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Old 07-08-2018, 09:12 PM
Airdriedeck Airdriedeck is offline
 
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Exclamation Deck help

Hi! Hoping someone can help out:
We are building an attached 14x20 deck (attached on the 14ft side)
We have been given 4 2x8x14 beams and 4 2x8x8 beams by RONA.
We are assuming that we need to attach those beams doubled up to make 2 20ft beams and cut the excess off. If so, what spacing do we need between beams and from the edge of what the deck will be? How many posts would we need?

Any insight is appreciated! Thanks so much.
Ps: we also have a 6ft ledger on the other side of the house (cornered to the 14ft ledger)
Pps: none of the plans they gave us make sense for our size of deck and materials given

Last edited by Airdriedeck; 07-08-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:30 PM
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Nope nope nope. You wont be manufacturing a 20 beam out of 14 joists. The probable plan would be for one of those four 14 foot joists being anchored to the house and the other three to be sistered together to make your 14 beam that will be parallel to the house but probably about 17 away from the house. Joists will be suspended by joist hangars attached to the ledger board at the house and then will run over top of the triple-laminated beam. Attaching the ledger board to the house has a number of important considerations such as a flashing to keep precipitation controlled and fasteners of sufficient strength and length anchored into the existing framing rather than merely the exterior sheathing.

No offence, but based on these questions I think you should have an experienced person helping or advising, or hire a professional. It will be easier than having it done again as not all of your material will be able to be re-used.
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Last edited by CaberTosser; 07-08-2018 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:35 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Nope nope nope. You wont be manufacturing a 20 beam out of 14 joists. The probable plan would be for one of those four 14 foot joists being anchored to the house and the other three to be sistered together to make your 14 beam that will be parallel to the house but probably about 17 away from the house. Joists will be suspended by joist hangars attached to the ledger board at the house and then will run over top of the triple-laminated beam.

No offence, but based on your questions I think you should have an experienced person helping or advising, or hire a professional.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:40 PM
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Im probably way off on the distance there, I would bet that with 2 x 8s they wont be 20 long and that perhaps another beam is in order, even with a 48 cantilever over the beam that would have about 16 span to the house and that would be a bit too long of a span, it would be rather splashy in terms of spring and rebound. This isnt even counting what the plans are for the footings and support columns, and what height it is off the ground. Is it low enough that guardrails are not required or is it high enough that they will be? If it is elevated then there will be specific considerations for the support columns in terms of the depth of the hole. And Im not even a carpenter, though I am a plumber so I do have to deal with framing by knowing what can and what cannot be court out of my way
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Last edited by CaberTosser; 07-08-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:43 PM
Airdriedeck Airdriedeck is offline
 
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No offence at all...thank you for responding!
The deck is 2ft tall. The ledgers are already installed (by the builder)
We have 16 joists (2x8x14) aside from the beams listed in the original post.
I guess the question boils down to: what is the ideal spacing of the beams in this case scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Im probably way off on the distance there, I would bet that with 2 x 8s they wont be 20 long and that perhaps another beam is in order, even with a 48 cantilever over the beam that would have about 16 span to the house and that would be a bit too long of a span, it would be rather splashy in terms of spring and rebound. This isnt even counting what the plans are for the footings and support columns, and what height it is off the ground. Is it low enough that guardrails are not required or is it high enough that they will be? If it is elevated then there will be specific considerations for the support columns in terms of the depth of the hole. And Im not even a carpenter, though I am a plumber so I do have to deal with framing by knowing what can and what cannot be court out of my way
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:45 PM
Airdriedeck Airdriedeck is offline
 
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Thank you for the offer but I have spent all my money on the materials ha! I have someone experienced in building decks to help out but I want to figure out the post situation before they get here so I can get the holes dug and concrete poured in
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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
This!!!
If your in Calgary, I have a carpenter that will come and lend you a hand. Of course your going to pay him. But you will be working side by side and learning.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2018, 05:34 AM
jpohlic jpohlic is offline
 
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Rona should have supplied you with construction drawings if they sold you a deck package
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:22 AM
Sneeze Sneeze is offline
 
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Some guys (like me) earn our livings from knowing how to access and read the span tables - then design and construct functional products that work well.

