Employer making someone work for free?

WhiteTailAB · #1 07-11-2019, 02:53 PM

So I'm a 3rd party at a fab shop in AB, where the foreman makes guys work for free or else they are fired.

Example: Welders get repairs, he makes them fix it on their own time or they can hop in their truck and leave. Another example, making a guy work the whole day for free cutting apart spools or he has to hop in his truck and find a new job.

Is this even legal? I know some of the guys who have worked for free are asians who don't speak english well... so right there they're being taken advantage of.

Does anyone on AO have an answer? CLAC shop.

AndrewM · #2 07-11-2019, 02:57 PM

Definitely not legal and definitely shady. If I were them, I would be documenting all the free hours and I have a feeling they will get paid for it all via the Labour Board.

sweld · #3 07-11-2019, 03:00 PM

Any place I’ve ever worked you got paid to fix your repairs or screw ups. But I would consider fixing my own repairs or screw ups but not anyone else’s.

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WhiteTailAB · #4 07-11-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Definitely not legal and definitely shady. If I were them, I would be documenting all the free hours and I have a feeling they will get paid for it all via the Labour Board.

Yeah I thought it was pretty greasy too. I guess when jobs are little to none it's easy to be scared into thinking you're gonna lose your job. Since I am a 3rd party contractor I am not going intervene directly but I'll pass it along.

AndrewM · #5 07-11-2019, 03:04 PM

Could there be an agreement where they are making up for extra holidays or something like that? Or it is for sure they just aren't being paid?

WhiteTailAB · #6 07-11-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Could there be an agreement where they are making up for extra holidays or something like that? Or it is for sure they just aren't being paid?

Nope definitely not any extra days off or anything like that. I've heard of guys coming in early, staying late, all for free. There are some spools that need to be cut apart soon so I will hear more but so far from what I have heard is they have been made to work a day or 2 free to keep their jobs.

ghfalls · #7 07-11-2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

Yeah I thought it was pretty greasy too. I guess when jobs are little to none it's easy to be scared into thinking you're gonna lose your job. Since I am a 3rd party contractor I am not going intervene directly but I'll pass it along.

If you’re a contractor, and you’re making mistakes you should be fixing them on your own time. Not sure if the Asian guys are though.

Ken07AOVette · #8 07-11-2019, 03:17 PM

Forcing to work without reimbursement is contrary to labor standards and should be a slam dunk with the Labor board if the time can be proven.
Trouble is if he thinks he is above the law and thinks he can run slaves there is likely zero chance that he would tell the truth in court anyway.
Get proof.

Dewey Cox · #9 07-11-2019, 03:18 PM

If its that bad, they should quit.
Since they haven't, I guess it's not that bad.

WhiteTailAB · #10 07-11-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghfalls

If you’re a contractor, and you’re making mistakes you should be fixing them on your own time. Not sure if the Asian guys are though.

None of these guys are contractors. As for myself this isn't about me, the customer hired our company to be here so I don't work for the company the foreman does if that makes sense.

I'll have to ask around and see what other people know about making guys work for free. I'm fairly certain if OH&S showed up here this shop would close lol.

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

WhiteTailAB · #11 07-11-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

If its that bad, they should quit.
Since they haven't, I guess it's not that bad.

Hey whatever they wanna do they can do it. I made this post mostly to answer a question I had for my own knowledge, I knew someone on AO would have the answer quicker than myself googling and reading legislation.

But also like I said these guys who may not understand exactly what is being told to them don't know any better.

bobtodrick · #12 07-11-2019, 03:28 PM

I'd advise you find out bit more before reporting it.
I've worked at places where I put in 'unpaid hours'...but they also were very good at letting me have a long lunch or run personal errands on company time when we weren't busy.
Could be something like that.

AndrewM · #13 07-11-2019, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

If its that bad, they should quit.
Since they haven't, I guess it's not that bad.

Easy to say when you have a backup job or a wife with a good income. Hard to do when you have a family to feed at home.

WhiteTailAB · #14 07-11-2019, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I'd advise you find out bit more before reporting it.
I've worked at places where I put in 'unpaid hours'...but they also were very good at letting me have a long lunch or run personal errands on company time when we weren't busy.
Could be something like that.

I can almost guarantee that's not the case but I'll ask around. I won't be reporting it but I will tell whoever works for free to contact the labor board....

WhiteTailAB · #15 07-11-2019, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Easy to say when you have a backup job or a wife with a good income. Hard to do when you have a family to feed at home.

No kidding, I make the primary income in my home and that is why I am tip-toeing around this issue and it's not even my issue.

MyAlberta · #16 07-11-2019, 03:44 PM

Could be a salaried arrangement or a service that takes fees. Go lightly. If you are there on somebody else’s behalf, they may feel the repercussions.

