Number ofTags Issued to Outfitters Still Exceed Tags Issued to Residents

[Ranger CS]

How frustrating and disturbing it is to see the number of big game tags issued to outfitters in some WMUs still exceeds the number given out to the residents of Alberta. This issue was a topic on the forum last year; I, and a number of other AO, members wrote letters in protest and requested this unfair practice be changed. Obviously our politicians and senior bureaucrats have done nothing to address this issue of unfairness. After doing some fact checking, one can clearly see that in some WMUs, outfitters are still receiving a higher number of tags per species than resident hunters in 2016. This is wrong and continues to be wrong. This is not likely to change as long as the (APOS), Alberta Professional Outfitters Society is allowed to continue making the decisions that have lead to this situation.

[herc883]

As much as I also don't like it... the licence fees that the guided hunters pay does go towards conservation and it is a lot more than you or I pay... I do think it is a joke that an American can pay to come up here and shoot a moose every year in the same wmu that it takes me 7 years to get a tag. Same for mule deer... takes me 3 years and they can come shoot one every year.

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[Bganz]

Definitely seems a bit backwards to me, too. Raise the price of the non-resident tags, lower the number handed out, and you'll still be making the same amount of money towards conservation.

The price people will pay to come hunting is mind blowing to me. With lower amount of tags given, I doubt one would complain too much if the cost was raised.

This can also play a part in the solution to the long waits for our presently doomed priority system. More residential tags = less waits for residents.

Nonetheless it's a resource that will be exploited by the ones in power, leaving us to write letters venting our frustrations. Might as well address them to Santa

[waterninja]

Said it before, Say it again. I weep for the future of our children and grandchildren when it comes to hunting/fishing/trapping or any outdoor sports. Millionaires and govt. officials will be the only ones allowed.

[bowhunter9841]

I think Alberta should do things similar to some states in the USA. Where you have to draw a tag still, even if you are using an outfitter! And then also lower the tags available to non residents. Just my two cents.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bowhunter9841

I think Alberta should do things similar to some states in the USA. Where you have to draw a tag still, even if you are using an outfitter! And then also lower the tags available to non residents. Just my two cents.

Yup.

[greenwood1]

Originally Posted by bowhunter9841

I think Alberta should do things similar to some states in the USA. Where you have to draw a tag still, even if you are using an outfitter! And then also lower the tags available to non residents. Just my two cents.

Absolutely! You nailed it 100%

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by greenwood1

Absolutely! You nailed it 100%

Yes sir!

The outfitter in our area thinks he owns the place. He asks for permission, you tell him no, and he still goes on and hunts. No respect.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ranch11

Yes sir!

The outfitter in our area thinks he owns the place. He asks for permission, you tell him no, and he still goes on and hunts. No respect.

So take pictures for proof and then lay charges. If his clients get hauled into court for trespassing, it will discourage them from returning. If their animals get confiscated, as they can be if they were trespassing, it will cost him business.

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by herc883

As much as I also don't like it... the licence fees that the guided hunters pay does go towards conservation and it is a lot more than you or I pay... I do think it is a joke that an American can pay to come up here and shoot a moose every year in the same wmu that it takes me 7 years to get a tag. Same for mule deer... takes me 3 years and they can come shoot one every year.

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You are talking about a handful of dollars difference. Try to remember that we are talking about government spending. That money can easily be eaten up by administration and beaurocracy. We think in hundreds and thousands and they think in millions and billions. The extra few $ is like spitting on a fire. We are really talking about the difference between industry and recreation.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

You are talking about a handful of dollars difference. Try to remember that we are talking about government spending. That money can easily be eaten up by administration and beaurocracy. We think in hundreds and thousands and they think in millions and billions. The extra few $ is like spitting on a fire. We are really talking about the difference between industry and recreation.

Don't look at it from the dollar perspective, look at it from why residents of alberta are in a draw system waiting and an outfitter gets clients with no wait at all? Not fair at all now let's do look at the dollar side of things, you work, live and pay taxes all year long in Alberta that adds up in expenses to reside in Alberta a lot more than a client would pay so in all fairness everything needs to be equal at the minimum with availability to hunt as a resident in Alberta.
Draw for all or buy the tag this is based on what each zone can sustain as in hunting pressure...my personal perspective is residence of Alberta take priority but then again I am not hashing out a living as an outfitter.
Greed drives people wonkers.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Don't look at it from the dollar perspective, look at it from why residents of alberta are in a draw system waiting and an outfitter gets clients with no wait at all? Not fair at all now let's do look at the dollar side of things, you work, live and pay taxes all year long in Alberta that adds up in expenses to reside in Alberta a lot more than a client would pay so in all fairness everything needs to be equal at the minimum with availability to hunt as a resident in Alberta.
Draw for all or buy the tag this is based on what each zone can sustain as in hunting pressure...my personal perspective is residence of Alberta take priority but then again I am not hashing out a living as an outfitter.
Greed drives people wonkers.

