be ready to shoot & know when to shoot

duffy4 · #1 03-05-2009, 11:47 AM

The "shooting skills" got me thinking about the difference between "being a good shot at paper and being a good shot on game"

How many times have you heard a story about someone who saw a great buck but "couldn't get a shot?" When you hear the details it often becomes apparent that they were not ready to shoot if an opportunity came up.

I went out hunting with my father-in -law once and I told him to walk down a cutline till he was in comfortable shooting distance of a muskeg that was 200 yards north of the road we parked on. I knew there was a good game trail that crossed the cutline just before the muskeg.

When we met up at the truck a couple hours later he said "I saw the biggest buck I have ever seen but I couldn't get a shot. My rifle was leaning against a tree and when I went to reach for it he ran off." He WAS NOT READY FOR A SHOT.

One afternoon I was walking slowly along a pipeline where there was a lot of deer sign and I had seen does in the evening. I had my rifle in my hands loaded with safety on. I saw some deer running and thought I had spooked them. I heard a buck grunting and animals running toward a cutline that crossed the pipeline. I tokk the safety off and brought the rifle to my shoulder ready to shoot when the deer came to the cutline. A doe crossed and then a buck appeared. At the angle he was on it would take him about 2 seconds to cross the line and be out of sight. It took about 1/2 second for me to deside he was a "shooter" and 1 1/2 seconde to make the shot before he crossed the line.

This could have been one of those stories about a great buck that "I could not get a shot at" But I was ready to make a shot and I did.

A buck walking away from you can all of a sudden turn almost broadside for a second. Then he turns and walks away into the bush. You had one second to take the shot and kill a great buck. If you were not ready OR if you just failed to make that decision to shoot in that second you will be telling the "I could not get a shot" story. If you were READY and made the choice to shoot in that best window of opportunity you would have the trophy.

Having great equipment and practicing shooting targets at the range is VERY IMPORTANT. But it sure doesn't mean that if you see a good buck that he's yours.

The workouts at the range will make you familiar with your gun and that helps a lot with being able to get ready for the shot quickly. The confidence of KNOWING you can hit what you shoot at helps to despell the hesitation some hunters experience when they must decide to shoot.

Robin in Rocky

twofifty · #2 03-05-2009, 01:07 PM

Agreed. Range benches & bags are good for sighting in and working on certain aspects of shooting, but imo positional shooting is more applicable to hunting situations.

It helps to vary distances, target types, shooting positions and most relevant to your post, to shoot on demand or against the clock. Friendly rivalries or organized competitions are ways to judge one's improvements.

Yeah, the range isn't hunting, but range games build confidence to where a guy knows he can quickly place a good shot where and when it counts.

And the good ole .22LR makes range games affordable.

Tundra Monkey · #3 03-05-2009, 01:41 PM

I'll take this one a step further......and I'm prepared for the ripping I'm gonna get....cause I think it's gonna be a good one

Gotta set the table a bit....I'm not talking about meat animals here....bigguns only.

If I see one I'm GOING to kill it. I will not let it walk unless it's illegal to shoot or recovery is impossible.......and I mean IMPOSSIBLE...other than that it is gonna die.

Very rarely am I a one shot kill guy. 99% of the time my first shot is to break it. I've got no issue with shoulders or hips and they are preferred IMO. Frontal and rear shots....no issue. Anyone that has done it knows how effective they are. If your shooting a good heavy bullet....penetration is not an issue. Shoot a 1500#+ moose in the lungs and heart and watch him go 100 - 1000 yards...no thank you. This can turn a 3 hour recovery into days....maybe impossible.....ain't gonna happen to the me.....and as far as watching him walk because he's not broadside......screw that.

The internet/tv is full of all this "wait for the perfect angle" crap....and I shake my head every time I watch one walk away.

I don't want this to dissapear so I'll end this now but feel free to rip away and try to convert me to the masses....I'm here till 7:00

tm

catnthehat · #4 03-05-2009, 05:45 PM

For myself, I'm not a horn hunter so I rarely take Texas heart shots or frontals, BUT I have and will conttinue to do so if that is what is presented!
I have also as a guide recommended a paticular shot that some would not advocate. There is no way II would tell a client to "put one behind the shoulder" if the danged moose was near the river, becauuse thee first place it wiill go is to the water - I'd rather he dump it where it stands!

