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08-20-2012, 03:18 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Can retailers record your PAL info for ammo sales?
Just like the title says, can retailers record your PAL info for ammo sales? Is this province specific or at the retailers discretion. I've never had it recorded in Alberta only had to show it, but we picked up some ammo today in Newfoundland to go sight the rifles in for moose season and the clerk recorded our PAL #. I could'nt find anything on the CFC website, if you have a solid answer please provide a source. Thanks!
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08-20-2012, 03:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Only if you give it to them. I've never had to give my pal number, and there is no law I can find that requires a retailer to do so. Just show your pal. Any retailer tries writing my PAL down, can keep their ammo.
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08-20-2012, 03:52 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 207
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It all depends where you are buying the ammuntion. In Ontario:
4.
Record keeping
(1) A person who holds a permit issued under subsection 110 (5) of the Criminal Code (Canada) to carry on a business described in subparagraph 105 (2) (b) (i) of that Act shall keep a record of the following information for all ammunition sales:
The date and time of the purchase.
The name, age and address of the purchaser.
The type of identification and permit produced and their serial numbers.
The calibre and quantity of ammunition purchased. 1994, c. 20, s. 4 (1).
Inspection of records
(2) The chief provincial firearms officer for Ontario, designated under the Criminal Code (Canada), or any person authorized by him or her for the purposes of this section, may conduct an inspection of the records required to be kept under subsection (1). 1994, c. 20, s. 4 (2).
Not sure what the laws are in Nfld.
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08-20-2012, 03:53 PM
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Sure they "can"
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08-20-2012, 04:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,423
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That Ontario requirement is excessive; the federal government in their small bit of wisdom related to PAL licensing opted to leave our addresses off of the PAL identification card, and noted in the quoted legislation here Ontario wants to conglomerate all of that sensitive information in numerous insecure retail locations. Now any WalMart staffer can find out what calibre you're shooting and your home address. How infinitely smart of Ontario 
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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08-20-2012, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
we picked up some ammo today in Newfoundland to go sight the rifles in for moose season and the clerk recorded our PAL #. I could'nt find anything on the CFC website, if you have a solid answer please provide a source. Thanks!
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He's on the rock not in ontario
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08-20-2012, 04:35 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingMOM
He's on the rock not in ontario
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Slam's quoted legislation is from Ontario though. If someone posts the Noof legislation I'll comment on that.
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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08-20-2012, 04:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,013
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Quantity of ammo? Holy crap, do they want a video of me shooting it to? Have to make sure I don't have any left over rounds, I could become a terrorist tomorrow.
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08-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
Just like the title says, can retailers record your PAL info for ammo sales? Is this province specific or at the retailers discretion. I've never had it recorded in Alberta only had to show it, but we picked up some ammo today in Newfoundland to go sight the rifles in for moose season and the clerk recorded our PAL #. I could'nt find anything on the CFC website, if you have a solid answer please provide a source. Thanks!
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My answer was directed more to the first part of the op and was to say that it is juristiction specific and that is why I posted the fact that I did not know the NFD specific regulations/laws.
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08-20-2012, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 2,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
Any retailer tries writing my PAL down, can keep their ammo.
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I agree.
They don't need to write it down, all they need to do it verify its valid.
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08-20-2012, 08:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Why are you asking us a question that is about Newfoundland?
Phone the CFO office for Newfoundland? Record the responses, and get anything in writing.
I do not know what the laws are over there, and if we can help you.
If there are any conservative MPs in Newfoundland, get a hold of them and start screaming.
If the Nfd-Lab conservative MP's laugh you off, tell them you have over 29,000 buddies just on one internet forum that are willing to contact the Alberta Conservatives MP's demanding those Nfd-Lab Conservatives be turned into back bench losers for the rest of their political career.
If they call your cards..... watch what we can do.
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08-20-2012, 08:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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I don't think there is any issue with having to record PAL info. Probably store policy. This pdf is from 2007, but should still hold true for newfoundland.
http://www.cila-ical.com/2008/04/CFO...Regulation.pdf
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08-20-2012, 08:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 7,024
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Ahhh, nfld gun and ammo laws. The place where it is illegal to possess a firearm in any area where animals frequent with out a licence. Not even allowed to shoot a can in the bush.
I'd just tell them I don't have to.give you that info and see what happens.
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08-20-2012, 08:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeaspell
Ahhh, nfld gun and ammo laws. The place where it is illegal to possess a firearm in any area where animals frequent with out a licence. Not even allowed to shoot a can in the bush.
I'd just tell them I don't have to.give you that info and see what happens.
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Wow, been over 20 years since I carried a gun back home. Has it really changed that much?
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08-20-2012, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 7,024
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Straight from the regs
Firearms, Ammunition
It is unlawful:
unless you have a permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during a closed season in any area frequented by wildlife. A person travelling to a hunting area may, if he/she holds the proper game licence, transport a firearm or ammunition if the firearm is cased or securely wrapped and tied. unless you have a valid game licence and/or permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during an open season for shooting in any area frequented by wildlife. to carry, transport or possess, in any area frequented by wildlife, any pump or autoloading shotgun unless it is plugged or altered so that it cannot carry any more than a total of three shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
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08-20-2012, 08:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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20 years away and i'm really out of the loop. No wonder people back home are getting cross with all the laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeaspell
Straight from the regs
Firearms, Ammunition
It is unlawful:
unless you have a permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during a closed season in any area frequented by wildlife. A person travelling to a hunting area may, if he/she holds the proper game licence, transport a firearm or ammunition if the firearm is cased or securely wrapped and tied. unless you have a valid game licence and/or permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during an open season for shooting in any area frequented by wildlife. to carry, transport or possess, in any area frequented by wildlife, any pump or autoloading shotgun unless it is plugged or altered so that it cannot carry any more than a total of three shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
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08-20-2012, 08:29 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lougheed,Ab.
