2011 AF&GA Conference

[BlackHeart]

If your looking for discussion feedback on the transfer of points....I'll bite.

Like a form of quotas and points the free market eventual gets into it and causes the distortion of bartering for profit, something that was given or earned for free (I know they paid for the apps, but thats not directly paying for the points).

You can see some of the great things that have come from commercial quotas for halibut as an example.

How long will it be before the companies that make a living off of hunting or guiding get into the act on the transfer of points.......and then who only will get to hunt those special places. You see because if my business needed to profit from hunting, I would have no choice but to be competitive with those that would eat my lunch in a heartbeat.......therefore as soon as this transfer was allowed, I would be paying for these points from retired hunters and transferring them to my paying hunters.......therefore I can now market the opportunity to hunt some very exclusive areas.....think about how much some people will pay for that opportunity.

And now no matter how long or how many point you build up for that hunt....it will never happen.....you can transfer it to you kid.....but they will never be able to either.........as the businesses who need to will ensure they get it first and get it every year.

I started too late submitting for certain draws......but I learnt and my son has started at 16 and perhaps he will get some of those hunts I dream of...but at least he has a chance that does not have to be bought.

Also maybe I can get there on my own points....but not if someone just happens to be lucky enough to have two or four alive hunting draw applying grandparents......why should they jump the que ahead of me if I have been applying for 20 years and the kid who has just applied for 1 year suddenly gets to hunt before me???. This option would general just degrade everyones opportunities and make it less about patiently applying yourself and more about the luck of having grandparents.

And I hate the stand in line for hire thinking or those that let their freind join them or in ahead of them ......and me.......I followed the rules and waited my turn.....why shouldn't everyone else.......otherwise why should I follow any rules on standing in line and waiting my turn.......heck I'll just go the the head of the line and punch the first in line guy in the temple.....you get the point.....if its about fairness and waiting your OWN turn or is it about dog eat dog getting to the front by other means.

The concept was a nice thought but not very well thought out....perhaps you need to go back to your club and rediscuss the distortion that can and will happpen.

[Scar270]

If your referring to me, hunter dave, I wasn't telling you to mind your own business, I was seriously wanting to know why you are interested in resolutions if you are not interested in being part of a club.

The point being the world is run by those who show up, if you really care about what the resolutions are, you should consider doing something so you can effect them.

However since your last post, I have a feeling you would instead prefer to use the resolutions as a way to confirm to yourself that the AFGA isn't doing anything you approve of, so therefore you can reaffirm your decision to not be a part of anything.

I don't think the resolutions are a state secret, but at the moment they are not the position of AFGA, many of these resolutions will be voted down, so spreading them all over, and having people feel that it is the position of AFGA isn't a great idea. Once they pass or fail at conference, the results are available to all the world.

[209x50]

There were two resolutions for allowing dogs to be used by hunters as well. One was for pack dogs only in the 400 series WMU and the other resolution was to use dogs for tracking wounded game.
What say you?

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by 209x50

There were two resolutions for allowing dogs to be used by hunters as well. One was for pack dogs only in the 400 series WMU and the other resolution was to use dogs for tracking wounded game.
What say you?

Not sure how you train the dog to track the wounded deer versus the unwounded deer......also is this going to increase the hail mary shots

I resolved this year to ensure it was one shot-one instant kill or not take the shot....and so did my son..... after seeing the carnage done by a fellow hunter and his shoulder and gut shots....and us having to track them down for him to finish. (He won't be hunting with us again) Both deer I took this year and the two my son took never took one step.

Why do I blither about my way.....well I think thats the direction more of us need to move towards........its not like its a great thing for animals to have to be tracked because of a poorly taken shot or poorly placed.......so I do think that dogs will just open up some shooters options thinking they should take shots they can't make good.

I don't hunt 400 so not sure.........but dogs for cougar and grizzly should be allowed everywhere in the province

[Scar270]

I'm not opposed to pack dogs, I don't think a dog with a big pack on is going to go running off after game, however they may be good warnings about bears when in the back country.

I am unsure on using dogs for tracking game, however I don't believe having dogs available will make people more likely to take risky shots. I think those that take risky shots do so, and those who don't like the thought of wounding game won't, I'm not sure there are many who will jump from one camp to the other because of dogs.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Scar270

I'm not opposed to pack dogs, I don't think a dog with a big pack on is going to go running off after game, however they may be good warnings about bears when in the back country.

