More Inconvenient Truth about Electric Vehicles

[Twisted Canuck]

They can really go a long way, as long as you don't mind not having any heat in the winter.

http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/314908

It is really becoming a cult of ideology, where facts don't matter much, and the more outrageous and absurd the claim, the bigger the grins on the euphoric faces of the true believers...

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-vehicle-crowd

Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....

[hogie]

EV still has a long way to go. Until we have a good source of clean electricity they really are not any better. Still have their own set of issues with battery pollution, making of and disposal. They are really only going to work well in large cities with certain climates for a while. Grid locked traffic moving at 10km per hour won't help much with electric vehicles. They need regenerative braking to help keep charge up.

I think the hybrid is much better alternative, electric in city then still have distance to travel long distances on fuel. Switch between the 2 as needed. Stuck in traffic for hours and still get home if you have fuel in the tank.

Eventually I think they may come out and be viable, but still years away. Just like the self driving car, only good for certain road conditions that are perfect.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

They can really go a long way, as long as you don't mind not having any heat in the winter.

http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/314908

It is really becoming a cult of ideology, where facts don't matter much, and the more outrageous and absurd the claim, the bigger the grins on the euphoric faces of the true believers...

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-vehicle-crowd

Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....

Great link and reality check. There was a big fan fare of a company committing to electric powered semi trucks.

Less emphasis on the commitment being $5000 refundable deposit and misssing critical leaps in technology to make it feasible.

[thumper]

Great articles. California really is another reality, isn't it!

Too bad all American 'journalists' think it's obligatory to slide in clever little jabs about Trump, to show how cool they are. I find it detracts from their stories. Our media elite have to slavishly follow as well ....

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....

As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).

[260 Rem]

Another “finger in the dike” thread.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Another “finger in the dike” thread.

Are you talking about Ontario?

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Scott h

As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).

Short distance warm weather commuting. Will work. London will be electric only metro in like 10 years or something like that. If you think of how many cars that is in major warm climate cities, pretty big market.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Scott h

As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).

Ah well then, I guess if downtown Vancouver has eliminated gas stations, the rest of the country, nay, the entire continent MUST soon follow suit. After all, driving across the Canadian prairies in the dead of winter is essentially the same as commuting in downtown Vancouver.....

As far as cheaper to own and operate...maybe some day when batteries are more efficient to build, store energy, and dispose of. Go check what it costs to replace batteries even in the hybrids after seven years and then figure out how much fuel you could have bought with that...

Someday, the EV is going to eliminate fossil fuel powered internal combustion vehicles, but it's not going to be in the next two years. The technology just isn't there yet. It will be the natural evolution of transportation and commuting though.

[vcmm]

Who is paying for all this?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/veh...ic/index.shtml
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/onta...sses-1.3722074
http://business.financialpost.com/tr...c-truck-demand

[Dubious]

I wonder back in the day when cars started to come on the market if people with horses and buggies where just as quick to point out the lack of gas stations and the short distances they could travel. Humanity will not be bound by the internal combustion engine for ever. Will cars be gone by 2020, no way but there days are numbered for sure.

[hilt134]

Aside from the coal burning that makes electricity and the what goes into batteries. Along with the short lifespan. My biggest issue with electric cars has to be the price. They just haven't broken the over head enough to make it worth it. Tesla is all good and well but not many people can afford a car with the amount of limitations they have.

[lmtada]

I like simplicity of electric motor. However for Canadians who travel anywhere remotely (western canadians🏕📬🇨&#127462. The infrastructure will require time. Just to convert 5-10% of automobile market to EV will take time (20 years). The remainder 90% will keep chugging away. Maybe after 2050-2070 the conversion maybe complete.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by lmtada

I like simplicity of electric motor. However for Canadians who travel anywhere remotely (western canadians🏕📬🇨&#127462. The infrastructure will require time. Just to convert 5-10% of automobile market to EV will take time (20 years). The remainder 90% will keep chugging away. Maybe after 2050-2070 the conversion maybe complete.

When a car can go from Calgary to a Edmonton to Red Deer on one charge in the middle of a minus 25 cold snap we will take notice in Canada.

[Trochu]

Guess I'll leave the Tesla at home during my upcoming Cannonball Run across the States, cause that is about 98% of my commuting you know.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Ah well then, I guess if downtown Vancouver has eliminated gas stations, the rest of the country, nay, the entire continent MUST soon follow suit. After all, driving across the Canadian prairies in the dead of winter is essentially the same as commuting in downtown Vancouver.....

As far as cheaper to own and operate...maybe some day when batteries are more efficient to build, store energy, and dispose of. Go check what it costs to replace batteries even in the hybrids after seven years and then figure out how much fuel you could have bought with that...

Someday, the EV is going to eliminate fossil fuel powered internal combustion vehicles, but it's not going to be in the next two years. The technology just isn't there yet. It will be the natural evolution of transportation and commuting though.

With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Scott h

With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!

No I didn't!!!!! I'm not bright enough to tell the difference between 24 and 60 in only 8 years!!!!!!