I suggest paying a pro to assist you considering your question.

My advice is 2x8's at anything past a small span will be bouncy and they won't run anywhere near 20'.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:14 AM
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Attached = higher taxes ?
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:47 AM
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Ok , first off , I'm either reading/understanding this very wrong , or Rona has it very wrong .

If you are attached on the 14' side , then that would mean your deck will run 20' out into your yard .

If this is correct , then the way I see it , Rona has it all wrong !!!

Or did you state it incorrectly in your first post ?

You say that Rona has sent you

16pcs @ 2"x8"x 14'

4pcs @ 2"x8"x14' ( you say for beam)

2pcs @ 2"x8"x8' ( also for beam )

Looks to me like no question that this is a materials list for a deck that is 20' across the house and 14' out into the yard ..

IF... this is to go 20' out into the yard , then that changes things BIG time !!!

If I were you , I certainly wouldn't being doing a single thing further without getting a LOT more answers and understanding .
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:34 AM
Airdriedeck Airdriedeck is offline
 
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Yep! You read itl right (except there are 4 2x8x8s. This was my fear. I think they thought that their version of 20x14 (attached on the 20 side) could adapt well into my opposite plan. I was trying to figure out a way to make it work but Ill have to go to RONA and get them to provide a proper plan and/or get more materials for the deck.

Thanks! I was starting to think I was crazy haha


Quote:
Originally Posted by RBI View Post
Ok , first off , I'm either reading/understanding this very wrong , or Rona has it very wrong .

If you are attached on the 14' side , then that would mean your deck will run 20' out into your yard .

If this is correct , then the way I see it , Rona has it all wrong !!!

Or did you state it incorrectly in your first post ?

You say that Rona has sent you

16pcs @ 2"x8"x 14'

4pcs @ 2"x8"x14' ( you say for beam)

2pcs @ 2"x8"x8' ( also for beam )

Looks to me like no question that this is a materials list for a deck that is 20' across the house and 14' out into the yard ..

IF... this is to go 20' out into the yard , then that changes things BIG time !!!

If I were you , I certainly wouldn't being doing a single thing further without getting a LOT more answers and understanding .
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:43 AM
Feener86 Feener86 is offline
 
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For a deck that extends 20 ft from the ledger you would need 2 beams no matter what using dimensional lumber. Which means from what you are saying or what Im understanding you are about 8 pc 2x8x8 and 2 pc 2x8x14 short of building the deck. (using 16o/c joists). I assume you would be using 5/4x6 materials for decking.
For this you need at least 4 piles and posts and depending on the amount of weight you intend to put on the deck but I would normally use 3 posts per beam.
As mentioned before I think you need to get some professional help or at least have a pro draw it out for you with every detail so you dont cost yourself more money. Details that would also include doing the ledger and flashing properly so you dont rot out your house exterior prematurely or leave an issue for the next owner.
Just my 2 pennies...

Also, if you have a plan of some kind from rona maybe a pic would help, but in my experience they never account for double joists at the ends for railing or "picture framing" the decking nor the mid span blocking required. Which is why understanding all the details and having your own material list is always better then guessing how someone else might put it together ( properly or not)
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feener86 View Post
For a deck that extends 20 ft from the ledger you would need 2 beams no matter what using dimensional lumber. Which means from what you are saying or what Im understanding you are about 8 pc 2x8x8 and 2 pc 2x8x14 short of building the deck. (using 16o/c joists). I assume you would be using 5/4x6 materials for decking.
For this you need at least 4 piles and posts and depending on the amount of weight you intend to put on the deck but I would normally use 3 posts per beam.
As mentioned before I think you need to get some professional help or at least have a pro draw it out for you with every detail so you dont cost yourself more money. Details that would also include doing the ledger and flashing properly so you dont rot out your house exterior prematurely or leave an issue for the next owner.
Just my 2 pennies...