The key is to be able to figure out where the vitals are and where to shoot.
I have absolutely no problem with people that take shots other than broadsides as long as theey are capable of doing it, same at shooting at distances farhther than 200 yards.

As far as shooting a rifle off the bags at the range, it is great for zeroing , yes, but after that I always recommend hunting positiions as practise for hunting.
if a person hunts with a biipod or walking stick they should use it to practise with, for sure.
same thing if you tend top shoot off your backpack.
Matches like rifle rodeos and turkey shoots with hunting rifles are perfect for this.
A running deer target at 100 yards is a real eye opener for lots of guyys who continually tell you they kill deer at 200 on a dead run!
Cat

hal53 · #5 03-05-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

For myself, I'm not a horn hunter so I rarely take Texas heart shots or frontals, BUT I have and will conttinue to do so if that is what is presented!
I have also as a guide recommended a paticular shot that some would not advocate. There is no way II would tell a client to "put one behind the shoulder" if the danged moose was near the river, becauuse thee first place it wiill go is to the water - I'd rather he dump it where it stands!

The key is to be able to figure out where the vitals are and where to shoot.
I have absolutely no problem with people that take shots other than broadsides as long as theey are capable of doing it, same at shooting at distances farhther than 200 yards.

As far as shooting a rifle off the bags at the range, it is great for zeroing , yes, but after that I always recommend hunting positiions as practise for hunting.
if a person hunts with a biipod or walking stick they should use it to practise with, for sure.
same thing if you tend top shoot off your backpack.
Matches like rifle rodeos and turkey shoots with hunting rifles are perfect for this.

A running deer target at 100 yards is a real eye opener for lots of guyys who continually tell you they kill deer at 200 on a dead run!
Cat

like the comment from Cat...don't know if Dick284 would remember, but when we first built ESC..it was a 100 Yd. range...J. Kokas pushed out one side to 200 Yds. .Built a 12" gong and had the guys stand on their hind legs and shoot...(far too many times ,field conditions)...maybe 1 or 2 hits out of 10...eye opener for lots

elkhunter11 · #6 03-05-2009, 07:12 PM

My personal opinion,is that the most important factor is knowing your limits,and staying within those limits.If you are sure that you can make a shot before taking it,you will likely make a good hit,if you have any doubt at all,a miss or wounding shot is quite likely.The only way to know your limits is to practise regularly,at various ranges from field positions.

BearnDown · #7 03-05-2009, 07:16 PM

Well thats just plain crap. It causes undue suffering and damages valuable meat. I'd much rather watch him walk then run a bullet through his hams and chase him for miles. It screws up the meat and causes him more pain and suffering. I'm embarassed to be involved in the same sport as guys like you.

hal53 · #8 03-05-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My personal opinion,is that the most important factor is knowing your limits,and staying within those limits.If you are sure that you can make a shot before taking it,you will likely make a good hit,if you have any doubt at all,a miss or wounding shot is quite likely.The only way to know your limits is to practise regularly,at various ranges from field positions.

exactly...far too many people make 1 "lucky" shot at a running animal...which they say is 200 yds.or more... (likely less than 100)...and they're experts on running game/long shots

catnthehat · #9 03-05-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearnDown

Well thats just plain crap. It causes undue suffering and damages valuable meat. I'd much rather watch him walk then run a bullet through his hams and chase him for miles. It screws up the meat and causes him more pain and suffering. I'm embarassed to be involved in the same sport as guys like you.

Well, I guess you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how flawed it is.

FWIW, I've seen bad hits in the lungs as well.

Meat is not the only reason some huunters hunt, and I have an animal thhat is near water , a cliiff, muskeg, or anny other obsticvle that my himnder or prevent me from recovering iit, I'm taking the shot.

BTW, I am honoured that you lump me iinto all the others that you are embarraseed to be associated with.
Names Like O'Connor, Page, Keith, Agaard, Ruarlk, Sellus, Kerr, etc.
Take a pill you self rightous imbicial!