I am unsure on using dogs for tracking game, however I don't believe having dogs available will make people more likely to take risky shots. I think those that take risky shots do so, and those who don't like the thought of wounding game won't, I'm not sure there are many who will jump from one camp to the other because of dogs.

Perhaps.

But if there are the type to take poor shots, do we want them to have dogs out there as well?.........and how with the COs determine the difference between using the dogs to hunt with versus "I was just tracking a deer I think I wounded"

[209x50]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Perhaps.

But if there are the type to take poor shots, do we want them to have dogs out there as well?.........and how with the COs determine the difference between using the dogs to hunt with versus "I was just tracking a deer I think I wounded"

The ability to use a dog in the bush isn't going to change a person's ethics. I truly don't think people who take risky shots ever believe they are going to miss.

[Scar270]

I don't know how enforcement would be handled, but much of what is law is hard to enforce, I guess it would be reasonable to be able to show hair and blood to a CO if he finds you with a dog.

Is using a dog to hunt really that big of a help when hunting big game? I don't honestly know, I know it's useful for cats and bears, but what about ungulates?

How do people use dogs, do they use the dogs to basically push bush for them?

Like I said, I don't know where I come down on tracking wounded game with dogs yet, but I'm finding the conversation interesting.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by 209x50

The ability to use a dog in the bush isn't going to change a person's ethics. I truly don't think people who take risky shots ever believe they are going to miss.

True on the changing of ethics..........ok so how about the new entrys into the sport?.......will the thought that they can just have the dog track it down start them down the road of risky or poorer shots and limit their opportunity to learn a better way as the dogs are the fall back position......like people who make poor choices and ending up on welfare, these types tend to not learn from their mistakes or care about avoiding them because there is a safety net.....but removing that net and attitudes change......but worst of all once some start using that safety net, they become habitual users.

I know it a long stretch from welfare to dogs for wounded game......but its the closest analogy I could find to layout what concepts I was thinking about.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

True on the changing of ethics..........ok so how about the new entrys into the sport?.......will the thought that they can just have the dog track it down start them down the road of risky or poorer shots and limit their opportunity to learn a better way as the dogs are the fall back position......like people who make poor choices and ending up on welfare, these types tend to not learn from their mistakes or care about avoiding them because there is a safety net.....but removing that net and attitudes change......but worst of all once some start using that safety net, they become habitual users.

I know it a long stretch from welfare to dogs for wounded game......but its the closest analogy I could find to layout what concepts I was thinking about.

I think you are kind of reaching on this. The same parallels could be drawn that is people are allowed to drive they will speed. Everything can be abused but why should we control the majority for wrong doings of the minority?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Scar270

I don't know how enforcement would be handled, but much of what is law is hard to enforce, I guess it would be reasonable to be able to show hair and blood to a CO if he finds you with a dog.

Is using a dog to hunt really that big of a help when hunting big game? I don't honestly know, I know it's useful for cats and bears, but what about ungulates?

How do people use dogs, do they use the dogs to basically push bush for them?

Like I said, I don't know where I come down on tracking wounded game with dogs yet, but I'm finding the conversation interesting.

The resolution only deals with using dogs for tracking wounded game nothing else. I'd guess proof of the wounding would be in order if asked. I have no clue how a dog would be used to hunt big game.

[Okotokian]

I suspect the dogs that would be used for either option would generally be pretty well trained. My brittany is a trained hunting dog (for birds and waterfowl) and I wouldn't just trust him to track a wounded deer. He's not trained for that. I don't know if he would actually follow a blood trail. Ditto for putting a pack on him. So I'm not sure a law change would produce that much impact out in the field.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

My last post wasn't directed to you Oko. Your answer was much better than telling me to mind my own business.

Who was it who told you to "mind your own business"?

Maybe someone should have posted that this thread was for AGFA members only and outsiders weren't welcomed to post on it.

Because that is not the case.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by duffy4

They are not a big secret but on a "need to know" basis, if you are a member you need to know and if you are not a member, why would you need to know?

I am not a member of AGFA so I don't have a need to know........'nuff said. Someone else posted the resolutions for everyone to read and I thanked them for it. YOU can carry on with your thread discussing your OP with only people that need to know. Enjoy.

[solocam3]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I am not a member of AGFA so I don't have a need to know........'nuff said. Someone else posted the resolutions for everyone to read and I thanked them for it. YOU can carry on with your thread discussing your OP with only people that need to know. Enjoy.

