.

I'm all for peaceful protests. But these people looting,rioting,burning,raping, killing etc should be dealt with by the riot squad or better yet army.Dispatch a few and eventually it will stop. No warning shots. Enough is enough!

[mindoutside]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

[AI 6.5]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

That is a ridiculous comment. How about just complying with verbal direction, regardless of skin colour. Pretty simple yeah?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

Less people will die if criminals decide to comply with the police... trying to fight or run NEVER turns out well... ever.

LC

[jwelds191]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Isn't it ironic that people don't riot when police officers kill white people? And even when hispanic people are killed by police officers, the result is rarely rioting. Why is that? And more white people are killed by police every year, actually about twice as many as any other race.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

Did you happen to read the paragraph directly below the chart you posted? Or did you just observe the information you wanted, and tried to present it in a way that suits your narrative? From the third sentence, directly below the chart you referenced,

"...the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 35 fatal shootings per million of the population as of March 2021."

To answer your rhetorical question, this may be why the BLM movement was created (in 2013), and protests have now escalated to the point of riots. As hard as it can be, don't let the social and moral deviance that is occurring take away from the very real issue that they are trying to fight for. Systemic racism does exist, and whether or not you choose to believe it, there is no room for discrimination on the basis of race in today's society.

If you have an issue with my last point, I'd love to hear you voice it on a public forum. And as for Hispanics, Whites, and other ethnicities not rioting when a member of their community is killed by police, let's not pretend that the BLM movement we are witnessing will not improve the ENTIRE public's safety in the face of LEO's, if changes in training and approach are made.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by jwelds191

Did you happen to read the paragraph directly below the chart you posted? Or did you just observe the information you wanted, and tried to present it in a way that suits your narrative? From the third sentence, directly below the chart you referenced,

"...the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 35 fatal shootings per million of the population as of March 2021."

To answer your rhetorical question, this may be why the BLM movement was created (in 2013), and protests have now escalated to the point of riots. As hard as it can be, don't let the social and moral deviance that is occurring take away from the very real issue that they are trying to fight for. Systemic racism does exist, and whether or not you choose to believe it, there is no room for discrimination on the basis of race in today's society.

If you have an issue with my last point, I'd love to hear you voice it on a public forum. And as for Hispanics, Whites, and other ethnicities not rioting when a member of their community is killed by police, let's not pretend that the BLM movement we are witnessing will not improve the ENTIRE public's safety in the face of LEO's, if changes in training and approach are made.

Perhaps you should look at the arrest percentages by race in the USA. That should make it easy to understand why a higher percentage of black people are fatally shot by police. Then have a look at the stats for all murders of blacks, and see which race is responsible in the largest percentage of cases. The fact is, that the overwhelming majority of murders of black people , are carried out by black people.

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

Over half of ALL suspects arrested for murder in the USA are black.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ender_2013.xls

Around 90% of homicides committed against blacks, are committed by blacks.

[Ackleyman]

Things were certainly different 53 years ago.

Quote , Miami Police Chief Walter Headley:

"When the Looting starts , the Shooting starts"

Headley was head of the police force for 20 years and referred to his "get tough" policy on crime during a 1967 news conference as a war on young
hoodlums from 15-21 , who have taken advantage of the civil rights campaign < very similar to today.
..........'we don't mind being accused of police brutality "
Nobody is burning the city down.

[jwelds191]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Perhaps you should look at the arrest percentages by race in the USA. That should make it easy to understand why a higher percentage of black people are fatally shot by police. Then have a look at the stats for all murders of blacks, and see which race is responsible in the largest percentage of cases. The fact is, that the overwhelming majority of murders of black people , are carried out by black people.

If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, I think it points to a much larger social issue, which warrants addressing. The marginalization of individuals tends to push said group towards crime, and run ins with the law. By no means is this acceptable either; on the contrary, that social issue is what needs to be fixed. There's no simple answer here, but awareness is key. Police brutality of persons of colour is well documented throughout recent history.

I don't think there have been many points brought up on this thread, (from several individuals), that invalidate the basis of the BLM movement. Some seem to think undermining it's legitimacy will somehow fix the issue? Or is in the best interest of a certain group? I'm having a tough time pining down peoples' angle and position here.


**EDIT; browsing the links you posted as we speak. Thank you for sharing.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Maybe the riots will stop when white cops will stop killing black people?

