I want a FLAT shooter.

[gitrdun]

This flat shooter topic comes up often. A fellow wants to discard his 30-06 for a more "flat" shooting .270WIN, or so on and so on. I would love to see a definition of a flat shooter vs one that isn't. Of course I'm not speaking of a 30-30 vs a 220 Swift, so let's stay within parameters. Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all. Flat shooting seems to be an overused and misunderstood phrase. Define flat shooting.

[Skytop B]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

This flat shooter topic comes up often. A fellow wants to discard his 30-06 for a more "flat" shooting .270WIN, or so on and so on. I would love to see a definition of a flat shooter vs one that isn't. Of course I'm not speaking of a 30-30 vs a 220 Swift, so let's stay within parameters. Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all. Flat shooting seems to be an overused and misunderstood phrase. Define flat shooting.

This is what comes to mind when guys talk about flat shooting guns

[hunter0968]

257 weatherby.

[north american hunter]

.22 loudenboomer



Or the 270 weatherby.

[roger]

Originally Posted by hunter0968

257 weatherby.

Would have to agree here. That's why igot two. As far as legal hunting cartridges in alberta is concerned it can handle most situations. Without punishing recoil its a cartridge that will last a hunters lifetime.
It's not without its demons.
Imo a flat shooter is any time the horsepower to bullet weight ratio is imbalanced to favour improved velocity.
Also there has to be a donor cartridge in order to create a benchmark level of performance.

The 257stw is another notch up from the 257 wby.
There have been a few pilots of 257/300wby that are stellar performers. But barrel lifecycle is in the few hundred round category. It is the demon.
So back to the drawing board.

[510-Gem]

Originally Posted by hunter0968

257 weatherby.

X2

[gtita]

Skytop B,

I loved your answer to the asked issue! However, I'm afraid that not even laser guns shoot absolutely flat. Indeed, as a result of Einstein's famous equation E=mc^2 and Maxwell's electromagnetic equations, light is affected by gravity, which means that its propagation is not absolutely "flat" (i.e. linearly directed).

But who knows, sometime a rifle manufacturer in partnership with a bullet manufacturer may come out with an astounding innovation relying on hyperspace principles.

[Skytop B]

Originally Posted by gtita

Skytop B,

I loved your answer to the asked issue! However, I'm afraid that not even laser guns shoot absolutely flat. Indeed, as a result of Einstein's famous equation E=mc^2 and Maxwell's electromagnetic equations, light is affected by gravity, which means that its propagation is not absolutely "flat" (i.e. linearly directed).

But who knows, sometime a rifle manufacturer in partnership with a bullet manufacturer may come out with an astounding innovation relying on hyperspace principles.

Fair enough but that is actually an electro magnetic pulse ray gun, light years ahead of a measly laser

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all.

I would say because too many people don't get out and actually shoot their rifles enough to know where to hold. Therefore they read something in a magazine and try to adapt it to their next purchase.

I have talked to many people while working on a gun counter that shoot 1 box of ammo every 3 or 4 years, try and tell me their 270 is way flatter than a 30/06. Or their 300 Win Mag is slower than their 300 WSM, but with the same 180 grain bullets the Win Mag bucks the wind better and hits harder.

And my definition of flat is the 26 Nosler. I read it in a magazine!

[Skytop B]

Was told not too long ago by a self proclaimed xpurt that the 17HMR is flat shooting to 500 yards, oh and the muzzle brake on his 338 WM increased the muzzle velocity by 500 fps

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by Skytop B

Was told not too long ago by a self proclaimed xpurt that the 17HMR is flat shooting to 500 yards, oh and the muzzle brake on his 338 WM increased the muzzle velocity by 500 fps

Now I got to get a muzzle break




Jk

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Skytop B

Was told not too long ago by a self proclaimed xpurt that the 17HMR is flat shooting to 500 yards, oh and the muzzle brake on his 338 WM increased the muzzle velocity by 500 fps

I have met a few idiots like that, perhaps they were related to the one that told you that nonsense?

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have met a few idiots like that, perhaps they were related to the one that told you that nonsense?

Related or ret...

[wolf308]

204 ruger

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have met a few idiots like that, perhaps they were related to the one that told you that nonsense?

Wasn't there someone shooting a .270win lazer beam not so long ago?

LC

[fenceline]

300 rum 130 gr barnex flat shooting .

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

This flat shooter topic comes up often. A fellow wants to discard his 30-06 for a more "flat" shooting .270WIN, or so on and so on. I would love to see a definition of a flat shooter vs one that isn't. Of course I'm not speaking of a 30-30 vs a 220 Swift, so let's stay within parameters. Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all. Flat shooting seems to be an overused and misunderstood phrase. Define flat shooting.

For Coyotes I like things flat. My favourite is the 243/243 AI shooting 55gr BT's at 4k. It definitely gives a bit of margin for error when a rangefinder cannot be deployed quick enough. An inch or two can definitely make a difference here.

[Bushleague]

I define "Flat shooter" as a cartridge with a maximum point blank range of around 300 yards. I like a "flat shooter" because 300 yards is as far as I am comfortable shooting in the field and I hate carrying around extra junk like a range finder. With a "flat shooter" I only need to be able to judge two ranges, "close enough" and "too far", both of which I have a pretty good handle on, I then simply point and shoot.