This will likely get me banned, but with all these "experts posting these days I could care less.
Cat

BearnDown · #10 03-05-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Meat is not the only reason some huunters hunt,

I'm with ya all the way on this one, I spend my entire season holding out for big horns, but at the same time its our responsibility as hunters to keep as much usable meat intact as we can. Crankin a bullet through an animals arse just ain't gonna do that. I'm not making the same argument as that other yahoo about the wolverine mounts and such, just simply that the basics of hunting are to put meat on the table, horns are (a damn close) second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

and I have an animal thhat is near water , a cliiff, muskeg, or anny other obsticvle that my himnder or prevent me from recovering iit, I'm taking the shot.,

Whats so terrible about letting him walk if all you get is crappy shot angles? Let him walk away then get on him again. If hes close to muskeg, a cliff etc. why would you even think about taking a good shot (broadside, lung shot or head shot), nevermind a low percentage shot. This makes absolutley no sense..... "he's awful close to that muskeg, all I've got is an arse shot, I better get a bullet in there" wtf?

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

BTW, I am honoured that you lump me iinto all the others that you are embarraseed to be associated with.
Names Like O'Connor, Page, Keith, Agaard, Ruarlk, Sellus, Kerr, etc.

I have no idea who these people are, but I'm sure since you do, I should too right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Take a pill you self rightous imbicial!

Self rightous as it may be, I hunt with a very standard set of ethics that is shared by anybody with a brain in their head. I'm proud of the fact that I harvest my animals the way I do, and yes I am embarassed to be assosciated with anybody that has such little respect for their quarry as some of the guys who have posted here. Theres no need for name-calling, we've all been out of the second grade for quite some time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

This will likely get me banned, but with all these "experts posting these days I could care less.
Cat

I doubt raggin on me will get you banned, but what should is your flagerant disregard for the animal you are hunting. Posts like yours fuel the antis fire and keep them going. I never claimed to be an expert on anything, however I will now. I consider myself an EXPERT in my own set of ethics and the ethics that EVERY HUNTER should have. We all have our own ideals, but I would think that it would make sense that we should all agree on the following:
1. We should harvest our animal in the quickest most efficient manner we can.
2. We should make use of as much meat off our animal as possible.
3. We should abide by the set of laws set out in the area we hunt.

Everything beyond that is up to an individual, but I think this is the bare minimum that we should all be on board with...no?

Jerry D · #11 03-05-2009, 08:42 PM

I hunt to fill my tag for the meat... I prefer standard chest shot...

For me the preference of killing shots go
1 - Spine shot
2 - chest shot
3 - neck shot
4 - head shot

If the game is wounded - I shoot at any shot presented to help bring it down to end the chase faster - if it is not wounded I don't take a shot unless I can see its chest/neck and its close enough to hit.

I do not mind taking quartering shots and have no problems taking front shots right through the brisket.

I carry my rifle in a ready type position, I don't sling it over my shoulder.

Running shots are... unique... I made 2 beautiful shots on a pair of deer when I was 18 - 1 shot each, the first hit the spine above the chest @ 75 yards and the 2nd hit lower chest/heart @ 150ish... I led the deer about 1 foot, the cross hairs could see a bit of air in front of the chest as I shot I continued the follow through... that being said, when I was 19 I missed 3 shots at a pair... rushed things too much... its all about being patient, getting on target, matching its speed, confirming things are good, and then squeezing off the shot. I never worried about the up and down, just the forward.

matathonman · #12 03-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Only time an animal gets it behind the shoulder is with an arrow. Gun hunting everything gets bone smashed and doesn't go anywhere! I'm a firm believer in taking out the shoulders. I shoot a magnum with a good penetrating bullet so whether or not it's going to do the job is not a worry. Bang flop!(most of the time)
If worried about the meat waste clean it up right away. You'de be surprised at how little meat waste there really is. The longer you leave it the worse it gets.

BearnDown · #13 03-05-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry D

If the game is wounded - I shoot at any shot presented to help bring it down to end the chase faster - if it is not wounded I don't take a shot unless I can see its chest/neck and its close enough to hit.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Flyers happen to the best of us, and its gonna happen once in a while that you make a bad shot. If and when this happens, I'll take any shot I can to knock him down asap.

Dick284 · #14 03-05-2009, 09:22 PM

As posted by Sdeviation back in Aug of 2007.

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...t=Mov01414.flv

Rifle is held below your elbow for each target, the targets come up in a random order.

First time thru off your hind legs
Second time thru kneeling
Last time thru sitting.

Learning how to mount your rifle with both eyes open, and preferable having the knack of shooting with both eyes open, really widens the opprtunity window.

