Split Draw System for 2015??

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

It personally doesn't affect myself,In fact it even helps me where I apply for Mule Deer buck,however if I was a Alberta resident hunter who utilized rifle and bow,I'd be pretty pizzed right now at the ESRD.

I'm Sick of The Alberta Resident getting Chit on.

I am!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Rifle guys all cried they wanted bowhunters to go on draw too.

Now that the bowhunters take more than the 15% of the harvest, im sure they will adjust the tags accordingly. ...

What started as rifle guys tring to stick to bow guys, is going to bite them in the but...big time...i tried to say be careful what you ask for...but nobody listened... cant say im upset now...the dangers of sending proposals and idea's, without knowing the problem or trying to self fulfill personal agendas...its similar to whats going on with the sheep now

Originally Posted by 3blade

Winner^^^

It's funny how the anti bowhunter crowd on here conveniently forgets how much whining they did back when mulies were General archery, draw rifle. What goes around, comes around.

Anyone ever get an answer as to where the 15% rule came from?

Do you mean in a Charlie Sheen kind of "Winner"?


Potty's description is not quite plumb, unless he meant to infer that the ABA is part of the anti-bowhunter crowd.

The ABA started the call for an exclusive draw. Others at the table didn't do their math and fell right into the trap.


Yup. I got a reply as to where the 15% rule came from.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Do you mean in a Charlie Sheen kind of "Winner"?


Potty's description is not quite plumb, unless he meant to infer that the ABA is part of the anti-bowhunter crowd.

The ABA started the call for an exclusive draw. Others at the table didn't do their math and fell right into the trap.


Yup. I got a reply as to where the 15% rule came from.

Well...there was Denise Richards....



I figured it came from the south end of a north facing bull.

do we really have to do this again?

ESRD has been lying to us for >15 years. They make up numbers to suit their political objectives. Then we all sit around and snarl over the scraps. And the scraps are getting smaller every year (except, of course for APOS).

[whitetail Junkie]

Are they making every Wmu on draw for buck muledeer for both Rifle and Archery?

[RDW]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Are they making every Wmu on draw for buck muledeer for both Rifle and Archery?

does any one know?

[waterninja]

I think I'll become a resident of B.C. or Sask. That way I can hunt whatever I want to here in AB.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

Do you know that for sure?

I have heard that whitetail and elk will remain unchanged with general tags still being given which are valid in either archery or general season.

I heard that from a CO who I was speaking with this winter checking me ice fishing....if those two go on an archery only draw and there is no opportunity to hunt them during the general season, then I would have much more of a problem as hunters would have no opportunity to bow hunt if they are primarily rifle hunters or vice versa.

[RayM77]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;2765183]Are you sure about that? Did you tap the phone call?


The context was clear. The ABA Pres. was leery of seeking a greater allocation % so the alternative was to seek a way to reduce the number of bowhunters. This is why the ABA Pres. sought the split exclusive draw instead of following the current Pronghorn Model. The stated desire was to have a separate exclusive draw system based on the rational that this would eliminate the casual bowhunters from applying, resulting in lowering the overall number of bowhunters and thus maintaining a low priority requirement to draw for the serious bowhunters.

It is clear that the current Pronghorn Draw model shows that the number of Archery applicants has remained equal to the provincial average of bowhunters. This system works to include ALL bowhunters, not just the hardcore...

Did you tap the cell phone call? Or was it a three way call you guys were on. My clarification came from talking to Brent myself. If you think you could do a better job WB elections for the ABA are coming up.
You should really look into the definition of conservation. With more people and less resources people can not have every thing for ever. Split draws don't exclude any hunters, anyone can put in for any draw they want( hard core or not) they just have to chose which one works best for them. I don't see people freeking out because there is a moose draw for calling season and a late season draw. I think that we could learn a lot from states like Iowa that use archery seasons and primitive wepon seasons as a tool. Maybe we should switch things around so it is a three week general season and a 12 week archery seasons so the less "hard core" would be more inclined to hunt in the archery season.

[rednuck]

What is the benefit (if there is one) of splitting the draw. vs cancelling the general mule deer tag, adjusting the draw allocations to include bow harvest and keeping the seasons.

The not so hardcore bow hunter could use his draw tag to hunt with a bow, and then a rifle if he didn't connect during archery.