Savage Bacon · #17 07-11-2019, 03:45 PM

Flat rate shop? You get paid a set price and are responsible for your own mistakes. Learn to not them as much

Husty · #18 07-11-2019, 03:46 PM

I get paid to be at work from 7am-4pm. If I'm not getting paid I'm not working. I dont live to work, I work to live. Overtime here has to be pre-approved so theirs been a few times where I work OT for emergency's without pre-approval.. Its always been paid out for me

if that changes me and the boss will have a talk.

Sounds pretty shady and illegal to me but I have no idea how your shop is running.

WhiteTailAB · #19 07-11-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Could be a salaried arrangement or a service that takes fees. Go lightly. If you are there on somebody else’s behalf, they may feel the repercussions.

It's a CLAC shop, these welders aren't on salary LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husty

I get paid to be at work from 7am-4pm. If I'm not getting paid I'm not working. I dont live to work, I work to live. Overtime here has to be pre-approved so theirs been a few times where I work OT for emergency's without pre-approval.. Its always been paid out for me

if that changes me and the boss will have a talk.

Sounds pretty shady and illegal to me but I have no idea how your shop is running.

CLAC shop, I am sure CLAC would hate to know how it's being ran.

WhiteTailAB · #20 07-11-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Flat rate shop? You get paid a set price and are responsible for your own mistakes. Learn to not them as much

CLAC shop, not flat rate, not salary, not piece work. Trades here are all hourly.

Savage Bacon · #21 07-11-2019, 04:47 PM

That sucks. He knows the employees need the work

JWCalgary · #22 07-11-2019, 05:10 PM

Need to go knocking on the unions door to resolve it. Fight the fight to correct it. That's all that can be done. Run that foreman outta there!

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260 Rem · #23 07-11-2019, 06:28 PM

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

hal53 · #24 07-11-2019, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

They're paid by the hour?

bloopbloob · #25 07-11-2019, 06:41 PM

I've worked jobs where CLAC membership was required. Not much good to say about them, and I'll leave it at that.

As far as free work, no they can't make you. That said, I've worked jobs with a two strike policy. Fail 2 x-rays and you are skidded. It's in the contract. No more job. So maybe it's (an illegal) way to let guys keep their jobs... Not defending anything, just saying some of the things I've seen. I'd rather work for free and fix something I screwed up, on my own time, rather than lose my job.

WhiteTailAB · #26 07-11-2019, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

Teachers get like 8 weeks PAID vacation in the summer. They're not hurting for money that's for sure

roper1 · #27 07-11-2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53

They're paid by the hour?

I think he means the paid PD days they don't attend, unless they're in Banff. Or the whole class spent watching videos while he sleeps at his desk. Or the massive amount of paid sick days, to be used up skiing as much as possible....

WhiteTailAB · #28 07-11-2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

I've worked jobs where CLAC membership was required. Not much good to say about them, and I'll leave it at that.

As far as free work, no they can't make you. That said, I've worked jobs with a two strike policy. Fail 2 x-rays and you are skidded. It's in the contract. No more job. So maybe it's (an illegal) way to let guys keep their jobs... Not defending anything, just saying some of the things I've seen. I'd rather work for free and fix something I screwed up, on my own time, rather than lose my job.

Yeah these guys might just want to cling to their jobs and suck it up. I don't know, which is why I made the thread cause I always figured no one could make you work for free (which I've had confirmed here thanks to AO)

TransCanada just got a ton of work so if any welders are reading go that way.

260 Rem · #29 07-11-2019, 07:30 PM

I feel the love for teachers.... can’t give the current specifics regarding collective agreements but they are probably not too different from the good old days....Where teachers were paid based on instructional hours plus additional “assigned time” which essentially fell far short of the number of hours devoted to instruction related activities. There was no pay for extra-curricular, “clubs”, open houses, parent-teacher interviews, graduation activities...etc, etc. Teachers were essentially paid by the day and have never been paid for any holidays at Xmas, Easter, summer. Not paid for coming back to work a week before school starts in Sept. Paid days were 200 with nothing beyond that. Miss a day for exceptions not covered by agreement and they are docked 1/200th of their annual salary.
Teachers cannot collect EI during summer months because they choose to take their 10 month seasonal salary over 12 months.
Don’t know of any current data but in my day, most teachers worked in excess of 50 hrs a week.

R3illy · #30 07-11-2019, 08:31 PM

I could send a note to a few guys at clac if you wanted someone to look into your work site.

I do lots of extra work on my own time for my company and it doesnt bother me one bit. Maybe their not being pressured and dont mind working a bit harder then other employees.