Posts: 12,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Sure they "can"
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yup, they can ask, quite a few years ago, when the registry was still in effect, a certain store in Calgary was making you write down your info to buy reloading components, if the U.S. was serious about tracking down Bin Laden, they should have staked out that store, if you read the book, he was in there 6 or 7 times a day!!!...LOL
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The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
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08-20-2012, 08:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeaspell
Straight from the regs
Firearms, Ammunition
It is unlawful:
unless you have a permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during a closed season in any area frequented by wildlife. A person travelling to a hunting area may, if he/she holds the proper game licence, transport a firearm or ammunition if the firearm is cased or securely wrapped and tied. unless you have a valid game licence and/or permit, to carry, transport or possess firearms or ammunition during an open season for shooting in any area frequented by wildlife. to carry, transport or possess, in any area frequented by wildlife, any pump or autoloading shotgun unless it is plugged or altered so that it cannot carry any more than a total of three shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
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Oh Boy: Newfoundland gun control:
I would not be surprised if Redford is working on the same thing in Alberta.
Watch this law to pop up in B.C.
I did not vote for her.
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08-20-2012, 08:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
yup, they can ask, quite a few years ago, when the registry was still in effect, a certain store in Calgary was making you write down your info to buy reloading components, if the U.S. was serious about tracking down Bin Laden, they should have staked out that store, if you read the book, he was in there 6 or 7 times a day!!!...LOL
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About the only way you can sue the government is over criminal negligence , and criminal breach of trust with the public. With the people you see working in gun shops there is an excellent opportunity for an employee or even a customer to look at the records that could endanger personal and public security and even privacy. Yet the CFO of the province allows this potentially deadly behavior to continue. To a common layman like me this behavior looks like criminal negligence of the government and the people sworn to entrust the safety of the people.
Where is the NFA when you need them? No membership this year boys.. until you clean up your act.
CSSA plus donations for me.
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08-20-2012, 10:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lougheed
Posts: 991
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They can do whatever they deem fit to protect themselves. It comes down to their right to refuse service. If they ask and you say no, they can just as easily, and are backed by law, tell you to leave their store and pound sand.
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08-20-2012, 10:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fort McMurray
Posts: 2,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greylynx
Why are you asking us a question that is about Newfoundland?
Phone the CFO office for Newfoundland? Record the responses, and get anything in writing.
I do not know what the laws are over there, and if we can help you.
If there are any conservative MPs in Newfoundland, get a hold of them and start screaming.
If the Nfd-Lab conservative MP's laugh you off, tell them you have over 29,000 buddies just on one internet forum that are willing to contact the Alberta Conservatives MP's demanding those Nfd-Lab Conservatives be turned into back bench losers for the rest of their political career.
If they call your cards..... watch what we can do.
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I like where you're going with this ...
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If you're reading this, why aren't you in the woods?
Stupidity is taxable and sometimes I get to be the collector.
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08-20-2012, 10:16 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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John doe bought a few pounds of powder from wholesale sports tonight!!
It's a joke!!
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08-20-2012, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 5,062
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No, they cannot make you give that information in order to buy ammo - not in AB, anyway.
Airbornedeerhunter, I like greylynx and I like reading his comments. But I gotta hand it to you - you can curse with the best of them. That was a fine job of cursing.
I still like greylynx.
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"If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'" - J.W.
God made man. Sam Colt made them equal.
Make Alberta a better place. Have your liberal spayed or neutered.
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08-20-2012, 11:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7
No, they cannot make you give that information in order to buy ammo - not in AB, anyway.
Airbornedeerhunter, I like greylynx and I like reading his comments. But I gotta hand it to you - you can curse with the best of them. That was a fine job of cursing.
I still like greylynx.
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Thanks Rock.
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08-20-2012, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,423
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__________________
"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
Last edited by huntinstuff; 08-21-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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08-20-2012, 11:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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So it's company policy, not law. Good to know.
What part of the rock are you on?
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08-20-2012, 11:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
So it's company policy, not law. Good to know.
What part of the rock are you on?
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Kelligrews
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08-21-2012, 07:56 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The City that rhymes with fun...
Posts: 391
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I was at the bass Pro in Calgary a couple of weeks ago and they recorded my PAL info for some muzzle loader pellets, wasn't sure if that was normal or not. Kinda ticked me off though
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Dear NASA, your mom thought I was big enough. -Pluto
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08-21-2012, 08:07 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
John doe bought a few pounds of powder from wholesale sports tonight!!
It's a joke!!
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John Doe should of bought at P & D.
I will not purchase rifles, ammo or reloading components from any retailer wanting to write my info in their books.
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08-21-2012, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 9,701
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It's a Possession Acquisition License.
You have to SHOW it to obtain a firearm or ammo.
That's it.
If they had a "store policy" saying the cashier can grope your wife, would you let them???
Good grief guys, take a moment once in a while to tell someone to go to hell, to their face.
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When you are born, you get a ticket to the Freak Show.
If you are born in Canada, you get a front row seat.
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