Pretty simple yeah?

In your terms, when black people stop breaking laws they wont have to worry about white cops doing their job.

Let me guess, no longer simple, racist remark, victim of slavery, blah blah blah

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by vcmm

I'm all for peaceful protests. But these people looting,rioting,burning,raping, killing etc should be dealt with by the riot squad or better yet army.Dispatch a few and eventually it will stop. No warning shots. Enough is enough!

Remember folks ALL lives Matter, not just BLM.

Oooops, that didn't age well did it?

[urban rednek]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Minnesota...

[bukwild]

Hmmm

[tri777]

Originally Posted by bukwild

Hmmm

Dog blames the bullets..rubber or wood only is his big dumb dull idea.

Dog the Bounty Hunter on how to make policing safer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlkXaTsgkmc

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by hilt134

I do not agree with rioting and looting but I do believe some good will come from it. cops are going to start being a lot more careful in how they do their jobs, more bad cops will be weeded out, and a level of accountability will be set. Here’s an unpopular opinion the people who say “he shouldn’t of resisted, end of story” you are a contributing factor to the rioting. Your inability to concede that there may of been an ounce of racism, prejudice, corruption, or negligence involved actually fuels rioting. You won’t accept dialogue or compromise so they are giving you the other option, force

So what's your definition of bad cop? Case in point you have a 26 year veteran who has never had anything happen and one day makes a terrible mistake between a taser and pistol for whatever reason. Is she now a "Bad Cop" as you say? Be careful for unintended consequences of this. Yes crooked cops who habitually do things wrong/illegal may get weeded out, but it is more likely and all ready happening that good cops are quitting as they would rather quit and keep their families, homes, retirement etc.. than risk one accusation, investigation or make 1 mistake in an otherwise stellar career and instantly loose all of that. To put it in perspective, in a class of 65 officers from multiple agencies when asked who would recommend law enforcement as a career to a loved one as a career, none of us raised our hand.

Originally Posted by Trochu

I'd like to see the stats on how people who, upon being pulled over, trying to get back in there car and drive off/ram the police, resist, etc.

I don't follow the news really closely, but I've never heard of an on duty officer just up and shooting someone, white or black, who was doing as requested.

Funny you mention that. I just returned from a great training on this. 2 days studying officer involved shootings, ambushes, the good bad and ugly. With focus on the most recent incidents in the past year. Guess what there was 1 common theme in all the shootings initiated by the officers. The individual did not listen to the requests made by the police. They argued, they denied, they ignored, they stalled, they became belligerent, they DID NOT OBEY simple requests. Stop show me your hands! Shut the car off please, why? You have no right to tell me to do that. Your under arrest turn around put your hands behind your back, You can't arrest me, why you arresting me, this is illegal etc...

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have no problem with women being police officers or firefighters, provided that they pass the same physical test that men do. However, that isn't the case, the women have different physical standards, and that policy puts the public, and their coworkers at risk.

Show me these requirements? My sister works in Manitoba as an officer, she has the same PT requirements as males. I work in Montana, every officer in Montana has the same PT requirement to get in and out of the academy.

Originally Posted by sk270

A clearer case is the mistaken traffic stop of Lt. Nazario. How often does an RCMP officer point a pistol at someone who says they are afraid to get out of their car? I've never been asked to get out and never had a gun pointed at me. I think that's because US and Canadian police have different approaches to their jobs. There's more to the fear felt by people of colour than inflammatory articles in mainstream media.

Obviously, society is entirely different between the 2 countries so why would police behave the same way?

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So do you think that you could confuse a taser with a handgun? So how does an officer with 26years experience do it?

So you've never made a mistake at work under stress? Obviously some mistakes are more significant than others but take what a serious mistake would be in any line of work. A trucker has never ran a stop sign or red light? Forgot to tie down a load? Mechanic has never forgotten to tighten a bolt down properly, or grabbed the wrong wrench? Oilfield workers have never forgotten to secure a pipe rack. A Pilot has never forgotten to put the landing gear down, or landed long or short etc... I'm not trying to justify anything that officer did. I'm just trying to say we all make mistakes under stress and yes some have more serious consequences but we still make those mistakes.

[QUOTE=tri777;4361491]I too cannot comprehend how an officer with over a quarter century of service makes such a life
altering, color blinded mistake thinking her yellow bodied tazer is suddenly black.
Not one surrounding officer notices either as she's about to pull trigger saying "Tazer" 3X.

