School system

[topgun2269]

The only profession that I have yet see automate even a little.

Yes there have been cuts but only to the secondary part of the system.

We need to look at how we can improve the total system, its actually old and needs a rebuild

Laptops from grade one on!!! do your test click send get your results.

this will help the marking system by 90% efficiencies.

do we still need text books???? put it all on line.

Your pay should be determined on how your kids do at the end of the year!!!

Bonus structure. If you dont like teaching we will know very soon.


Robots for welding robots for the food industry

How about cutting down on teachers with automation?? I would have rather watched a video in school than listen to a teacher. (just saying)

Im not trying to bash,we need to automate.


I have heard all the poor me situations!!! spend the night marking papers??? on line done 30 second feed back results.

Its a great job if its something you love to do!!! if you dont, please dont complain ,you went to University go back and change your career path.

Teachers should be a year to year contract... if your kids do well you do well. If the kids are not getting the proper results you should be pulled on the carpet and be ready to answer. You are paid very very well, there has to be some accountability.

Your union is one of the strongest I have ever seen. Still has to be results driven...

[Dewey Cox]

Talk like that is going to put you in detention.

[JB_AOL]

WHile I somewhat agree, The Classroom is not where it needs to happen.

FTR, my kids (k-6) do alot of work on chromebooks, even about 30% of tests. I think that is a school specific thing though.

Ex #1, did you know that teachers receive a monthly retirement fund letter? Yep, you read that right, a physical letter is sent out to each teacher every month. Ever heard of email? Bang, instant savings of millions.

How about that stupid lease they signed for the building downtown that the total money paid for the lease after 20years is worth more than it would've cost to buy/build the place. #1, why does CBE headquarters need to be downtown (hint, it doesn't). #2 WTF.. Any other business would've not signed the lease.

Oh, how about that warehouse in south calgary that is full of unused teaching aides (I don't mean actual people, but "tools").

I also heard from some sales reps that they don't bid out their equipment. Ie, computers they pay MRSP, even though everyone else in the world pays less when bulk ordering.

[artie]

Originally Posted by topgun2269

The only profession that I have yet see automate even a little.

Yes there have been cuts but only to the secondary part of the system.

We need to look at how we can improve the total system, its actually old and needs a rebuild

Laptops from grade one on!!! do your test click send get your results.

this will help the marking system by 90% efficiencies.

do we still need text books???? put it all on line.

Your pay should be determined on how your kids do at the end of the year!!!

Bonus structure. If you dont like teaching we will know very soon.


Robots for welding robots for the food industry

How about cutting down on teachers with automation?? I would have rather watched a video in school than listen to a teacher. (just saying)

Im not trying to bash,we need to automate.


I have heard all the poor me situations!!! spend the night marking papers??? on line done 30 second feed back results.

Its a great job if its something you love to do!!! if you dont, please dont complain ,you went to University go back and change your career path.

Teachers should be a year to year contract... if your kids do well you do well. If the kids are not getting the proper results you should be pulled on the carpet and be ready to answer. You are paid very very well, there has to be some accountability.

Your union is one of the strongest I have ever seen. Still has to be results driven...

So I take it your with the Kenny party

[Roderek]

My wife had to upgrade her Chemistry as she wanted to go back to school, we found some great videos on You tube that helped way more then what she learned in the classroom.

In todays world most kids go to You Tube when they need to learn how to do something. It is an interesting idea, that you make lesson plan video's based on the curriculum. You would still need a teacher in the room to supervise or answer questions, but class sizes could be 40 or 50. Kids come in put on head phones watch the video at there own pace. At the end of each lesson there would be a short review that the student would have to complete in order to mark progress. They would have the ability to watch the video at home if they missed a class, or needed to review.

If there was anything hand written that needed to be marked, the teachers could be doing that while supervising the class and answering questions.

[topgun2269]

great response

[bobtodrick]

I love these posts...except of course for the NIMBY factor.
Yeah, "lets automate and put them out of work", are about the same number as the "what am I going to do, they just laid me off" posts that show up here.
Always good to save money as long as it's the other guy losing his income.
(and no, I'm not a teacher)
I take you'd have no issue topgun if they automate your job and put you on the dole?

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I love these posts...except of course for the NIMBY factor.
Yeah, "lets automate and put them out of work", are about the same number as the "what am I going to do, they just laid me off" posts that show up here.
Always good to save money as long as it's the other guy losing his income.
(and no, I'm not a teacher)
I take you'd have no issue topgun if they automate your job and put you on the dole?

I agree. But am somewhat torn on the issue. Alot of people work in the public sector so they have more "stability". Which IMHO is a crock, because less private sector people working = less money for the gov't, which means public cutbacks there as well. Not to mention there's so much inefficiency in the school system (like all the stuff I mentioned previously).

