Split Draw System for 2015??

[Homesteader]

Was at the Sportsmen show today, and in talking to a reputable source was told some alarming news. The government is planning a split draw this year as to rifle or archery............So apparently when we apply this year we must specify either rifle or archery, when the draw goes in. You can't apply for both.

In the past we just applied for the draw, and if successful, hunted how ever we wanted as long as we had a bow tag. I think this sucks, what was wrong with having the choice. If this in fact true, I'm guessing most hunters will default to rifle as it gives us a higher chance of success. I think this is a step backward for the sport.

Can anyone else confirm this, and if so what's the reasoning?

[300magman]

I have heard this as well (there's been lots of talk on the forum about it).

I like the idea....it will take some pressure off the rifle draw as dedicated bow hunters will likely apply for the archery season, so numbers of applicants for the rifle will be reduced....also, I'm sure the likelihood of getting drawn on the archery tag will be better, so there will be more frequent opportunity to hunt the more coveted draws for bow hunters.

Me personally, if this plan holds true, I plan on putting all my draws in for archery. Only question I have is where existing priority will be allocated (will it transfer to archery and stay there in subsequent years, or will it remain as rifle)?

[dmcbride]

Terrible idea. Making people have to choose and have a shorter hunting season. What a great way to divide hunters even more.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by 300magman

I have heard this as well (there's been lots of talk on the forum about it).

I like the idea....it will take some pressure off the rifle draw as dedicated bow hunters will likely apply for the archery season, so numbers of applicants for the rifle will be reduced....also, I'm sure the likelihood of getting drawn on the archery tag will be better, so there will be more frequent opportunity to hunt the more coveted draws for bow hunters.

Me personally, if this plan holds true, I plan on putting all my draws in for archery. Only question I have is where existing priority will be allocated (will it transfer to archery and stay there in subsequent years, or will it remain as rifle)?

From what I have heard the archery draw will start from scratch.

[edmhunter]

Wondering if this would apply to all zones? Sure hope not!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Homesteader

Was at the Sportsmen show today, and in talking to a reputable source was told some alarming news. The government is planning a split draw this year as to rifle or archery............So apparently when we apply this year we must specify either rifle or archery, when the draw goes in. You can't apply for both.

In the past we just applied for the draw, and if successful, hunted how ever we wanted as long as we had a bow tag. I think this sucks, what was wrong with having the choice. If this in fact true, I'm guessing most hunters will default to rifle as it gives us a higher chance of success. I think this is a step backward for the sport.

Can anyone else confirm this, and if so what's the reasoning?

Ah yes....the changes so many of us were talking about. Read your regs extra carefully this year boys and encourage all your hunting partners and buddies to do the same!

LC

[jayboots]

I just sure as H#ll hope that there are still non draw archery seasons. they are already making it a pain in the @$$ in some of these zones in Central Alberta to be even able to hunt Mules without a draw in bow season... If we are able to put in for bow and rifle and each have their own priority then I'm all for it, maybe get more chances of getting draws every year.... as for the "more success with rifle season" its called hunting, not killing. Bow hunting is just more technical but I know of guys who are almost tagged out currently before general season even begins

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jayboots

I just sure as H#ll hope that there are still non draw archery seasons. they are already making it a pain in the @$$ in some of these zones in Central Alberta to be even able to hunt Mules without a draw in bow season... If we are able to put in for bow and rifle and each have their own priority then I'm all for it, maybe get more chances of getting draws every year.... as for the "more success with rifle season" its called hunting, not killing. Bow hunting is just more technical but I know of guys who are almost tagged out currently before general season even begins

Nope won't be eligible to put in for for both rifle and archery, that defeats the purpose. Things aren't designed in order for you to have a draw every year, they never have been that's why its a draw. You will have to pick your weapon of choice for the draw you choose.

LC

[Rio56]

what's the purpose to this . Are game numbers down that much ?

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by Rio56

what's the purpose to this . Are game numbers down that much ?

With the winter we just had you would think that game numbers are up more then anything...

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by Rio56

what's the purpose to this . Are game numbers down that much ?

They are in the 200 cull zones!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jayboots

With the winter we just had you would think that game numbers are up more then anything...

Animals are not like crops! The young from last seasons rut haven't even dropped yet....it takes more than one decent winter to recover compounding year losses....so we have a good number of fawns and calves survive this winter and spring, it takes more than a year to reach maturity. Try 5-7 years....that's roughly how long it would take to recover the losses....if it ever recovers.

With the people population explosion in Alberta and the harsh winters not to mention habitat losses that never recover, every user group is going to take a hit on opportunity....or that's what should happen. Come on guys are we really that short sighted? Are we really the "me me me" generation? Lots of people have short memories....

LC

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Animals are not like crops! The young from last seasons rut haven't even dropped yet....it takes more than one decent winter to recover compounding year losses....so we have a good number of fawns and calves survive this winter and spring, it takes more than a year to reach maturity. Try 5-7 years....

