Bleaching a skull

[Prairiekid]

Where do you guys purchase your peroxide?
Do you use liquid or paste?
I tried to find some in town yesterday, Canadian Tire and Pharmasave. I didn’t have any luck though, unless I wanted the 3% first aid stuff.

[IronNoggin]

Hair Dressers / Beauty Salons.

I mix a handful of lightening powder (same source) with oil developer (12 % Hydrogen Peroxide) into a slurry, paint it on, stretch saran wrap over it all, let sit overnight then rinse. Works well as long as you've done your initial clean up and de-greasing properly.

Cheers,
Nog

[270person]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

Where do you guys purchase your peroxide?
Do you use liquid or paste?
I tried to find some in town yesterday, Canadian Tire and Pharmasave. I didn’t have any luck though, unless I wanted the 3% first aid stuff.

Phone any local to you chemical company and grab 10-20L of 17-29% hydrogen peroxide. 29's as strong as you can go without filling out gov't paperwork. If you were near me I'd help you out.

You can mess around using weak sauce peroxide and mixing pastes and watching the grass grow, or you can tape off the antlers a couple of inches from skull up and hang it in strong liquid peroxide for between 5 and 45 minutes. Done.

Wide enough rack and the antlers will keep it from falling into the pail/tub, or if you want to be particular paint the peroxide on with a cheap paint brush while the skull sits antlers up in a shallow plastic tub. Nothing too it.

I'm assuming you have all flesh chunks and debris removed and the skull has dried a bit.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Hair Dressers / Beauty Salons.

I mix a handful of lightening powder (same source) with oil developer (12 % Hydrogen Peroxide) into a slurry, paint it on, stretch saran wrap over it all, let sit overnight then rinse. Works well as long as you've done your initial clean up and de-greasing properly.

Cheers,
Nog

. This is your cheapest and maybe your best option. I just used the developer myself , it’s been a while since I’ve done a euro but I’m sure a bottle is under $10.

[Prairiekid]

Thanks for the help.

I boiled and cleaned up the skull a little big yesterday. Does it matter if you apply the peroxide a week later? If the skull was to yellow over time. . Could you apply it again?

[270person]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

Thanks for the help.

I boiled and cleaned up the skull a little big yesterday. Does it matter if you apply the peroxide a week later? If the skull was to yellow over time. . Could you apply it again?

It won't yellow once its bleached but you boiling it didn't help. That will drive oil and fat deeper. No idea why ppl do this. You can peroxide anytime really once the nasty bits are gone.

[alpineguy]

Hey Prairiekid, if your anywhere arounds Olds I will give you some. I have a 4 litre jug I got from a taxidermist a couple of years ago and have only used a little so far.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

I boiled and cleaned up the skull a little big yesterday. Does it matter if you apply the peroxide a week later? If the skull was to yellow over time. . Could you apply it again?

Should never boil them. Makes the bones weak & flaky. Instead simply simmer to soften the various muscles and tendons (and NO that will not "drive the oil & fat deeper").

Then add a good shot of Dawn dishwashing soap to the warm water and let sit for 48 hours or more. That will de-grease (remove) pretty well all of the fat & oil. Let dry for a few days and if any yellow appears, repeat the de-greasing process.

Once dry, apply the peroxide. The week between should not make a difference IF you de-greased properly.

Once accomplished it should not yellow again.

I've done literally over a hundred skulls with that method, and all have turned out very well (and stay that way).

Here is an example. A Book Polar Bear Skull I did many years ago. Looks exactly the same today:



Cheers,
Nog

[270person]

Prairiekid, the easiest and quickest method, the one used by most professional taxidermists, is to have the skull beetled (lots of those around), degrease/clean to remove droppings and minor organic matter, then hit it with a strong enough h202 to whiten and sanitize, deodorize. The peroxide will negate the need for long degrease sessions because it breaks down organic matter.

Assuming you have all of that organic material removed from the skull already, set it in the peroxide, the stronger the faster, rinse, then get a deodorizer/final sanitizer on it to kill any stench remaining. A simple household disinfectant will kill most of any remaining bacteria causing odors.

Bone is porous. By emulsifying oil and grease with heat you absolutely do run the risk of allowing it to redeposit deeper in the bone. It'll also help loosen teeth and potentially damage smaller bones, i.e. nasal cavitiy as previously stated. Better off just spraying it down with a proper degreaser if you feel the need, dish soap is so mildly alkaline that it will take a lot longer or require multiple applications, and allowing that to do its thing, then rinsing and bleaching with peroxide.

Stronger degreaser + stronger peroxide = less farting around time.

Beetle - clean/degrease - bleach - deodorize.

I've seen acceptable euro mounts accomplished with much gouging and hacking, trips to the wind wash, javex bleach dips, etc, and they looked ok, but save yourself the ugly grunt work of digging around in a skull for hours playing brain surgeon, making cwd stew, waiting for dish soap to do its thing, and weak sauce (because they have to be when used around human scalps) hair salon products to get the job done. Go industrial on it.