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

How about that stupid lease they signed for the building downtown that the total money paid for the lease after 20years is worth more than it would've cost to buy/build the place. #1, why does CBE headquarters need to be downtown (hint, it doesn't). #2 WTF.. Any other business would've not signed the lease.

We were talking about that contract last night around the table. Widely regarded as the worst (for the tenant) real estate deal in Calgary history.

But yes, front line cut's are all Kenny's fault.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I love these posts...except of course for the NIMBY factor.
Yeah, "lets automate and put them out of work", are about the same number as the "what am I going to do, they just laid me off" posts that show up here.
Always good to save money as long as it's the other guy losing his income.
(and no, I'm not a teacher)
I take you'd have no issue topgun if they automate your job and put you on the dole?

Agree!

[nick0danger]

My question is why, did the Calgary Catholic system not do 1 layoff? From the information I have no other school board did a layoff (could be wrong).

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by nick0danger

My question is why, did the Calgary Catholic system not do 1 layoff? From the information I have no other school board did a layoff (could be wrong).

What’s the easiest way to make parents mad and try to get them on your side? Could cut the crap at the top but then public wouldn’t be mad. Makes cuts on the backs of the hardworking teachers which are needed and overworked. .

[BEL]

Wow!!! What gives you the idea the ATA is very strong? Very weak as far as I am concerned, almost useless in fact. BEL

[oilngas]

Why do we have two public school systems? Why are school grounds built as standalone real estate? Why are school designs not standardized / modular and changed / upgraded say every 7 or 8 years? Like other have said use computer learning for say 70% of the curriculum. No books, just flash drives that can be updated say every year. Why do we bus Urban kids, if you wanna live far from a school, you get em to school. Run the school buildings say 12 hours a day, i.e. two shifts, or at least make use of the building more than 8 hours a day.

[kcoderre]

This will be unpopular and maybe a bit eye opening for most people but here it is.

The fact is that unless you have actually been in a classroom, you have no idea what challenges are faced in one. The idea of a video to watch is fine, in fact I record my lessons each day and post them on YouTube for my students to use to review, or if they were absent, but that doesn't replace a teacher. Here is the reality of a classroom:

1. In a class of 30 students there is incredible diversity in learning styles and abilities. (and yes 30 students is a common number, not a good one but a common one).
2. In that class of 30 students, there will be at least 6 students with special learning needs (ADHD, dyslexia, below average processing abilities etc)
3. In that class of 30 students, there will be at least 6 students whose first language is not English, some of whom may not speak English at all.
4. In that class of 30 students there will be 3 kids who have some type of past trauma or poor home life that inhibits there ability to learn, (this can range from emotional and/or physical abuse to poverty) and these situations affect not only learning but behavior as well.
5. In that class of 30 students there will be at least 3 students suffering from some type of mental illness for which they may or may not be medicated.
6. In that class of 30 students there will be at least 1 student with an addiction problem.

I'm lucky, I work in a place where each and every student is valued, cared for, treated as a unique person with their own gifts and challenges and each one of those kids is treated with respect and yes, love. Where I work, treating each student with love and respect is an expectation because every kid needs that, and not all kids get it at home for whatever reason. That is the reality of a classroom. The toughest kids, the kids others see as "bad" are the ones who need that love the most. Where I work, they get that, even, no especially, the ones who are the hardest to love.

You know where I work? In a school. I know not every school is the same, not every teacher is like the ones I am fortunate enough to work with, but the vast majority of us love what we do, we love the kids we teach and we want to help them learn and grow. We help kids before school, over lunch hour and after school, we volunteer our time to coach sports and run clubs. We spend our own money so that the kid who comes to school hungry every day can at least eat a granola bar and piece of fruit in the morning. We dry the tears of the kid whose parents just split up.

You don't get diversity of learning experiences through automation, you don't get effective feedback from machine scored tests, and you don't get the nurturing influence of a good teacher from a video.

Food for thought.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Roderek

My wife had to upgrade her Chemistry as she wanted to go back to school, we found some great videos on You tube that helped way more then what she learned in the classroom.

In todays world most kids go to You Tube when they need to learn how to do something. It is an interesting idea, that you make lesson plan video's based on the curriculum. You would still need a teacher in the room to supervise or answer questions, but class sizes could be 40 or 50. Kids come in put on head phones watch the video at there own pace. At the end of each lesson there would be a short review that the student would have to complete in order to mark progress. They would have the ability to watch the video at home if they missed a class, or needed to review.

If there was anything hand written that needed to be marked, the teachers could be doing that while supervising the class and answering questions.

Very similar ideas have already been tried and are happening now. The main problem that keeps coming up is discipline. Success rates are very low, as a high percentage of kids can't handle this type of environment as they don't have the personal discipline to work independently.

