Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:40 PM
buckbrush's Avatar
buckbrush buckbrush is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 680
Default Over the counter EpiPen

Going over the camping first aid kit and having a discussion with my wife. Following a run in with a wasp nest she had a lot of swelling, doctor said it's nothing to worry about. This got me thinking though. I like to keep a pretty well stocked kit and think having an EpiPen would be good to have on hand. I had talked to my doctor about it a few years ago and he said it wouldn't be an issue to give me a prescription but mentioned that it could make my life insurance cost go up if I was prescribed one and also said the shelf life is pretty low.

Is there any way to get one over the counter?
It might seem like a pointless thing to keep if no one is known to be allergic in the party but would be nice to have if needed.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:47 PM
Jays toyz Jays toyz is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 339
Default

You can get one from your pharmacist. A few hundred and a year or 2 shelf life.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-10-2018, 11:42 PM
expedition expedition is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 409
Default

Storage can be a pain . Cannot be exposed to direct sunlight. Cannot be stored below 10c i think and cannot be stored above 30c. If i remember correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-10-2018, 11:44 PM
Bigrib Bigrib is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 159
Default

A friends teen son got bit twice on the face and neck last week by run of the mill paper wasps , he started going into full blown anaphalactic shock and would have died 100% if the hospital wasn't 15 mins away . Airway closing up and irregulary heartbeat . Now he has to carry a bigger epipen until the frost season comes .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:12 AM
Father of five Father of five is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 190
Default

I always have an epipen close by
They are about $100 each
They rarely have a shelf life longer than 18 months
And unless youíre married to the pharmacist you will need a prescription

Oh and if you think $100 is a bit high you can always go to the USA to buy one where they cost $250 each
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:25 AM
expedition expedition is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father of five View Post
I always have an epipen close by
They are about $100 each
They rarely have a shelf life longer than 18 months
And unless youíre married to the pharmacist you will need a prescription

Oh and if you think $100 is a bit high you can always go to the USA to buy one where they cost $250 each
You know that 250 us should be criminal! The cost of production is 10 us
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2018, 06:36 AM
Black Feather's Avatar
Black Feather Black Feather is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 93
Default

On top of what others have said about storage, keep in mind that an adult Epi-Pen only lasts 10 - 20 minutes before symptoms can return. If the Epi-Pen is for the woods, consider picking up 2 - 3 of them if you're a ways from a hospital.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:12 AM
makin tracks makin tracks is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 153
Default

would packing benadryl be effective as in, will it work fast enough?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:14 AM
Skoaltender's Avatar
Skoaltender Skoaltender is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by expedition View Post
You know that 250 us should be criminal! The cost of production is 10 us
There was a special on tv about the epipen bs. From my understanding the company Mylan who produced the pen increased the price over 500% in a 9 year span. Pushing the two pack price from $94usd to upwards of $600 while descreasing shelf life as well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:48 AM
3blade's Avatar
3blade 3blade is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,705
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by makin tracks View Post
would packing benadryl be effective as in, will it work fast enough?
No it wonít be fast enough to replace epi, but it lasts longer. Anyone with severe allergies should have both.
__________________
DEER!!! No...nope. Hay bale.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:05 AM
R3illy R3illy is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 590
Default

I had popped into a pharmacy a few months ago to try and buy one without a prescription but they wouldnt allow it. They checked stock and said they had 4 or 5.

So i went to the drs got the prescription for 2 but was denied when i went to the pharmacy the next day even tho they had a bunch. I told the pharmacist i knew they had inventory and that it was life and death for myself and my family if they didnt fill it for me.

Guy didnt care.. refused to fill the prescription. Told me to go elsewhere if it was urgent. He went on and gave me a bunch of excuses why they needed to keep their inventory.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:30 AM
Off in the Bushes's Avatar
Off in the Bushes Off in the Bushes is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 1,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by makin tracks View Post
would packing benadryl be effective as in, will it work fast enough?
To my understanding Benadryl only masks the symptoms of the reaction but a Epipen actually stops the reaction.
There are two type of reactions when H1 and H2 the Epipen only stops the H1 that why you are still required to see emergency when you have a reaction to help suppress the H2 reaction. I am by no means a medical expert, just a parent that has a severely allergic child and this is what I have gleaned from numerous visits to the ER.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:36 PM
Black Feather's Avatar
Black Feather Black Feather is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 93
Default

I can give a brief overview of anaphylaxis and an explanation of how Epinephrine and Benadryl each work in the body to clear up any confusion on the subject.

Essentially, anaphylaxis is an overreaction of your immune system to a specific allergen that results in your body releasing a bunch of cells and proteins, as well as histamines (which cause cells to release fluid and swell). This excessive immune system reaction causes symptoms like tightening of airways, swollen throat, wheezing, difficulty breathing, coughing, hives, swelling, hypotension (low BP), etc.

Epinephrine combats these life threatening problems by stimulating different adrenergic receptors in your body. The stimulation of these receptors causes constriction of the veins (thereby increasing blood pressure and reducing swelling), increasing heart rate and strength, and relaxes the muscle tissue of the lungs. Epinephrine injected will take effect in <2 mins, but as I stated before, it only lasts about 10-20 minutes, so consider carrying more than one if you are a long way from the hospital.