Originally Posted by bukwild

Hmmm

Do we know for sure it was a yellow body taser? I'm serious as everyone I work with is issued a black taser. I haven't seen the alleged taser she was supposed to have had so just checking to make sure your not assuming it's yellow because that's what police in your area carry. The video I saw of the officer who made the mistake, there wasn't really a way for the other 2 to see her draw the gun. One guy was on passenger side of vehicle so how do you suggest he look through the car, suspect and officer to see her draw a gun instead of taser? As for the officer who initially went hands on at the door to make the arrest, she drew as she was behind him moving around right side to left. He was struggling with a suspect trying to gain control so I don't see much opportunity for him to notice what was in her hand either.


As far as some stats here is a webpage for you to look at.

https://nleomf.org/facts-figures/law-enforcement-facts

[fordtruckin]

Here is something else to ponder as the media will never mention an article like this because it doesn't fit their agenda.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...-race-numbers/

The Real Numbers Of “Police Brutality” in America That You Need To See
Posted by: Kyle S. Reyes|February 18, 2019 |CategoriesFeatured, Must Reads, News
Share:
Everyone from the Hollywood elite to NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem… from the mainstream media to teachers at schools across the country… seem to want to declare that police are racists.

They’ll tell you there’s a disproportionate number of “unarmed black men” being killed by the cops.

That police brutality is out of control.

Except… the numbers once again absolutely destroy that argument.

According to 2019 data, there are 328, 240, 469 people here in the United States.
According to stats from com, there are 670,279 full time police officers here in the United States out of a total of 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers (data from National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund).
There are approximately 2.1 police officers per thousand people.
Police officers are less than .21 % of population.
Officers come into contact with 17% of the population annually.
That means 55,800,880 contacts

Which, at the time of the last report, led to 26,000 excessive force complaints against officers.
That’s 0.047% of contacts.
Only 8% of those complaints were sustained.
That’s 2,080 out of 53,380,000 contacts, or .0039%
A good friend of mine who is a Chief of Police put that into perspective:

You are seven times more likely to be murdered …
15 times more likely to be killed in a traffic accident …
42 times more likely to be raped …
… than to have a police officer use excessive force on you.

But we’re just warming up. Let’s look at 2018 police shootings.

Of the 998 total Police Deadly Use of Force, here is the breakdown by Race & Age:

Race

White –456 (45.69%)
Black –229 (22.95%)
Hispanic –165 (16.5%)
Other –41 (4.1%)
Unknown –107 (10.72%)
Age

Under 18 – 15
18 to 29 – 286
30 to 44 – 379
Over 45 – 253
Unknown – 65
According to 2016 FBI data, black men commit murder 572.8% more than white men. Rapes are committed at a level of 146.1% greater, robbery at 617.9% greater, aggravated assault at 203.3% greater and violent crime in total at 263.6% greater.

Now let’s look at 2018 Police Deadly Use of Force data.

In 2018 there were a total of 998 Police Deadly Use of Force incidents. Of these incidents, 95.3% of suspects were armed:

Gun – 555
Knife – 185
Replica weapon – 33
Vehicle – 38
Other – 105
Unknown – 35
Unarmed – 47

Of the 47 (4.7%) that were “unarmed”:

White – 23
Black – 18
Hispanic – 6
Note: In almost half of the cases (22) where the suspect was unarmed, non-lethal force was attempted & failed prior to the use of deadly Force.

Listen. I’m not suggesting racism doesn’t exist in law enforcement. It exists everywhere – that’s the sad truth of it.

And yes, black people in the United States are more likely to be victims of violent confrontations with police officers (per capita) than their white counterparts.
But let’s dive deeper into why this is.

Statistically, minorities come to police attention far more than their population would suggest.

Black Americans make up about 13% of the population.
But according to the FBI, they account for about 50% of murders, and about 38% of all violent crime overall.
Chicago gives us some great examples. And let’s not forget the insanely strict gun laws there, by the way. For example, during the first eight months of 2016 (the most recent period for which the numbers are available), 2,818 people were shot — only 12 by police. (That’s one-half of 1 percent).