I look at it as the taxpayers that own the private land that supports the wildlife, and whose taxes pay to manage the game populations, are being forced to wait years to draw tags, while a non resident can simply purchase a tag every year. It's our resource, yet it is being sold for a profit to people who do not pay their taxes here, and who in comparison contribute very little to the Alberta economy , compared to the Alberta taxpayers.

[Ken H]

I'm not sure it's as big of a deal as we Alberta residents make this out to be. There are around a dozen zones that the outfitter are allotted more tags. These zones are generally average at best. I would be more interested in the non resident Canadians that can draw for the same tags as residents. Many more tags given to this crowd than we think.

[Snap Shot]

Originally Posted by Ken H

I'm not sure it's as big of a deal as we Alberta residents make this out to be. There are around a dozen zones that the outfitter are allotted more tags. These zones are generally average at best. I would be more interested in the non resident Canadians that can draw for the same tags as residents. Many more tags given to this crowd than we think.

Both need to go!!

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bowhunter9841

I think Alberta should do things similar to some states in the USA. Where you have to draw a tag still, even if you are using an outfitter! And then also lower the tags available to non residents. Just my two cents.

Seems like a very common sense solution that know one could really find fault with.

[fatboyz]

Originally Posted by herc883

As much as I also don't like it... the licence fees that the guided hunters pay does go towards conservation and it is a lot more than you or I pay... I do think it is a joke that an American can pay to come up here and shoot a moose every year in the same wmu that it takes me 7 years to get a tag. Same for mule deer... takes me 3 years and they can come shoot one every year.

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I disagree. The Non-resident Alien moose tag is only $300.00. in our mountain WMU 434 Outfitters have 5 tags, residents get 2! So total "conservation" dollars is $1500.00 from the Non Resident tags. That's peanuts and a resident needs to wait 9+ yrs. to get drawn.

[H380]

Originally Posted by Ranch11

Yes sir!

The outfitter in our area thinks he owns the place. He asks for permission, you tell him no, and he still goes on and hunts. No respect.

Have him charged ..

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Ken H

I'm not sure it's as big of a deal as we Alberta residents make this out to be. There are around a dozen zones that the outfitter are allotted more tags. These zones are generally average at best. I would be more interested in the non resident Canadians that can draw for the same tags as residents. Many more tags given to this crowd than we think.

Define "average at best". You sir are out of touch.

[Deer Hunter]

Get used to it
The govt has bigger issues
And residents have no representation. Nothing with teeth anyway
It's an absolute disgrace. Right up there with how the largest single wildlife asset in alberta was handled. Suffield.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So take pictures for proof and then lay charges. If his clients get hauled into court for trespassing, it will discourage them from returning. If their animals get confiscated, as they can be if they were trespassing, it will cost him business.

Working on it. Sometimes we're just too busy to catch him. He was out this morning and we seen him, but he took off. Last night, we had some friends of ours hunting on our property and he stopped by to harass them about hunting on our land. And they had permission! Unreal. He gets his buddies to ask for permission, when they do, the whole outfit hunts on the place. He's pretty sneaky.

[dshaw]

I agree it needs to be changed. Its the same down here in 400 for mule deer. Equal amounts of tags or more to outfitters than residents (and no landowner tags in that zone). I think some species need to be taken off the outfitter and non-resident canadian tags that we have. Mule Deer and moose are the first that come to mind. I Also think that with a reduction of tags non residents need to draw the tag and then hire the outfitter like was mentioned above as they do in the states.

[calgarychef]

The easiest way would be to set up a fund to buy the outfitters tags as they become available for sale. Put them back into the general pool. It would take organisation and fundraising and we'd have to be assured that the govt wouldn't simply offer more outfitter tags again.

Wouldn't it be nice to eventually have bought all the tags and not have to worry about outfitter hassles anymore?

[last minute]

Every year this comes up bitch, moan, complain, and has it changed i don't see the big deal .

[walking buffalo]

Who knew that the government and the newly formed Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC) are currently working on a new Outfitter Policy?

Anybody that belongs to a game club such as AFGA, ABA, WSF, SCI, were you asked by your executive for your thoughts on what you want in the new Outfitter Policy?

I suspect that the answer to both questions is nearly 100% No....

Did you know that AGPAC has decided to NOT consult with the stakeholder membership, and that committee members are under a gag order to not speak of what they are doing? That they decided to NOT even allow a record of minutes for the meetings? That's right, your stakeholder representatives voted to eliminate any record of their position or input at these meetings....

The current level of secrecy and complete exclusion of public and stakeholder consultation in the development of Alberta game/hunter management is unprecedented.

This whole thing stinks. It is time for a thorough cleaning.

[dshaw]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;3346807]Who knew that the government and the newly formed Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC) are currently working on a new Outfitter Policy?

Anybody that belongs to a game club such as AFGA, ABA, WSF, SCI, were you asked by your executive for your thoughts on what you want in the new Outfitter Policy?

I suspect that the answer to both questions is nearly 100% No....