Really, how many adults do? I have taken some college courses through distance learning and it can be a grind. Lots of adults don't have the discipline to do it. Generally, kids have a lot less discipline than us, not more.


We all know adults at work that need constant supervision, or they do nothing. Imagine what they were like when they were 12.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by kcoderre

This will be unpopular and maybe a bit eye opening for most people but here it is.

The fact is that unless you have actually been in a classroom, you have no idea what challenges are faced in one. The idea of a video to watch is fine, in fact I record my lessons each day and post them on YouTube for my students to use to review, or if they were absent, but that doesn't replace a teacher. Here is the reality of a classroom:

1. In a class of 30 students there is incredible diversity in learning styles and abilities. (and yes 30 students is a common number, not a good one but a common one).
2. In that class of 30 students, there will be at least 6 students with special learning needs (ADHD, dyslexia, below average processing abilities etc)
3. In that class of 30 students, there will be at least 6 students whose first language is not English, some of whom may not speak English at all.
4. In that class of 30 students there will be 3 kids who have some type of past trauma or poor home life that inhibits there ability to learn, (this can range from emotional and/or physical abuse to poverty) and these situations affect not only learning but behavior as well.
5. In that class of 30 students there will be at least 3 students suffering from some type of mental illness for which they may or may not be medicated.
6. In that class of 30 students there will be at least 1 student with an addiction problem.

I'm lucky, I work in a place where each and every student is valued, cared for, treated as a unique person with their own gifts and challenges and each one of those kids is treated with respect and yes, love. Where I work, treating each student with love and respect is an expectation because every kid needs that, and not all kids get it at home for whatever reason. That is the reality of a classroom. The toughest kids, the kids others see as "bad" are the ones who need that love the most. Where I work, they get that, even, no especially, the ones who are the hardest to love.

You know where I work? In a school. I know not every school is the same, not every teacher is like the ones I am fortunate enough to work with, but the vast majority of us love what we do, we love the kids we teach and we want to help them learn and grow. We help kids before school, over lunch hour and after school, we volunteer our time to coach sports and run clubs. We spend our own money so that the kid who comes to school hungry every day can at least eat a granola bar and piece of fruit in the morning. We dry the tears of the kid whose parents just split up.

You don't get diversity of learning experiences through automation, you don't get effective feedback from machine scored tests, and you don't get the nurturing influence of a good teacher from a video.

Food for thought.

Bingo...everyone here who thinks teachers are so easily replaceable should spend a week in a classroom and see what it is really like.
Pretty much can guarantee that those that think it so easy did poorly in school. The old 'garbage in, garbage out'...if you don't put any effort into your schooling of course your going to blame the teachers.
Talk to just about any exceptional student...they all have a teacher/teachers they credit with their success.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by kcoderre

SNIP...

Food for thought.

Well said.

I had the mentality of teachers have so much time off, paid to much, etc... until my wife started working at my kids school as an EA for the PUFF program. was that ever eye opening.

You couldn't pay me enough to do that... Kudos (and thanks) to those that do.

I personally think it's just a case of a "business" that has to much overhead, and not enough people willing to find cost-saving solutions (which is code for "not stir **** up").

[bloom]

Originally Posted by riden

Very similar ideas have already been tried and are happening now. The main problem that keeps coming up is discipline. Success rates are very low, as a high percentage of kids can't handle this type of environment as they don't have the personal discipline to work independently.

Really, how many adults do? I have taken some college courses through distance learning and it can be a grind. Lots of adults don't have the discipline to do it. Generally, kids have a lot less discipline than us, not more.


We all know adults at work that need constant supervision, or they do nothing. Imagine what they were like when they were 12.

Adults doing online classes have a lower success rate then when they are in front of a teacher (Contact any College to find out their success rates when students do the course through Distance Learning compared to being in the class). The numbers for high school age students are even worse. And some here want to make this the norm for Grades 1-12? Try a course through ADLC and see how easy it is on your own. Online learning is there to support schools, not to be the norm.

[riden]

Originally Posted by bloom

Adults doing online classes have a lower success rate then when they are in front of a teacher (Contact any College to find out their success rates when students do the course through Distance Learning compared to being in the class). The numbers for high school age students are even worse. And some here want to make this the norm for Grades 1-12? Try a course through ADLC and see how easy it is on your own. Online learning is there to support schools, not to be the norm.

My daughter just graduated from U of A's BEd program. She landed a summer job at Alberta Distance Learning Centre (ADLC).

She was telling me about drop out rates and the students that don't meet course deadlines. It's really high, and I am pretty sure I am right to say the majority of high school students taking her courses did not complete them.

This type of delivery is fantastic, but certainly not for everyone.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by topgun2269

The only profession that I have yet see automate even a little.

Yes there have been cuts but only to the secondary part of the system.