Does this mean all gas stations will be gone by 2020????? Would you like to bet me $5000 that there will at least one gas station left in the Dominion of Canada in two years??????

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!

What kind of KWH is needed to be equivalent to my chipped diesel that gets 900km a tank, and keep me warm in -40?

[MinMoose]

Originally Posted by Dubious

I wonder back in the day when cars started to come on the market if people with horses and buggies where just as quick to point out the lack of gas stations and the short distances they could travel. Humanity will not be bound by the internal combustion engine for ever. Will cars be gone by 2020, no way but there days are numbered for sure.

Good point.

[pikergolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=xknM7g9a7-g

[MinMoose]

There are quite of a few cold weather countries that don't think electric vehicles are a problem in the cold...

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...taxation-shift

[nick0danger]

Just think of all the infrastructure that will have to go into place to really make electric cars take over. I think in Calgary you would need plugs for every parking spot.
A cool feature on the TESLA cars, is you can turn on the heat while its plug in before you leave. This allows you to pre-heat the car on shore power and not use battery power. That feature would be required to be used in a climate like Calgary. I could not imagine coming out of SAIT today to a cold electric car and eat up power to heat it, one would think that would eat a huge portion of the battery.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Scott h

As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).

Yup, thst is true. Not single gas station left in "Downtown vancouver". Of course "downtown" is only about 3.75 sq/km and doesn't even equate to 4% of the City; not to mention the rest of metro Vancouver... there is no shortage of gss stations. As for London, yes it will br electric vehicle only soon but they swiftly are moving towards no vehicles will be interesting. Won't even need charging stations.

With over 2 million new cars sold in Canada in 2017 and similar in 2016, and probably again this year that means there will be 5.8 million (assuming 3% were electric) fossil fuel burning vehicles on the road til 2030 (given average life expectancy. Unless the government forces it on us.

Electric cars will be the future. But not for a long time. Even then, it all it will be doing is changing the source of the polution from end user supplier (unless the reported advancements in cold fusion are real)

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What kind of KWH is needed to be equivalent to my chipped diesel that gets 900km a tank, and keep me warm in -40?

You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????

[Twisted Canuck]

Scott, I think your '?' key may be stuck...maybe turn your keyboard upside down and bang it on your Xbox oe something, there may be a bit of Doritos stuck in there....

You're welcome.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????

That's right it's plugged in. Tell me how much a block heater draws?

Cost about $115 to fill. How much would it cost to juice up a battery with the same capabilities? Especially with projected electricity prices going through the roof?

Don't get me wrong, I know it's coming, but the tech just simply isn't feasible, and won't be for a few years.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????

Do you really think that once gas vehicles are gone that electricity will be cheap? Somebody's making money off it one way or another. Gas companies or electric we will pay. Try and keep it slightly cheaper to operate then the prices will go up. Parking in cities will be very costly . There will no free charging, only places doing this now is a publicity stunt. Cheap advertising. That's all that's happening with big companies commiting to green shift. Look at us we are buying electric vehicles that are not even close to being in production from companies selling products that can't be delivered.

Once electric vehicles Stop being subsidized then what? Already more expensive than comparable gas vehicle. In reality once they have be competitive to survive what will be the real operating costs? Will they be able to last 300000km without a battery or motor replacement? I'd say 80% of gas vehicles do that regularly with proper maintenance minus battery of course.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by hogie

Do you really think that once gas vehicles are gone that electricity will be cheap? Somebody's making money off it one way or another. Gas companies or electric we will pay. Try and keep it slightly cheaper to operate then the prices will go up. Parking in cities will be very costly . There will no free charging, only places doing this now is a publicity stunt. Cheap advertising. That's all that's happening with big companies commiting to green shift. Look at us we are buying electric vehicles that are not even close to being in production from companies selling products that can't be delivered.

Once electric vehicles Stop being subsidized then what? Already more expensive than comparable gas vehicle. In reality once they have be competitive to survive what will be the real operating costs? Will they be able to last 300000km without a battery or motor replacement? I'd say 80% of gas vehicles do that regularly with proper maintenance minus battery of course.

Speaking of batteries and replacing them. The simple lead acid battery for my forklift cost over $8k. I would hate to know what it costs to replace a fancy lithium battery in a car.

[Joe Black]

You don't buy new batteries. In 6 years you throw the batteries and the car I the landfill.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????

My diesel has an Espar. Starts just fine in -40 with no electricity. Any colder leaving it run all night works pretty good as well. Easy to sleep with the cummins purring outside over night. Comforting...

As much as Scott H from north van would like to have us believe the internal combustion engine's days are numbered, they are going to be around for a long time yet.
I won't see the days of electric construction, agricultural, mining, logging, oilfield, ect... equipment, as well as the vehicles that carry the required personal to those job sites. Sorry to burst your bubble Scott, but that's the way it is. You wanna cruise around downtown vancouver in an electric car, more power to ya. I could care less. Not a bad thing really. Electricity is needed, and in order to produce that electricity, more hydrocarbons are needed to fire the generating stations that are making it. Drive away Scott...do your part in keeping the oilpatch (and coal mines) going.