Did you know that AGPAC has decided to NOT consult with the stakeholder membership, and that committee members are under a gag order to not speak of what they are doing? That they decided to NOT even allow a record of minutes for the meetings? That's right, your stakeholder representatives voted to eliminate any record of their position or input at these meetings....

The current level of secrecy and complete exclusion of public and stakeholder consultation in the development of Alberta game/hunter management is unprecedented.

This whole thing stinks. It is time for a thorough cleaning.[/QUOTE

wow, never knew a thing about it.We probably won't hear anything until its all said and done. Its a shame they don't feel the ned to include their stakeholders throughout the province.

[Ranger CS]

For clarification, in the province of Alberta outfitters are granted approximately 5% of licenses that are on draw allocation. The huge unfairness lies in the way the tags to outfitters are distributed. Outfitters are issued a given number of tags for what is called a Species Management Area. A Species Management Area is a large geographic area that has within it several Wildlife Management Units. The unfairness lies in the fact that outfitters are entitled and allowed by our Government to take high numbers of tags from within some WMUs, and take low numbers of tags from other WMUs. As a result, in the more productive WMUs, outfitters are taking a high percentage of the total tags issued. This leaves fewer tags for residents. A good example can be found in WMU 302. Outfitters were issued 18 tags for antlered mule deer this year and residents were issued 17 tags. Who can argue this situation is fair, just or reasonable. I maintain that if the 5% guideline for outfitter tags is to be applied, it should be applied to all WMUs across the province. It goes without saying, as a result of this flawed allocation system, residents hunters must wait many years under the priority system to ever receive a tag in some of these WMUs, while the outfitters are able to thrive and profit year after year.

[Ranger CS]

Thanks for the information Walking Buffalo. This is truly a sad situation. I assume that the Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee is well represented by members of APOS who are self serving and determined ensure that whatever new policy recommendations come from the Advisory Committee will strongly favor outfitters. Do you know who is actually sitting on this committee

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Ranch11

Working on it. Sometimes we're just too busy to catch him. He was out this morning and we seen him, but he took off. Last night, we had some friends of ours hunting on our property and he stopped by to harass them about hunting on our land. And they had permission! Unreal. He gets his buddies to ask for permission, when they do, the whole outfit hunts on the place. He's pretty sneaky.

Post the name of the Outfitter on here as there are several CO's that frequent this site. A phone call warning him to stay off your land is all it might take. And once the warning is given, it strengthens the trespassing charge if that route needs to be taken.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Who knew that the government and the newly formed Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC) are currently working on a new Outfitter Policy?

Anybody that belongs to a game club such as AFGA, ABA, WSF, SCI, were you asked by your executive for your thoughts on what you want in the new Outfitter Policy?

I suspect that the answer to both questions is nearly 100% No....

Did you know that AGPAC has decided to NOT consult with the stakeholder membership, and that committee members are under a gag order to not speak of what they are doing? That they decided to NOT even allow a record of minutes for the meetings? That's right, your stakeholder representatives voted to eliminate any record of their position or input at these meetings....

The current level of secrecy and complete exclusion of public and stakeholder consultation in the development of Alberta game/hunter management is unprecedented.

This whole thing stinks. It is time for a thorough cleaning.

WB, I sent this email to the Ministers Office....


I received this*information pertaining to government policy being made.... very concerning.

Quote:

Who knew that the government and the newly formed Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC) are currently working on a new Outfitter Policy?

Anybody that belongs to a game club such as AFGA, ABA, WSF, SCI, were you asked by your executive for your thoughts on what you want in the new Outfitter Policy?

I suspect that the answer to both questions is nearly 100% No....

Did you know that AGPAC has decided to NOT consult with the stakeholder membership, and that committee members are under a gag order to not speak of what they are doing? That they decided to NOT even allow a record of minutes for the meetings? That's right, your stakeholder representatives voted to eliminate any record of their position or input at these meetings....

The current level of secrecy and complete exclusion of public and stakeholder consultation in the development of Alberta game/hunter management is unprecedented.

This whole thing stinks. It is time for a thorough cleaning.


Thank you for your immediate attention into this matter

Sincerely,

An Alberta Tax Payer and Resident Hunter

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Don't look at it from the dollar perspective, look at it from why residents of alberta are in a draw system waiting and an outfitter gets clients with no wait at all? Not fair at all now let's do look at the dollar side of things, you work, live and pay taxes all year long in Alberta that adds up in expenses to reside in Alberta a lot more than a client would pay so in all fairness everything needs to be equal at the minimum with availability to hunt as a resident in Alberta.
Draw for all or buy the tag this is based on what each zone can sustain as in hunting pressure...my personal perspective is residence of Alberta take priority but then again I am not hashing out a living as an outfitter.
Greed drives people wonkers.

I totally agree but I'm not the least bit concerned about Outfitters trying to scratch out a meagre living off of our Wildlife resources. How many active Outfitters exist in Alberta that actually depend on Oufitting as the primary source of their annual income ?
For many ( most) it is a glorified hobby .. and a fairly lucrative one at that. That hobby is being directly subsidized by Albertas recreational hunters. They are organized with Gov't support. We are not.