[freeride]

Originally Posted by 270person

Assuming you have all of that organic material removed from the skull already, set it in the peroxide, the stronger the faster, rinse, then get a deodorizer/final sanitizer on it to kill any stench remaining. A simple household disinfectant will kill most of any remaining bacteria causing odors

If it smells follow Nogs thinking and redo it again in the water bath/degreaser, there is organic material somewhere.... the clean bone wont smell after it's done. I am no expert at all, but my elk in the basement is white with a hint of lemony fresh to it.

[270person]

Originally Posted by freeride

If it smells follow Nogs thinking and redo it again in the water bath/degreaser, there is organic material somewhere.... the clean bone wont smell after it's done. I am no expert at all, but my elk in the basement is white with a hint of lemony fresh to it.

Lemony elk is awesome.

The smell will happen with the beetling process. Cant get around it. Walk into a beetle shed sometime. Damn. Great way to deflesh a skull but Whew. Not too tough to get rid of with a cleaning prior to the bleaching and a final sanitize. Beats picking away inside a skull for hours. Some of what's in there is tough to remove.

[freeride]

Originally Posted by 270person

Lemony elk is awesome.

The smell will happen with the beetling process. Cant get around it. Walk into a beetle shed sometime. Damn. Great way to deflesh a skull but Whew. Not too tough to get rid of with a cleaning prior to the bleaching and a final sanitize. Beats picking away inside a skull for hours. Some of what's in there is tough to remove.

True, I was only thinking of simmering the skull not beatles for the smell.

[IronNoggin]

When in doubt, refer to the professionals:

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php

That Forum has a great many folks who are extremely experienced with all things taxidermy, including euro mounts. And they share their information freely. I have found it to be of great service over the years and is something well worth looking into for any embarking into these projects.

Cheers,
Nog

[Prairiekid]

Originally Posted by alpineguy

Hey Prairiekid, if your anywhere arounds Olds I will give you some. I have a 4 litre jug I got from a taxidermist a couple of years ago and have only used a little so far.

I work in Calgary. If I didn't just get notified about having to be in isolation for the next 11 days I would take you up on it. Maybe I can afterwards.

[Prairiekid]

Thanks for the tips guys. I wish I had beetles but I live in a townhouse. My first run was on my buck from this year, it will likely spend its life outside. My wife shot a special deer this year and I will try to do a real thorough job on that one, and mount it.

[Springer]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Should never boil them. Makes the bones weak & flaky. Instead simply simmer to soften the various muscles and tendons (and NO that will not "drive the oil & fat deeper").

Then add a good shot of Dawn dishwashing soap to the warm water and let sit for 48 hours or more. That will de-grease (remove) pretty well all of the fat & oil. Let dry for a few days and if any yellow appears, repeat the de-greasing process.

Once dry, apply the peroxide. The week between should not make a difference IF you de-greased properly.

Once accomplished it should not yellow again.

I've done literally over a hundred skulls with that method, and all have turned out very well (and stay that way).

Here is an example. A Book Polar Bear Skull I did many years ago. Looks exactly the same today:



Cheers,
Nog

Hey Matt, Do you pull teeth and regale them in or anything..Not sure what everyone else does for this. I have a Bear i did long ago, one of my first attempts and over time it has lost a couple of the front teeth.
Cheers.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Springer

Hey Matt, Do you pull teeth and regale them in or anything..Not sure what everyone else does for this. I have a Bear i did long ago, one of my first attempts and over time it has lost a couple of the front teeth.
Cheers.

You can see from that picture the bear in question was very old. Numerous cavities, missing and cracked teeth. Methinks he would not have lasted a hell of a lot longer... Had to glue a couple of his into place.

Sometimes in the simmering process teeth will come lose and / or fall out. Not overly frequent, but can occur. Simply glue into place with Elmer's white glue (dries unseen) and good to go. Same can be done with older euro's such as yours.

I don't intentionally pull them unless obviously loose.

BTW, a diluted mix of the Elmer's and water makes a great cover finish for a euro. Dries damn near completely invisible, and certainly makes them a lot more robust. For more on that have a boo and search the taxidermy forum I listed above...

Cheers,
Nog

[AutumnAurora]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Hair Dressers / Beauty Salons.

I mix a handful of lightening powder (same source) with oil developer (12 % Hydrogen Peroxide) into a slurry, paint it on, stretch saran wrap over it all, let sit overnight then rinse. Works well as long as you've done your initial clean up and de-greasing properly.

Cheers,
Nog

Curious if you, or anyone else, have used this method (the developer paste painted on) on small skulls like marten, weasels, squirrels, muskrat, etc? Wondering if it would potentially be too harsh for thinner skull bones, or if that’s a non-issue? Or would you leave it on for less time maybe? Thanks

[270person]

Originally Posted by AutumnAurora

Curious if you, or anyone else, have used this method (the developer paste painted on) on small skulls like marten, weasels, squirrels, muskrat, etc? Wondering if it would potentially be too harsh for thinner skull bones, or if that’s a non-issue? Or would you leave it on for less time maybe? Thanks

Non issue. The salon creams aren't strong enough to be harmful to bone.