We need to look at how we can improve the total system, its actually old and needs a rebuild

Laptops from grade one on!!! do your test click send get your results.

this will help the marking system by 90% efficiencies.

do we still need text books???? put it all on line.

Your pay should be determined on how your kids do at the end of the year!!!

Bonus structure. If you dont like teaching we will know very soon.


Robots for welding robots for the food industry

How about cutting down on teachers with automation?? I would have rather watched a video in school than listen to a teacher. (just saying)

Im not trying to bash,we need to automate.


I have heard all the poor me situations!!! spend the night marking papers??? on line done 30 second feed back results.

Its a great job if its something you love to do!!! if you dont, please dont complain ,you went to University go back and change your career path.

Teachers should be a year to year contract... if your kids do well you do well. If the kids are not getting the proper results you should be pulled on the carpet and be ready to answer. You are paid very very well, there has to be some accountability.

Your union is one of the strongest I have ever seen. Still has to be results driven...

Go into a classroom and check out what’s actually happening. Most of the ‘automation’ actually happens already.

For like multiple choice tests. Google forms and Moodle will mark stuff for you.

Show me how to auto mark an essay...... and you’d save both teachers and government Tonnes of time and dollars.

Methinks your applying a myopic outdated ‘economic’ dogma to a situation and program you know absolutely nothing about.


AutomAting classrooms is exactly like automating doctors visits-treatments.

[sns2]

My impression is that when people bash teachers they mostly fall into one of two categories:

A) Did not experience success in school

B) Not happy with where they ended up in life

That's just been my experience.

I've been doing this teaching stuff for a while (I'm 52). I have no problem with gov't auditing school boards to see how taxpayer money is spent. Damn straight there is waste. Some boards have way more than others.

It seems Calgary Board of Education has been the target of accusations of fiscal mismanagement. I have no idea if this is true, but that head office is in a pretty pricey area. I am all for saving money where one can.

[riden]

Originally Posted by sns2

My impression is that when people bash teachers they mostly fall into one of two categories:

A) Did not experience success in school

B) Not happy with where they ended up in life

That's just been my experience.

I've been doing this teaching stuff for a while (I'm 52). I have no problem with gov't auditing school boards to see how taxpayer money is spent. Damn straight there is waste. Some boards have way more than others.

It seems Calgary Board of Education has been the target of accusations of fiscal mismanagement. I have no idea if this is true, but that head office is in a pretty pricey area. I am all for saving money where one can.

I am going to add one

C) Received a teaching degree and was never hired, didn't make it through probation or it simply wasn't for them and they left the profession


I find this group contains some real teacher haters as well.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by topgun2269

The only profession that I have yet see automate even a little.

Yes there have been cuts but only to the secondary part of the system.

We need to look at how we can improve the total system, its actually old and needs a rebuild

Laptops from grade one on!!! do your test click send get your results.

this will help the marking system by 90% efficiencies.

do we still need text books???? put it all on line.

Your pay should be determined on how your kids do at the end of the year!!!

Bonus structure. If you dont like teaching we will know very soon.


Robots for welding robots for the food industry

How about cutting down on teachers with automation?? I would have rather watched a video in school than listen to a teacher. (just saying)

Im not trying to bash,we need to automate.


I have heard all the poor me situations!!! spend the night marking papers??? on line done 30 second feed back results.

Its a great job if its something you love to do!!! if you dont, please dont complain ,you went to University go back and change your career path.

Teachers should be a year to year contract... if your kids do well you do well. If the kids are not getting the proper results you should be pulled on the carpet and be ready to answer. You are paid very very well, there has to be some accountability.

Your union is one of the strongest I have ever seen. Still has to be results driven...

Time for you to go back to school!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by riden

I am going to add one

C) Received a teaching degree and was never hired, didn't make it through probation or it simply wasn't for them and they left the profession


I find this group contains some real teacher haters as well.

I forgot that one

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Show me how to auto mark an essay...... and you’d save both teachers and government Tonnes of time and dollars.

.

You take the stack of essays to the top of the stairs and throw them in the air.
Assign a mark depending on what step they land on.

Is this your first day?

[bessiedog]

Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Don’t give out trade secrets!......

I’ll tell ‘themightyUNION’ on you..... make ya disappear man....!

[ruffy71]

Our boys have always done well in school. But as they got on into high school and were hoping to get into UofA sciences, they needed to keep their marks as high as they could.

We did not turn to buying an extra computer, or new software. We hired a flesh and blood tutor to come to the house for an hour a week with pencil and paper.

One on one, human being to human being.

Outside of our school taxes, the best educational money we ever spent. Hands down.

[Grizzly Adams]

You can train a kid with machines, but you'll never teach him to think or have good societal values.

Grizz

[Ranger CS]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421

Open it Read it!