Also, if you have a plan of some kind from rona maybe a pic would help, but in my experience they never account for double joists at the ends for railing or "picture framing" the decking nor the mid span blocking required. Which is why understanding all the details and having your own material list is always better then guessing how someone else might put it together ( properly or not)
100% agree ....

2x8, using 16" O.C. will span anywhere from 10'-8" and 14'-2" depending on how your load rating pertains to your jurisdiction's building code (from 30 to 60 lbs per live load ft2).

Your drawings (assuming you obtained a permit) will include your span and cantilever detail. Most jurisdictions will require a permit for any and all structures secured to your home in excess of 100ft2 regardless of height. Height requirements often only pertain to the requirements surrounding rails and stairs. Either way .......

Typical cantilever allowances (at least here) are max 24" - so a 20' run out would equal a span from your ledger to your furthest out support beam which supports your joists is min 18'. That means you need 2 support beams if your joists are 2x8.

These 2 beams will run paralleled to your ledger.

In your case, your support beams will be placed at 18' and 9' out from the house.

A 2x8 @ 16" O.C. will allow you to span that distance.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:52 AM
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I'm not sure what's going on with the 8' boards that they gave you but if that was the material that I was given I'd use the 4 - 14' boards screwed together for 2 beams for the frame to sit on. Since you can't get 20' boards, I'd build the frame in two 14' x 10' sections and attach the sections together on top of the beams. You'd only need 6 footings with this design.

There many be better ways of doing it but this is how I imagine the first 10' section looking like.

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Old 07-09-2018, 12:16 PM
Suzukisam Suzukisam is offline
 
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If in Alberta all beams must be triple. Not double even if floating ground deck by code
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:06 PM
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Attached deck usually needs Engineered stamped drawings for a permit or inspection.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:10 PM
Suzukisam Suzukisam is offline
 
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Engineer stamp only if above 8 feet high
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzukisam View Post
If in Alberta all beams must be triple. Not double even if floating ground deck by code
Nope
https://www.edmonton.ca/residential_...on_handout.pdf
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:54 PM
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You are not going to find 20' 2x8's so the one, and only accepted method, that will pass building inspection will be lapping the joists over your first support beam.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:19 AM
Coyotebutcher Coyotebutcher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Im probably way off on the distance there, I would bet that with 2 x 8s they wont be 20 long and that perhaps another beam is in order, even with a 48 cantilever over the beam that would have about 16 span to the house and that would be a bit too long of a span, it would be rather splashy in terms of spring and rebound. This isnt even counting what the plans are for the footings and support columns, and what height it is off the ground. Is it low enough that guardrails are not required or is it high enough that they will be? If it is elevated then there will be specific considerations for the support columns in terms of the depth of the hole. And Im not even a carpenter, though I am a plumber so I do have to deal with framing by knowing what can and what cannot be court out of my way
For spans and spacing you would need to consult a building code span table. Also I am a journeyman carpenter and have built many decks, and with the questions you have, I would strongly recommend a proffesional
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:20 AM
Coyotebutcher Coyotebutcher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma View Post
Attached deck usually needs Engineered stamped drawings for a permit or inspection.
Any deck less than 600mm off the ground needs no permit.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:40 PM
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Default After you sort out your plan...

Here is a tip for ease of construction. Lubricate your deck screws with bar soap to reduce binding.

Free
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:09 PM
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Tell me you have poured piles at least
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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sorry just re-read your original post - I agree Rona did not give you the right lumber.

If your ledger attached to the house is 14' and your deck runs 20' into your yard .... here is what you will need .....

2 support beams, each with 3 posts supporting them. Your posts will be a 6x6 pressure treated post. Your support beam will be made up of 3 pcs glued and screwed together of 2x8 or 2x10 dimensional lumber equal to the width of your deck (14') x 2. I'd use 16' pcs as your deck may end up an inch or two wider depending on a number of factors - you can always run the supports long, square up the ends. The cost difference is minor.