The main people effected would be hardcore bow hunters that never send in draws, or send in for a different wmu then they bow hunt in. This probably isn't that many people.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Stinkhammer

Did you tap the cell phone call? Or was it a three way call you guys were on. My clarification came from talking to Brent myself. If you think you could do a better job WB elections for the ABA are coming up.
You should really look into the definition of conservation. With more people and less resources people can not have every thing for ever. Split draws don't exclude any hunters, anyone can put in for any draw they want( hard core or not) they just have to chose which one works best for them. I don't see people freeking out because there is a moose draw for calling season and a late season draw. I think that we could learn a lot from states like Iowa that use archery seasons and primitive wepon seasons as a tool. Maybe we should switch things around so it is a three week general season and a 12 week archery seasons so the less "hard core" would be more inclined to hunt in the archery season.

I am also speaking from direct conversations with Brent. It was the same call when Brent told me of his plan to table a Spear/Atlatl ban proposal to AGMAG, even though the ABA membership had not been consulted on it.

No thanks, I have no interest in joining the ABA. Perhaps I will when the current direction of the group becomes more moderate and willing to work with other hunting groups.

Sure, I agree that there are circumstances where a draw season is necessary. I am sorry to see a lack of defined policy, an increased pressure to produce "Trophy" animals in combination with restrictive regimes has been responsible for many archery seasons to go on draw when they could have been maintained as a general season without conservation concerns.

Did you notice how several archery moose seasons are proposed to go on a draw despite the harvest level being Zero.... And the ABA is in support of this?


My issues with this exclusive draw proposal focus on two main concerns.

First is that there is no defined archery allocation in policy. This must be addressed.

Second is that statistical analysis of the current Pronghorn Draw system shows a near 1:1 symbiotic yearly trend between archery application %s and the provincial % of archery hunters. The current Model of allowing people to apply for both archery and general weapon seasons in the same year works as a best option to provide full opportunity to all hunters, archery and rifle, casual and hardcore. Why go to an exclusive model that will inevitably cause a shift in applications producing a reduction in access for one user group?

[stob]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Governments don't control the weather BUT they do control the tag allocations, the problem is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

How many people whine when a zone that was their go to place goes on draw? All they want is opportunity. So the Government issues duplicate tags, now the Hunter complain because too many deer/elk are shot....so now what?

Many people are so short sighted and so dare I say selfish that as long as they have tags in their pockets they could care less till the next year when they have tags in their pocket again.

There is a bigger picture that few seem to realize till they are faced head on with the consequences. Many folks have no restraint....even if the numbers are down and they know it, as long as they have a tag it's getting filled come hell or high water. I buy a lot of tags because I hunt a lot and I need a tag to have that opportunity, no way in hell have I ever filled every tag I held in a single season. I have let my antlered mule draw go unfilled 3 times over 15-20 years, not because I could not have filled it, but because I didn't find the mature animal I was looking for.

I see it with fishing to, how many times have I heard "I paid 20bucks for my fishing license so I'll be damned if I go home empty handed...."

Changes to the system should not be a shock to anyone....

LC

x2 on all points made

[Evil69]

I am torn on this new rule. I bow hunt and rifle hunt. I am very selective when bow hunting, passing up a few dozen shooter class Whitetails and a 5x5 elk last season looking for "the right" animal knowing I had opportunity during rifle season to put food in the freezer. With this new rule I may not be as selective if I know I'm only getting a chance to shoot an animal every few years...or longer if the priority system teaches us anything. I guess my point is that as a bow hunter I can be selective because I don't feel pressured to fulfill a rare opportunity. This rule takes that away and by the optics of it to simply sell more tags to a particular group.

The "too many bowhunters" statement...that's a laugh. I had permission from entire ranches to myself during bow season last year because of so few bow hunters...Ranch X 10 days on 4 sections and only ever saw the ranch hand and a pair of rifle hunters scouting for the November season...Ranch Y 6 days on 2 sections and not a soul...Ranch Z 4 days on 4 sections and only ever saw the ranch hands do the cattle round up from the next hill top over. Yet come rifle season I couldn't get more than 1 day on said ranches because so many people applied/asked.

Yes there is a casual bow hunter element out there but I don't think they are the scourge the hard core crew makes them out to be. I'm all for expanding the sport and getting more new people involved not limiting it to an exclusive few but I think "bow only" draws will only put more inexperienced bow hunters out there because they can pull a "draw" quicker than rifle. Perhaps a mandatory Bow Hunters education course like the new hunters education?

just my .02

[J D]

Basically Alberta was screwed by magical numbers that had no solid backing and it cost the archery mule deer season.

The only reason there was no split draw to adjust for the lose of archery season was time deciding how to run the archery draw.

Agree with the new draw or not it does not take away from the rifle draw. Odds are going to change but time will tell how much effect it will have