[Springer]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

You can see from that picture the bear in question was very old. Numerous cavities, missing and cracked teeth. Methinks he would not have lasted a hell of a lot longer... Had to glue a couple of his into place.

Sometimes in the simmering process teeth will come lose and / or fall out. Not overly frequent, but can occur. Simply glue into place with Elmer's white glue (dries unseen) and good to go. Same can be done with older euro's such as yours.

I don't intentionally pull them unless obviously loose.

BTW, a diluted mix of the Elmer's and water makes a great cover finish for a euro. Dries damn near completely invisible, and certainly makes them a lot more robust. For more on that have a boo and search the taxidermy forum I listed above...

Cheers,
Nog

Thanks Matt.
I have done a pile of them over the years but i still can't get them as professional as a Friend that uses Dermestid Beetles. A big part is the final finish on it. Not sure if he uses a Saton clear coat or what but man it looks amazing.
I had my Last Elk and Caribou done by Randy at Skull Crawlers by Rimbey Alberta.

[Prairiekid]

That Elk looks amazing.

Does anyone use a satin finish on the antlers to prevent fading?

Thanks

[AutumnAurora]

Originally Posted by 270person

Non issue. The salon creams aren't strong enough to be harmful to bone.

Great, thank you so much!

[IronNoggin]

Stellar job on that elk! Impressive!

Cheers,
Nog

[Prairiekid]

Finished up the simmering and cleaning process of the two skulls. I did the larger one first as it was my buck from this year. I wanted to practice before taking on the smaller one, which was from the buck my wife shot this year. It was quite special as she put in a lot of time to finding a bush buck and did some quite challenging still hunts and some quite cold sits. In the end we both got to be there when we found this guy, and it's probably my favourite day of hunting ever.

Unfortunately I underestimated how much fragile a younger bucks skull might be and broke the nasal bones off. I still have them and think I can attach them with glue.




I suck at posting photos here.

Maybe a hyperlink is good enough. https://imgur.com/a/2yer3Pw

[270person]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

Finished up the simmering and cleaning process of the two skulls. I did the larger one first as it was my buck from this year. I wanted to practice before taking on the smaller one, which was from the buck my wife shot this year. It was quite special as she put in a lot of time to finding a bush buck and did some quite challenging still hunts and some quite cold sits. In the end we both got to be there when we found this guy, and it's probably my favourite day of hunting ever.

Unfortunately I underestimated how much fragile a younger bucks skull might be and broke the nasal bones off. I still have them and think I can attach them with glue.




I suck at posting photos here.

Maybe a hyperlink is good enough. https://imgur.com/a/2yer3Pw

Nice deers. If you ever played pick up stix and were good at it then you might have a shot at those fine bones. Or you could just tape them in with band aids. Give him some character. Make him up like a Gerry Cheevers hockey mask.

[El Carnicero]

Originally Posted by 270person

It won't yellow once its bleached but you boiling it didn't help. That will drive oil and fat deeper. No idea why ppl do this. You can peroxide anytime really once the nasty bits are gone.

I have boiled every skull I've ever gotten plus a few sheet, lamb and goat skulls and every one of them turned out perfectly white, with no need to bleach them, and I've never used peroxide on any of mine.

I skinned out the heads, removed the eyes, excess muscling as best I could and anything extra that will come off without a struggle and then thrown it in the boiling pot. Once everything is loosened off enough, I pull it form the pot and pressure wash any excess tissue off and blow out the brain cavity with the pressure hose and I have a nice white skull. Let it sit in the sun for a day to dry out on a nice warm day or hang it in front of the garage heater if its cooler out. and it's done.
They come out looking white as a ghost. The only parts that aren't white are the small joints between the skull plates and they have a nice black line down them, which gives them a nice look.

I have never seen fat or grease be driven deeper into the skull by boiling my them, unless you are either boiling them with the hide on and it is holding the fat in, or boiling them and then letting them sit in the pot and not cleaning the bones right after a boil.

[AutumnAurora]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

That Elk looks amazing.

Does anyone use a satin finish on the antlers to prevent fading?

Thanks

I haven’t heard about using a varnish on the antlers specifically, but know a few people who use a matte or satin varnish spray on their skulls and really like it. Others have told me that it yellows over time. I can see that happening and imagine same goes for antlers? I haven’t tested this myself yet, but I’m an artist and have used artist quality spray varnishes before, that are “archival” quality meaning they do not yellow, protect from dust, dirt and sunlight and they can be removed (some with water, some with mineral spirit or turpentine). Personally I would trust the archival varnishes over any bought at a hardware store, but would get the ones that aren’t removed with water. Accidents happen haha