In cities with large black populations, homicide rates have skyrocketed during that same period:

In Washington D.C., homicides are up 54%. In Cleveland, up 90%. Overall, homicide is up 17%.
The U.S. Department of Justice says that Black people make up 15% of the population in the 75 largest counties in the United States, yet account for 62% of all robberies, 57% of murders, 45% of all assaults.
So what’s going on here? Are we confusing the color of one’s skin with poverty or inequality? It’s a fair argument. Black people tend to be greater offenders, statistically speaking, because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services.

Then of course there’s the argument about the “violent subculture theory.” This is the idea that some black communities have developed cultural values that are more tolerant of crime and violence.

I want to leave you with a few recent studies.

First, a 2016 study by Roland G. Fryer Jr., who is an economics professor at Harvard. He found that no racial bias could be detected in police shootings, in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. He also found racial bias was detected in lesser use of police force, but not deadly encounters. His recommendation?

“Black Lives Matter should seek solutions within their own communities rather than changing the behaviors of police and other external forces.”


Second, there were 6,095 black homicide deaths in 2014 according to FBI Data — the most recent year for which such data are available — compared with 5,397 homicide deaths for whites and Hispanics combined. Almost all of those black homicide victims had black killers.

Finally, police officers — of all races — are also disproportionately endangered by black assailants. Over the past decade, according to FBI data, 40% of cop killers have been black. Officers are killed by blacks at a rate 2.5 times higher than the rate at which blacks are killed by police.

Seems to me like the real problem here is socioeconomic disparities along with a public perception issue thanks to biased reporting. And let’s not forget the huge role that social media plays in disseminating false narratives and creating emotional, knee-jerk reactions.

Finally, I’d like to leave you with some stats from the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund.

There are more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. About 12 percent of those are female.
According to the preliminary FBI’s Uniform Crime Reportfrom January to June 2016-2017, an estimated 442,824 Violent Crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 8%.
Crime fighting has taken its toll. Since the first recorded police death in 1791, there have been over 21,000 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty. Currently, there are 21,541 names engraved on the walls of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial.
A total of 1,511 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years, an average of one death every 58 hours or 151 per year. There were 129 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty in 2017.
There have been 58,627 assaults against law enforcement officers in 2016, resulting in 16,677
The 1920s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,480 officers died, or an average of almost 248 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 310 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 162 per year.
The deadliest day in law enforcement history was September 11, 2001, when 72officers were killed while responding to the terrorist attacks on America.
New York City has lost more officers in the line of duty than any other department, with 833 Texas has lost 1,731officers, more than any other state. The state with the fewest deaths is Vermont, with 23.
There are 1,135 federal officers listed on the Memorial, as well as 707 correctional officers and 41 military law enforcement officers.
There are 328 female officers listed on the Memorial; nine female officers were killed in 2017.
During the past ten years, more incidents that resulted in felonious fatalities occurred on Friday than any other day of the week. The fewest number of felonious incidents occurred on Tuesday.

It’s important to have very real conversations about racism in America and accountability among those who hold the thin blue line. Let’s just make sure we’re basing those conversations on facts and not feelings.

[elkhunter11]

Show me these requirements? My sister works in Manitoba as an officer, she has the same PT requirements as males. I work in Montana, every officer in Montana has the same PT requirement to get in and out of the academy.

Here you go, women have to meet a lesser physical standard to enroll in the RCMP

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/enrollment

The fitness program requires cadets to arrive at the Training Academy in good shape and able to meet the following standards:

2.43 kilometre run (1.5 miles) in 10:45 minutes (men) and 12:00 minutes (women);
4.86 kilometre run (3.0 miles) in 22:00 minutes (men) and 24:00 minutes (women);
8.1 kilometre run (5.0 miles) in 40:00 to 45:00 minutes;
25 pushups minimum; and
Pull ups 6 (men) and 3 (women).

[catnthehat]

The physical requirements are so close I don't even know why they are different , in fact I know many women who would destroy many males in the arobic area .
Also, those requirements ate just a miniscule part of the training as is narkanship.
It seems the general public ( and many here) think ever cop should be a super combat arms expert when in reality , they rarely use their firearms and they need to use their mental senses far more in everyday work, same as their driving skills.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The physical requirements are so close I don't even know why they are different , in fact I know many women who would destroy many males in the arobic area .
Also, those requirements ate just a miniscule part of the training as is narkanship.
It seems the general public ( and many here) think ever cop should be a super combat arms expert when in reality , they rarely use their firearms and they need to use their mental senses far more in everyday work, same as their driving skills.
Cat

And yet the physical requirements are different for men and women. Why is that?
Personally, I was more concerned with the double standard for fire fighters at my previous employment, the males had to drag a much heavier dummy in the rescue simulation test. If I went down and needed rescue, I was hoping that the person responding could actually rescue a 200lb person.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And yet the physical requirements are different for men and women. Why is that?