So for me MPBR of 300 yards = flat shooter.
I like a flat shooter because I don't need to use a range finder or a hold over out to what I call my maximum hunting range.

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I define "Flat shooter" as a cartridge with a maximum point blank range of around 300 yards. I like a "flat shooter" because 300 yards is as far as I am comfortable shooting in the field and I hate carrying around extra junk like a range finder. With a "flat shooter" I only need to be able to judge two ranges, "close enough" and "too far", both of which I have a pretty good handle on, I then simply point and shoot.

So for me MPBR of 300 yards = flat shooter.
I like a flat shooter because I don't need to use a range finder or a hold over out to what I call my maximum hunting range.

ditto ...well said

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I define "Flat shooter" as a cartridge with a maximum point blank range of around 300 yards. I like a "flat shooter" because 300 yards is as far as I am comfortable shooting in the field and I hate carrying around extra junk like a range finder. With a "flat shooter" I only need to be able to judge two ranges, "close enough" and "too far", both of which I have a pretty good handle on, I then simply point and shoot.

So for me MPBR of 300 yards = flat shooter.
I like a flat shooter because I don't need to use a range finder or a hold over out to what I call my maximum hunting range.

Zero your laser beam at 300 yards then?? 4-5" high at 100? Or 2 -3" high at 100? Depending on the strength of the laser lol.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

Zero your laser beam at 300 yards then?? 4-5" high at 100? Or 2 -3" high at 100? Depending on the strength of the laser lol.

Nope, I sight my .270 win 3" high at 100, with 130 grain bullets it is around 3" low at 300. Not exactly a laser beam but dead deer as far as I can shoot them.

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Nope, I sight my .270 win 3" high at 100, with 130 grain bullets it is around 3" low at 300. Not exactly a laser beam but dead deer as far as I can shoot them.

I personally believe that you are better off buying a great scope with a built in drop compensation system. I purchased a Huskemaw and have had the round and 300 wsm I shoot calibrated with the scope.

Works like a charm and you can reach out and nail the critters a long way out with the right caliber rifle. Turn the turret aim and shoot! Takes all of the guess work out of it and provides humane kills at longer distances

[FallAirFever]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Nope, I sight my .270 win 3" high at 100, with 130 grain bullets it is around 3" low at 300. Not exactly a laser beam but dead deer as far as I can shoot them.

I am not a long distance hunter and the above "rule of thumb" has worked well for me so far. Both in my 270 win and 308 win.

Like Duceman says flat is relative. For me MPBR of around 300yards is plenty flat enough for what I do.

When it comes to women anything less than a C is flat in my books but thats a discussion for another time and place ...

[CNP]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

This flat shooter topic comes up often. A fellow wants to discard his 30-06 for a more "flat" shooting .270WIN, or so on and so on. I would love to see a definition of a flat shooter vs one that isn't. Of course I'm not speaking of a 30-30 vs a 220 Swift, so let's stay within parameters. Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all. Flat shooting seems to be an overused and misunderstood phrase. Define flat shooting.

Any rifle can be a flat shooter 30.06 with 150gr high bc load zeroed at 250 yards will hit 15 inches low at 400

My flat shooter is a 25.06 shooting a 100 gr load. I can shoot flatter with 85gr loads....................but what am I shooting at? Paper is easy to kill.

[DaleJ]

A laser beam shoots flat. Everything else requires trajectory. Light weight high velocity = flat shooting to 300 yds. and a pile of trajectory to get to 500 yds. Flat shooting is reserved for wind proof bullets.

Allen Magnums shooting long for caliber bullets. Case size alone doesn't make a flat shooter, a long bullet in a fast twist barrel will make the 257 Wby with a 1:10 twist look like a 30-30.

[roger]

Great thread, and some interesting definitions of things.
But in the end they all kinda end up with the results.
Have a great day... Only two more days before starting to christmas shop.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

a long bullet in a fast twist barrel will make the 257 Wby with a 1:10 twist look like a 30-30.

the 257 will be flatter to beyond hunting ranges where 99 percent of people shoot so you arent flat wrong just 99 percent

[bigredviking]

Flat shooting - a number of definitions above. Some of them accurate, some of them useful, few of them functional when it actually comes to putting a bullet in the correct place. I always recommend (and with those who learn to hunt with me I insist) knowing something about the ballistics of your gun/ammunition/bullet is required. Of course it is a learning curve as we learn bit-by-bit, just as we forget bit-by-bit. I always suggest a written table travel with every field gun and that it is read before it is needed. I review mine at the start of most field walks and just as I start a stalk. Below are examples of what they look like. These ones I have developed myself through shooting the gun/ammo combination at the different distances but using a calculated one is a good place to start. Working from a benchmark matters in my opinion.

.270 - piece of tape has been on the gun 25 years (200yd zero)
.50 cal inline (150yd zero)
7mm08 with scope info included (200yd zero)

[Kurt505]

Here is a Nosler 26 cartridge compared to a 300wsm.

As close to flat as scientists have come up with so far.

[Skytop B]

Not an expert, all I know is my 3 favorite guns shooting the best bullets at 1000m under the same conditions are:

300WM - 210 Berger VLD @ 2850fps = 8.7 mils
308 WIn - 178 AMAX @ 2600 fps = 12.4 mils
26 Nos with 129 LRAB @ 3300fps = 7.1 mils

All have 100m zero

Comparing apples to watermelons, I know.