As for ethics, does and donts, well that's too often debated and then locked in these parts.

I truely hope no one intentionally heads out with a Texas heart shot in mind.
I truely hope everyone goes in to the field with a firm understanding of their limitations.

But then again "stuff" does happen, and how it ends is often a pretty dicy situation to say the least.

The more you keep your focus, and the more you try to replicate field like conditions, and the better your equiptment is prepared, and the better you are prepared, the less likely is "stuff" to happen.

BearnDown · #15 03-05-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

As for ethics, does and donts, well that's too often debated and then locked in these parts.

Yup, yer absolutley right Dick...Cat I'll shut my mouth if you shut yours lol.

E-handshake?

catnthehat · #16 03-06-2009, 07:21 AM

I;m going to lleave you with these names.
Jack O'Coonnnor
Warren Page
Elmer keith
Finn Aagard
harry Sellus
Robert Ruark

You have insulted me by insinuating that I am not an ethical hunter and in fact simply go out to injure and harm game.
You have insulted me saying insinuating tha I do not know who to hunt , place shots, and that your "standard of ethics" as you so politicly correctly put it, are much higher than mine.

To be blunt, you have called me a slob hunter.
Let's get one thing straight here.

You are not going to walk away from this with some sort of hanndshake smiley and think it is all over.
I shake competitor's hands , freind's hands, and new aquaintance's hands - your are NONE of these.

I have no use for you , plain and simple, and by the way that you stated you did not know anny of those names mentioned, you likely have not been hunting for more than a few years and reallly have no clue of what you are doing
Take your internet smuggnesss and shove it because it isn't cutting any grease here with me.
Cat

Cowtown guy · #17 03-06-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearnDown

If hes close to muskeg, a cliff etc. why would you even think about taking a good shot (broadside, lung shot or head shot), nevermind a low percentage shot.

I gotta know how you can berate somebody for this and then claim that a head shot is a "good shot". That is not a high percentage shot.

I noticed that you have recently joined this forum. Go back a few years in the posts and read what Cat is all about. He is one of the first to offer help to anyone. He is an accomplished hunter and shooter.

Look up the names he has mentioned. Read some of what these men have accomplished.

Oh yeah ethics are like ...... well you know where that will lead.

#18 03-06-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Cowtown guy Quote:
Originally Posted by BearnDown
If hes close to muskeg, a cliff etc. why would you even think about taking a good shot (broadside, lung shot or head shot), nevermind a low percentage shot.

I gotta know how you can berate somebody for this and then claim that a head shot is a "good shot". That is not a high percentage shot.

I noticed that you have recently joined this forum. Go back a few years in the posts and read what Cat is all about. He is one of the first to offer help to anyone. He is an accomplished hunter and shooter.

Look up the names he has mentioned. Read some of what these men have accomplished.

Oh yeah ethics are like ...... well you know where that will lead.

Cowtown guy i think cat can stick up for himself.

Dick284 · #19 03-06-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river_runner

Cowtown guy i think cat can stick up for himself.

And your dog in this fight is where?

BearnDown · #20 03-06-2009, 10:25 AM

Well sorry to hear that Cat. You're absolutley right, I do think what you've posted here is indicitive of sloppy ethics, but at the end of the day thats your problem, I know I do it right and thats all that really matters to me.

Ya, I do figure head shots are very effective, under the right circumstances and at relativley close range.... on meat animals. Theres nothing nicer than dressing an animal thats got no holes in the body whatsoever, clean, no meat damage, no running after the shot.

I tried to smooth it over, you want to keep it up, do it with somebody else, I'm done with this thread.

Cowtown guy · #21 03-06-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river_runner

Cowtown guy i think cat can stick up for himself.

Oh I'm not worried about Cat, he does fine. I just needed to know about Beardown's comments regarding headshots. Cat made a statement about a certain situation. Now Beardown is telling us his certain situation that may end up maiming an animal is fine as long as a certain set of circumstances are involved. I can't buy that answer.
One or the other Beardown. Either completely foolproof or nothing you say. I have witnessed deer move their heads even at close range and have a piece blown off of them. Think how much a deer will suffer with a blown off jaw. Obviously that is not foolproof.
I agree with you though that we all should give as much respect as possible to the game in which we persue. BUT when it comes down to it we are hunting and we are out there to kill stuff. Sometimes it means making a decision. If I have the buck of my dreams in my sights and I think he might run into the river after hitting him in the lungs I will aim high shoulder and bust his shoulders. After he is down and not trying to swim away I will put one in the boiler room or the neck to finish him off. The animal will not suffer more than a few seconds and the meat wastage isn't alot either.