Your post, and support beam material list is .....

6 pcs - 6"x6"x8' pressure treat posts (piles must be no less than 48" below grade) You may want to drill deeper and get longer posts.

6 pcs - 2"x8"x16' or 2"x10"x16' to assemble 2 support beams

Your support beams should be fastened to your posts using a post to beam connector. These are the galvanized pcs. found in the lumber section - you can also use saddles.

Joists

On a 20' deck - Using a 12" cantilever off the end, you are spanning 19'. Divide 19' by two rows of support beams, you will have a support beam at 9'-6" and the second at 19'-0" parallel to your ledger on your home.

Your joists will be 2"x8"x12' (or you can use 2x10 to get a stiffer deck) and you will need them to be 16" on centre.

The joists will be fastened to your ledger on your home using joist hangers.

The other end of the 12' joists will rest on the first support beam closest to your house and overhang (or lap) that support beam by about ~24".

Place your next set of joists right beside the first row of joists. There will 12" of overhang (run a line level) on the second support beam (the one 19' out from the house). The end of the joist running back to the first support beam will "overlap" (lay beside) the other joists and run ~24" past this support beam and back to the house.

You should cut and "fill in" the laps on the outside edge of the deck for structural and cosmetic purposes both inside and out.

If you need a drawing PM me and I will make you one.

Good luck.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:10 PM
Suzukisam Suzukisam is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP View Post
Check your location of build. Example Leduc https://www.leduc.ca/sites/default/f...Aug%202015.pdf
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  #26  
Old 07-10-2018, 06:16 PM
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Airdriedeck...

Another " Important note " re the ledger ... you said the builder already installed it at time of house building ... that's pretty common ... mostly done so that it's in place at the time the siding/stuco etc is done... but what else is common , is that they will only screw it to the house .

A ledger must be fastened using " Lag bolts " as per code .


EZM...( I am not criticizing , just discussing )

It sounds like you are suggesting that the 6x6 posts be set into the ground .

I'm not 100% sure if its code for cement piles on a residential deck ( I know it is on a commercial property )

But I would strongly suggest them , as a cement pile won't rot

( cement ) piles should be ( same as you said for the 6x6's ) 48" or deeper.

And finish above grade, with a sona-tube (with a saddle set into the cement ) .

Then the ( much shorter )6x6's to the beams ( OP stated his deck is only 2' high )

Airdriedeck ... one more tip ... if you don't already have them on site ... and you are doing your own pick up...don't grab your deck boards until you are right ready to install them . and only as many as you will install in one or two days .

I suggest this because .... if as you say , you are doing this yourself ( no experience ) , and a friend ( with experince ) , It's going to take you longer than you think ...

I'm not sure if this is a weekend and evening type build , or if you have several days off ,
I'm guessing your deck boards are 2x6 x14'/16' or 5/4x 14'/16' ... and they end up sitting around for a while , they won't be as pretty as you thought they were. in the beginning .

If THEY deliver, THEY pick ,you get what you get ...If YOU pick-up , YOU pick-out, you get YOUR choice

Really sucks trying to lay down a nice straight deck with warped, bowed or twisted lumber .

If ... you are going all out and buying composite deck boards , then just ignore this last paragraph .

Enjoy
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzukisam View Post
Check your location of build. Example Leduc https://www.leduc.ca/sites/default/f...Aug%202015.pdf
Exactly. It's a municipal thing not a provincial thing.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:23 PM
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Dewey Cox Dewey Cox is offline
 
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Did this guy create an account on the Alberta Outdoorsman Forum for the sole purpose of asking for advice on building a deck?
He should be sent a bill for consultation services.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom55 View Post
Here is a tip for ease of construction. Lubricate your deck screws with bar soap to reduce binding.



Free


Screw Lube works better... its right beside Blinker Fluid at Canadian Tire.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotebutcher View Post
Any deck less than 600mm off the ground needs no permit.
Whether the OP does or doesn't need a permit, I think it's pretty obvious that he has no intention of getting one .
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