Benadryl is an antihistamine that is used to relieve the symptoms of allergic reactions like swelling, running nose, and watery eyes. It does this by preventing the histamines from attaching to cells in your body. So it's not that it "masks" the anaphylaxis, it just does not treat the life threatening aspect of the reaction (constricted airways and hypotension), and it takes a lot longer for it's peak effect (30 min - 1 hour).

In summary, Epinephrine is your primary life-saving drug and Benadryl is your secondary drug used to treat non-life threatening symptoms of severe allergic reactions. Hope that clears some stuff up.

Source: Paramedic
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:50 PM
^v^Tinda wolf^v^'s Avatar
^v^Tinda wolf^v^ ^v^Tinda wolf^v^ is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,625
Default

I looked into it as well becuase I donít know if my youngin is allergic yet and we spend a lot of time away from civilization. My doc said no I canít give you one and Iíd pretty much have to find out the hard way. I tried.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:11 PM
Black Feather's Avatar
Black Feather Black Feather is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^ View Post
I looked into it as well becuase I donít know if my youngin is allergic yet and we spend a lot of time away from civilization. My doc said no I canít give you one and Iíd pretty much have to find out the hard way. I tried.
I would reccomend going to a couple walk in clinics. Explain your situation, highlighting the fact that you're away from civilization for extended periods of time. I'm sure one would write the orders for it. Make a day of it.. worst they can say is no.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:23 PM
R3illy R3illy is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 590
Default

there is an epi pen shortage.. it was bad enough after my pharmacy denied my prescription that it hit the news..
dont assume youll get one at the moment.

Hopefully the shortage is fixed.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:29 AM
Arachnodisiac's Avatar
Arachnodisiac Arachnodisiac is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pincher Creek, Alberta
Posts: 2,538
Default

Definitely carrying some epi is not a bad idea.

And honestly, I would carry at least two as if it is a severe reaction, the first injection may wear off, for lack of a better term. And don't necessarily wait for airway compromise. You're looking for a systemic reaction involving more than one organ system. For example, hives and an itchy throat, rash and GI upset, etc. But with any swelling of the face/mouth, I wouldn't hesitate.

(This is not official medical advice, and your wife should have allergy tests done. Always follow the advice of your physician and the manufacturer's and pharmacist's instructions.)

And yes, benadryl is a good idea too, but it does not negate the need for epi in true anaphylaxis.
__________________
There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed. ~ Ernest Hemingway

www.sherimonk.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:15 AM
Off in the Bushes's Avatar
Off in the Bushes Off in the Bushes is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 1,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac View Post
I would carry at least two as if it is a severe reaction, the first injection may wear off, for lack of a better term.
Some epipens have two doses for injection.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:02 AM
makin tracks makin tracks is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 153
Default

just a what if, a bottle of benadryl is cheap compared to an epi pen, couls you take a teaspoon every couple hours, no idea just a thought. as epi pens are $150 apiece or more.


best bet is to be watchful and quit jumping up n down flailing away at the wasps.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:19 PM
RBI RBI is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,026
Default

Just talked with Brentwood Co-o.o pharmacy.
They said epipens are available over the counter for $ 110.00
__________________
I don't care what your religion or political beliefs are ....

Just use your damn turn signal !!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:55 PM
Peter Abelard Peter Abelard is offline
Suspended User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by makin tracks View Post
would packing benadryl be effective as in, will it work fast enough?
Prize goes to you.

There's no evidence of allergy here.

For precautionary purposes, Benadryl should be sufficient.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:08 PM
bat119's Avatar
bat119 bat119 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 5,104
Default

I've been stung a few times with no serious affects, I don't remember ever being tested for allergies. Did I miss a test somewhere in the past? or is the only way to find out is to get stung?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:17 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,025
Default

Often it is the cumulative effect. Like the straw that broke the camels back. You just don't know when that will happen....Being stung 15 times and nothing but the 16th time a reaction....a head scratcher for sure.

My brother-in-law used aspirin all his life and one night he needed one and poof an anaphylactic reaction on his front lawn. He lived when EMS have him a shot of Epinephrine.

Other adult friends having death allergies to eggs, wasp, bees (both can be different), kiwi fruit.......long list.

My son has a death allergy to a couple of foods, peanuts included. He carries an epi-pen all the time. It was only luck that we discovered it; he was very young and had licked peanut butter on his finger, I witnessed the whole thing.

The expired pens are still better than no epi-pen at all; the dose may not be as strong as a fresh one, but it still has some quality to it.

The other thing is the people around you knowing about your allergy and how to use the pen. There are plenty of video's and information to help.

Some of the real old pens we had, we used them to show his friends and family how to administer them....using an epi-pen and an orange...

Equip yourself; no taking chances here.

An epi-pen is $110 and fuel is $1.38L.....you need both to survive.....
__________________
Life is like baseball; it is the number of times you reach home safely, that counts.

Last edited by graybeard; 07-13-2018 at 10:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.