#22 03-06-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

And your dog in this fight is where?

Your asking why???

FishBrain · #23 03-06-2009, 02:32 PM

Holy crap, what was this topic about again?

FishBrain · #24 03-06-2009, 02:56 PM

OH yes now I see when I read the FIRST post.
I have had that couldn't get the shot off story, and you are right. It was because my rifle was slung on my shoulder and I was not ready for it. I quickly changed that after not being able to take down the animal, and now carry it in my arms whenever possible.
got my three animals this year while waiting in the ready position.

Tundra Monkey · #25 03-08-2009, 07:42 AM

Awwww man......I was all ready for this one when I walked into work this morning.....not quite as feisty today being Sunday and all.....but ready none the less

Best forum on the net

tm

coldredneck · #26 03-08-2009, 01:06 PM

Bearndown needs to hunt sheep or goat. When you have a trophy animal finally in range sitting on the edge of a 3000 ft cliff , the last thing you need to do is put one thru the boiler room and watch your animal take a 3000ft dive. The first thing you need to do is anchor it on the spot. A good sholder shot will most likely kill the animal on the spot but if it dosent at least you will have something to finish off with the second shot and not a messed up bag of ground meat and fur at the bottom. We all have a duty to take our animal in the most humane way possible but each situation is different and each one of us has to be prepared to make the best of that situation and live with the results.

elkhunter11 · #27 03-08-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Bearndown needs to hunt sheep or goat. When you have a trophy animal finally in range sitting on the edge of a 3000 ft cliff , the last thing you need to do is put one thru the boiler room and watch your animal take a 3000ft dive. The first thing you need to do is anchor it on the spot. A good sholder shot will most likely kill the animal on the spot but if it dosent at least you will have something to finish off with the second shot and not a messed up bag of ground meat and fur at the bottom. We all have a duty to take our animal in the most humane way possible but each situation is different and each one of us has to be prepared to make the best of that situation and live with the results.

I have killed both bighorn and mountain goat and I did use lung shots on both.Both dropped at the shot,but I added a second insurance shot anyways,since the terrain was very steep.I also watched another hunters mountain goat push itself over a cliff with it's hind legs,even though both front shoulders were broken.I choose lung shots when I can,but I choose a bullet such as the ballistic tip when hunting sheep or goat.They do tear up more meat,but the animal more often than not,drops at the shot,and doesn't try to get up again.

Tundra Monkey · #28 03-08-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldredneck

Bearndown needs to hunt sheep or goat. When you have a trophy animal finally in range sitting on the edge of a 3000 ft cliff , the last thing you need to do is put one thru the boiler room and watch your animal take a 3000ft dive. The first thing you need to do is anchor it on the spot. A good sholder shot will most likely kill the animal on the spot but if it dosent at least you will have something to finish off with the second shot and not a messed up bag of ground meat and fur at the bottom. We all have a duty to take our animal in the most humane way possible but each situation is different and each one of us has to be prepared to make the best of that situation and live with the results.

Spoken like someone I'd hunt sheep with......again

tm

coldredneck · #29 03-08-2009, 01:33 PM

Well personally I would break something major to anchor the animal rather then try for the "ethical " shot and watch it disappear in to a impossible to access spot and I can live with that.
Now please dont get me wrong here. I"m talking about a certain situation, not every situation. I'm not out there shooting everything I see in the ***** rather then waiting for the right shot. If you are sitting in a field watching a nice animal thats not going anywhere and have lots of time then of course we should wait and take the most effective shot when its presented.
Like I said before it all depends on the individual and the situation that presents itself.
All in all Duffy is right , if you dont want one of those it got away because I wasnt ready stories , then you need to be ready at all times.
Just my 2 cents

Dark Wing · #30 03-08-2009, 01:57 PM

This is all part of the learning process in developing your skills as a hunter. Shooting skills, shot placement, stand and blind set ups, scouting and the list goes on. The secret is to learn from your mistakes and I'm sure we've all made a few.