With the population explosion in Alberta and the harsh winters, every user group is going to take a hit on opportunity....or that's what should happen. Come on guys are we really that short sighted? Are we really the "me me me" generation? Lots of people have short memories....

LC

I was the "me me me" generation way before you were born L-C.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

I was the "me me me" generation way before you were born L-C.

Then folks haven't learned anything from their past. I hope someday my kid can tell his kids about his first moose as he is gutting their first moose....think about what we leave behind for our kids.

LC

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Rio56

what's the purpose to this . Are game numbers down that much ?

The purpose of this draw is to provide more opportunity by being able to offer more tags. There will still be the same quota off animals as before but they can issue more tags because there will be less success on harvesting a animal.

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Animals are not like crops! The young from last seasons rut haven't even dropped yet....it takes more than one decent winter to recover compounding year losses....so we have a good number of fawns and calves survive this winter and spring, it takes more than a year to reach maturity. Try 5-7 years....that's roughly how long it would take to recover the losses....if it ever recovers.

With the population explosion in Alberta and the harsh winters, every user group is going to take a hit on opportunity....or that's what should happen. Come on guys are we really that short sighted? Are we really the "me me me" generation? Lots of people have short memories....

LC

Apparently I've hit a soft spot for you? When we are doing double cow culls, and wildlife are all over the highways is the game population really hurting.
Im also aware that it takes more then one good winter to recover losses, and im also not talking about the young that were just born last year. I was referring to the older animals that would have survived the winter.

Im not saying there should be a draw system, the draw system is a good theory and it does try and keep numbers on the safe side of things.... With that being said, since the change in Metis rights in the 2000s, the draw system doesn't really work since the SRD have no idea how many animals are getting killed every year... in places like Slave Lake, the moose population is way down, and sure even though we had a milder winter compared to some, lots of those calves are going to be shot at least in that area.. Im not against the Metis having rights, but maybe they should have a reporting system so that SRD can at least maybe keep a somewhat count up.

I agree that we really need to change our mind set on the Me me me generation. I only hunt until I know ill be good for the year. usually a couple deer and then a large animal like an elk or moose if I'm lucky enough to get a draw that year...

And last, the fact that we have under 100 Fish and Wildlife in our province now is also effecting our numbers as there are an increase in pouching and not nearly the amount of area that is being covered/patrolled

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Then folks haven't learned anything from their past. I hope someday my kid can tell his kids about his first moose as he is gutting their first moose....think about what we leave behind for our kids.

LC

I agree with your sentiments L-C, however I do not believe that we (sportsmen and women) are in this current situation from our own doing.

We are in this mess because of the GREED of our governments, coupled with very poor management practices, like I personally witnessed in several zones I hunt in here, as well as other provinces I have hunted and lived in.

I can sight so many examples of how governments have effectively decimated wildlife populations going back to the Buffalo.

Hence it is not sportsmen that effect wildlife, it is our governments that destroy habitat and animal populations!

[jawa]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Then folks haven't learned anything from their past. I hope someday my kid can tell his kids about his first moose as he is gutting their first moose....think about what we leave behind for our kids.

LC

agree only difference is i want to be the one gutting my grandsons first moose. personally i dont think split draw will be that bad fewer people in the bush will give everyone a better hunt less confrontation . Also some of the big bush zones will be at least three years for deer numbers to noticeably recover farm zones havnt been affected nearly as bad

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jayboots

Apparently I've hit a soft spot for you? When we are doing double cow culls, and wildlife are all over the highways is the game population really hurting.
Im also aware that it takes more then one good winter to recover losses, and im also not talking about the young that were just born last year. I was referring to the older animals that would have survived the winter.

Im not saying there should be a draw system, the draw system is a good theory and it does try and keep numbers on the safe side of things.... With that being said, since the change in Metis rights in the 2000s, the draw system doesn't really work since the SRD have no idea how many animals are getting killed every year... in places like Slave Lake, the moose population is way down, and sure even though we had a milder winter compared to some, lots of those calves are going to be shot at least in that area.. Im not against the Metis having rights, but maybe they should have a reporting system so that SRD can at least maybe keep a somewhat count up.

I agree that we really need to change our mind set on the Me me me generation. I only hunt until I know ill be good for the year. usually a couple deer and then a large animal like an elk or moose if I'm lucky enough to get a draw that year...

Not a soft spot....just pointing out recovery takes more than 9 months, Metis harvest has little to do with game numbers in Alberta....so far.

LC

[calgarychef]

The reason for this is that Brent Watson, president of the ABA has decided that there are "too many bowhunters in alberta." His words not mine.

He wants to eliminate the people who (like me) hunt early season with the bow and if we don't get our animal we resort to our rifles with our draw tag.

So for the dedicated "bow only" hunters it means more tags, for the rest of it it means .....