No idea but the requirements you posted are so close they are rediculous .
I could ask my nephew who is in fact at depot right now and slated to graduate soon but as I stated the requirements you posted are so close as that are of no consequence In my eyes.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No idea but is almost reductions tgecrequirenebts are so close .
I could ask my nephew who is in fact at depot right now and slated to graduate soon but as I stated the requirements you posted are so close as that are of no consequence In my eyes.
Cat

The only requirement that does differ significantly, is the pull up, 3 is far different than 6.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Here you go, women have to meet a lesser physical standard to enroll in the RCMP

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/enrollment

Thanks! I will say while the largest LEA in Canada it still doesn't mean every other agency in the country has different requirements between male/female.

hmmmm on a side note, maybe I should apply for the RCMP and claim I don't identify as either male or female so I can make my own standards

[bearbuster]

This guy on youtube has quickly became my fav. He breaksdown officer involved shootings and shows graphic and some previously un published views of the events. Quite a few of the high profile incidents have a lot more to them that is released. Here are his thoughts on this particular incident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5SMurcZtM

[sk270]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I’m not suggesting racism doesn’t exist in law enforcement. It exists everywhere – that’s the sad truth of it.

So what’s going on here? Are we confusing the color of one’s skin with poverty or inequality? It’s a fair argument. Black people tend to be greater offenders, statistically speaking, because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services.

Seems to me like the real problem here is socioeconomic disparities along with a public perception issue thanks to biased reporting. And let’s not forget the huge role that social media plays in disseminating false narratives and creating emotional, knee-jerk reactions.

It’s important to have very real conversations about racism in America and accountability among those who hold the thin blue line. Let’s just make sure we’re basing those conversations on facts and not feelings.

Excellent post, as I have come to expect from fordtruckin. And thank you for the data.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Thanks! I will say while the largest LEA in Canada it still doesn't mean every other agency in the country has different requirements between male/female.

hmmmm on a side note, maybe I should apply for the RCMP and claim I don't identify as either male or female so I can make my own standards

This is for Ontario, and the standards are different as well.

https://www.londonpolice.ca/en/Caree...ts_Oct7_13.pdf

[tri777]

Originally Posted by bearbuster

This guy on youtube has quickly became my fav. He breaksdown officer involved shootings and shows graphic and some previously un published views of the events. Quite a few of the high profile incidents have a lot more to them that is released. Here are his thoughts on this particular incident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5SMurcZtM

You may like 'Mike The Cop' also..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNQdr7FdNCM

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

This is for Ontario, and the standards are different as well.

https://www.londonpolice.ca/en/Caree...ts_Oct7_13.pdf

I’ve got no time to argue that. I’m not denying different standards exist for some agencies but not ALL agencies as some are implying in this thread.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

So you've never made a mistake at work under stress? Obviously some mistakes are more significant than others but take what a serious mistake would be in any line of work. A trucker has never ran a stop sign or red light? Forgot to tie down a load? Mechanic has never forgotten to tighten a bolt down properly, or grabbed the wrong wrench? Oilfield workers have never forgotten to secure a pipe rack. A Pilot has never forgotten to put the landing gear down, or landed long or short etc... I'm not trying to justify anything that officer did. I'm just trying to say we all make mistakes under stress and yes some have more serious consequences but we still make those mistakes.

When I screw up I expect to be held accountable but it sure seems to me there’s a problem with that for LE. Doubly so if I’m found to have tried to cover up my mistake and dodge consequences. For every officer that’s had their actions judged by the social media mob unfairly we can find several examples of officers who should have been held accountable but weren’t until public pressure forced the issue.

What do you think about this?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rcover-protest

I don’t envy the scrutiny law enforcement find themselves under recently and I acknowledge it’s often unfair. However you need to understand that this didn’t just happen one day out of the blue. Decades of abuse and bad behaviour by some of your peers has resulted in this disaster and it’s not going to go away without some hard work.

If you want to get mad at somebody look at the generation that came before you and ask them why they didn’t deal with their messes.