I would think that if you hunt or fish or enjoy the outdoors then you ar a "Need to Know" person. It is these resolutions that can change the hunting and fishing that you enjoy. They could make your enjoyment better such as the Sunday Hunting changes or the youth hunting changes or make your outdoor experience worse(Wait, I cant think of any)

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by solocam3

I would think that if you hunt or fish or enjoy the outdoors then you ar a "Need to Know" person. It is these resolutions that can change the hunting and fishing that you enjoy.

That's exactly my point! Instead I was told that if you are a member of AFGA you have a need to know but if you aren't then why would you want to know?! Whatever.............

[Scar270]

You still have not answered the question Hunter Dave, so I'm still convinced the only use you have for the resolutions is to reaffirm to yourself that you shouldn't be involved in actually doing some work to influence the future of our sport.

[HunterDave]

Hunterdave Question: What are the resolutions on the agenda for the conference...........or do you have to be a member of the club to know?

Duffy4 Answer: I am not sure if the resolutions are posted on the AF&GA web site or not. They are not a big secret but on a "need to know" basis, if you are a member you need to know and if you are not a member, why would you need to know?

Scar270 Answer: Hunter Dave, if you aren't interested in the Politics, why are you interested in the Resolutions?

Slocam3 Answers Both Reply Questions: I would think that if you hunt or fish or enjoy the outdoors then you ar a "Need to Know" person. It is these resolutions that can change the hunting and fishing that you enjoy.

Walking Buffalo Posts Resolutions on a new Thread to Which I reply: Thank you Walking Buffalo. That is very good information for us guys that are interested in what AFGA is all about. I hope that you don't get too much flack from the "mind your own business" club for posting it.

End of story. No further comment is required from me on this thread.

[duffy4]

The members of the AF&GA (affiliates) are the ones who actually VOTE on the resolutions. Therefore they "NEED TO KNOW".

Non-members do not vote (or speak to the resolutions at conference) so they really do not "NEED TO KNOW".

Now Dave if you "Would like to know" that is different than "Need to know".

And now you do know what the resolutions are and there is really nothing you can do about them one way or another.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by duffy4

And now you do know what the resolutions are and there is really nothing you can do about them one way or another.

Great job Duffy! You are a true ambassador for AFGA! I wonder how many AFGA members winced when they read your pompous, arrogant statement? "We're the almighty AFGA and we'll do whatever we want and there's nothing anyone can do about it." Un-frickin' believable!

Why not run around challenging people until someone rains hell down from great heights and different directions all over your resolutions merely to prove a point to you?!!!

I have found that there are some very good representatives of AFGA on the other resolution thread that are doing some good damage control. Hopefully, they will project themselves as people that other people would want to be associated with and they can peak some interest with people to become new members of the association.

I'm done with you. As far as I'm concerned you can do as much damage to the AFGA's image as you'd like. Carry on.

HunterDave..............OUT!

[duffy4]

Dave, please don't respond to this post. Better yet don't even read it as it may raise your blood pressure and I would not want to be blamed for that.


For others who may be following this thread, Do you see where someone may be "reading things between the lines" (that are not there) or misinterpreting what I wrote?

I believe I wrote, " And now you do know what the resolutions are and there is really nothing you can do about them one way or another."

Which simply means that members of a Fish and Game club can do something about the resolutions because they belong and have a vote.
And non-members seeing as they do not have a vote can really do nothing one way or another about the resolutions.

I don't think there was anything "pompous or arrogant" in that statement. Simply the bare facts.


Dave said "We're the almighty AFGA and we'll do whatever we want and there's nothing anyone can do about it."

I certainly never said that (I have absolutely no authority to speak on behalf of the AF&GA or even my home club in Rocky)and I have never head anyone in the AF&GA say anything like that.

If I have said anything to make anyone uncomfortable with the AF&GA I apologize to you and the AF&GA.

It has its faults but for the most part I believe it is the best way for Alberta sportsmen to have their views brought before the Government and it does some great work directly for our wildlife resources. And the greater its membership, the more clout it has. So even if you are too busy to get involved your membership is a number that counts.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by duffy4

And non-members seeing as they do not have a vote can really do nothing one way or another about the resolutions.

Do you want to bet? Tell that to the ABA about their locked firearms resolution. If anyone there had dilutions of grandeur I'll bet that they were shattered pretty quickly.