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

The reason for this is that Brent Watson, president of the ABA has decided that there are "too many bowhunters in alberta." His words not mine.

He wants to eliminate the people who (like me) hunt early season with the bow and if we don't get our animal we resort to our rifles with our draw tag.

So for the dedicated "bow only" hunters it means more tags, for the rest of it it means .....

your SOL. hahaha Im in the same boat as you. bow hunt to be out in the bush and if I see something great! rifle hunt is crunch time and take meat home

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

The purpose of this draw is to provide more opportunity by being able to offer more tags. There will still be the same quota off animals as before but they can issue more tags because there will be less success on harvesting a animal.

In other words this is all about the management of people(of which we have way too many) and not at all about the management of wildlife for the benefit of the wildlife and this and future generations of people.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

I agree with your sentiments L-C, however I do not believe that we (sportsmen and women) are in this current situation from our own doing.

We are in this mess because of the GREED of our governments, coupled with very poor management practices, like I personally witnessed in several zones I hunt in here, as well as other provinces I have hunted and lived in.

I can sight so many examples of how governments have effective and decimated wildlife populations going back to the Buffalo.

Hence it is not sportsmen that effect wildlife, it is our governments that destroy habitat and animal populations!

Governments don't control the weather BUT they do control the tag allocations, the problem is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

How many people whine when a zone that was their go to place goes on draw? All they want is opportunity. So the Government issues duplicate tags, now the Hunter complain because too many deer/elk are shot....so now what?

Many people are so short sighted and so dare I say selfish that as long as they have tags in their pockets they could care less till the next year when they have tags in their pocket again.

There is a bigger picture that few seem to realize till they are faced head on with the consequences. Many folks have no restraint....even if the numbers are down and they know it, as long as they have a tag it's getting filled come hell or high water. I buy a lot of tags because I hunt a lot and I need a tag to have that opportunity, no way in hell have I ever filled every tag I held in a single season. I have let my antlered mule draw go unfilled 3 times over 15-20 years, not because I could not have filled it, but because I didn't find the mature animal I was looking for.

I see it with fishing to, how many times have I heard "I paid 20bucks for my fishing license so I'll be damned if I go home empty handed...."

Changes to the system should not be a shock to anyone....

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

The reason for this is that Brent Watson, president of the ABA has decided that there are "too many bowhunters in alberta." His words not mine.

He wants to eliminate the people who (like me) hunt early season with the bow and if we don't get our animal we resort to our rifles with our draw tag.

So for the dedicated "bow only" hunters it means more tags, for the rest of it it means .....

That is not necessarily true....splitting the draw removes archery tackle guys from the rifle pool....thus increasing opportunity by doing a split. We don't know how this will pan out yet because we don't know the actual allocations being given to each....those allocations change every year.

Every person in Alberta has the same opportunities as the next, you just have to either take up rifle hunting or take up archery hunting and decide what season/weapon you want to attempt to be successfully drawn in.

LC

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

The reason for this is that Brent Watson, president of the ABA has decided that there are "too many bowhunters in alberta."

Thanks for bring up the ABA, I was trying to find info on this split draw system and came across the following documents on the ABA website. you all might be interested in reading them...
http://www.bowhunters.ca/uploads/arc...eason_draw.pdf
http://www.bowhunters.ca/uploads/201..._seas_draw.pdf

After reading these through it kinda looks like this is still a rumour as this was proposed for the 2014 season,

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jayboots

your SOL. hahaha Im in the same boat as you. bow hunt to be out in the bush and if I see something great! rifle hunt is crunch time and take meat home

This sums it up perfectly, sometimes you just go home empty handed .... people's thought process will have to change if this split draw is created. If it's about the meat, then weigh your options and decide what season gives you the best chance at success.

LC

[edmhunter]

I would agree that the draw system in not only a very good system, but essential as well. I grew up in Quebec, no draw for moose, turned into no moose left. Now there is a draw.

Again it is not sportsmen like you or I that have turned once abundant ungulate populations into sparse populations it is our government that pulls the strings. The cull that happened the last few years is a prime example of their sheer stupidity.

I will always be in favor of the draw, just don't like what I am seeing these days, and I am fully aware of the toll that these harsh winters have done to deer populations and well as what wolves are doing to all species.

I usually have 6 tags in my wallet every year, typically only fill two.

[Lefty-Canuck]

This split season affects the "hybrid Hunter" the most.....because they are the ones who need to make the tough decision.

The archery only guys already know what draw they will put in for....

The rifle only guys already know what draw they will put in for....

Guys like me who use both are going to make a difficult decision.

LC

[Redfrog]

Are there more hunters every year or less?

More gun owners or less?

Move animal/ vehicle crashes every year?

F/W seems to be managing the draw to increase the revenue from the draw and not as a management tool.

[fish_e_o]

will i be forced to waste my high priority draws on archery seasons or will it be separate?

because i will use a rifle to fill a draw tag i waited years for. which is a shame