Gunwerks Brass

[Kurt505]

Anyone use this stuff that can give me some insight on?

[Ruby76]

Its made by ADG, headstamped for gunwerks. It’s very high quality

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Ruby76

Its made by ADG, headstamped for gunwerks. It’s very high quality

Lapua quality?

[warriorboy10]

Originally Posted by Ruby76

Its made by ADG, headstamped for gunwerks. It’s very high quality

I heard that Gunwerks brass is manufactured by ADG but is actually manufactured by Hornady. The latter makes more sense due to the relationship Gunwerks has had with Hornady. Either way I am not certain who manufactures Gunwerks brass.

[Kurt505]

It looks annealed like Lapua.

[Smokinyotes]

It is priced ridiculously. You can buy 338 Lapua brass cheaper than the Gunwerks brass. I think 200 7LRM Gunwerks brass was over $700.00. I know lots of guys Run 72 grains of H1000 in their 7LRM’s. I can’t get over 70 gr or I have pressure issues. I find it to be soft crap. I thought it was made by Hornady.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

It is priced ridiculously. You can buy 338 Lapua brass cheaper than the Gunwerks brass. I think 200 7LRM Gunwerks brass was over $700.00. I know lots of guys Run 72 grains of H1000 in their 7LRM’s. I can’t get over 70 gr or I have pressure issues. I find it to be soft crap. I thought it was made by Hornady.

It’s cheaper than Nosler, Nosler is $420 for 100, the Gunwerks is only $300 for 100. Funny you say it’s soft, it looks hardened like Lapua brass.

[41thunder]

I “believe” the old stuff was hornady
They came out with their new line and I’ve heard also it’s adg

[Smokinyotes]

The primer pockets seem to get loose even with moderate loads. The brass that I tried 72 grains in all went in the garbage the pockets were so loose.

[warriorboy10]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

The primer pockets seem to get loose even with moderate loads. The brass that I tried 72 grains in all went in the garbage the pockets were so loose.

Which Gunwerks brass do you think it was, Hornady or ADG?

I plan on doing some research to confirm the actual manufacturer.

[Ruby76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Lapua quality?

Guys are saying at least if not better than lapua.

[Ruby76]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

I heard that Gunwerks brass is manufactured by ADG but is actually manufactured by Hornady. The latter makes more sense due to the relationship Gunwerks has had with Hornady. Either way I am not certain who manufactures Gunwerks brass.

It’s the “premium” line of brass that gunwerks is selling that is made by ADG.

[Ruby76]

Great north precision in Kelowna is a distributor for the gunwerks brass so we can get it in Canada. I’ve been in contact with ADG and they are interested in a Canadian distributor for their entire line of brass, coming out with new cartridges too.

[warriorboy10]

Originally Posted by Ruby76

It’s the “premium” line of brass that gunwerks is selling that is made by ADG.

Gunwerks has different grades of brass?

[41thunder]

Precision optics in quesnel
Sylvester’s source for sports
Prophet river
All carry gunwerks as well

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

Which Gunwerks brass do you think it was, Hornady or ADG?

I plan on doing some research to confirm the actual manufacturer.

I was told it was made by Hornady.

[Beeman3]

what caliber/cartridge do you need? No other options? If it is made by ADG I believe it will be good from what I have heard.

[Kurt505]

It’s for a 300 rum and I can get 100 for $300.

[Beeman3]

If it is ADG that's not a bad price. I bought 100 pieces of NORMA 300 RUM last year from RPS int. for my 338 EDGE build. Don't remember what the price was.

[bubba300]

I used remington and nosler brass for my 300 rum,I really didn't mind the remington.I probably had 5 or 6 firings on it with no problems.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bubba300

I used remington and nosler brass for my 300 rum,I really didn't mind the remington.I probably had 5 or 6 firings on it with no problems.

Remington worked well for me, and I thought prices were high at less than $1 per case back then.

[bubba300]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Remington worked well for me, and I thought prices were high at less than $1 per case back then.

Ya they were exspensive also ,think about 2 bucks a piece is what I paid but better than 3 bucks.I bought some managed recoil factory stuff for $35 a box at cabellas about 6 years ago.I bought 3 boxes of the same lot # just for the brass and pulled the bullets.I did try them and they did shoot pretty good.
That rum has bin gone now for quite awhile,it was like a lazer to 500 yards.It shot 200 gr accubonds & retumbo under a inch at a 100 most days if I could hang onto it.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It’s cheaper than Nosler, Nosler is $420 for 100, the Gunwerks is only $300 for 100. Funny you say it’s soft, it looks hardened like Lapua brass.

Smokinyotes says it is soft because he thought it was made by Hornady and it is obvious that he is basing his conclusions on some very poor reloading practices and personal bias rather than any concrete evidence. Much like in the 6.5 threads .
I know lots of guys Run 72 grains of H1000 in their 7LRM’s. I can’t get over 70 gr or I have pressure issues. I find it to be soft crap. I thought it was made by Hornady.
12-17-2018 07:23 PM
The primer pockets seem to get loose even with moderate loads. The brass that I tried 72 grains in all went in the garbage the pockets were so loose.

The annealing marks on the Lapua brass are there because they do not polish them off like Remington/Winchester or Hornady. All brass is annealed many times during the manufacturing process. The web area is not annealed and is actually work hardened by the drawing out process and finally by the head stamping process. Annealing actually softens work hardened brass and is only used in the neck shoulder area.

I have done a lot of testing with different brass in my 20 and 20-223 Extreme and can assure you that IMI,Sako, Hornady and Winchester, brass are all harder than Lapua and Dakota in 222 & 223 cases. I put together a chart showing the results of using different brass brands and sizing methods when developing a load for a friends 270 Win with the 150 LRAB and IMR 7977 that was supposed to get 2940 fps @ 61,300 Psi at Hodgdon's Max 60.8 Compressed load. As you will see there is quite a difference in case capacity among brands and different sizing methods. This and the base diameter, at the 0.200" Base Datum, have a profound effect on the pressures and velocity and loading to someone's maximum powder charge is quite foolish.

I will use this chart to illustrate the proper way to get maximum performance from a Cartridge Case/Bullet/ Powder combination without damaging the brass.
[IMG][/IMG]
First off I took a look at the Saami Maximum Cartridge dimensions as per their drawings and then did a drawing of my own that I could use to estimate Case Capacity of IMR 7977 under the seated 150 LRAB in different senarios.
The Sammi Measurements showed 0.4698" as maximum cartridge diameter at the 0.200" datum which is 0.001" under Saami Minimum Chamber. I had Some FC 150 Fusion and Hornady Superformance ammo to use as base line to determine max pressure by Base datum Expansion. I found 0.4694" to be tha maximum for both the federal and hornady Factory Loads which is under the Saami Minimum Cartridge specs. I had access to once fired brass and found Remington Brass to have the smallest Base Datum measurement at 0.4667" and RCBS FL sizing dies did not size the Base datum until after firing for the second time. Surprisingly the FL Sixed brass did not have any amount of case stretch and got 79 fps more velocity than a Neck sixed case with the same Base diameter with 0.5 grains less powder. In fact after the second firing and FL sizing the only difference was the Base diameter and the Velocity was closer to the NS brass than the once fired FL sized brass?

The Federal brass did not have enough capacity to run the 150 grain bullet to Hodgdon's Max with IMR 7977 nor did the Barnes, Remington or Nosler even if Neck Sized. The WW Super Neck sized brass held the same as the FL Hornady FL brass which was the Max. Load compressed in both. The Winchester brass got the 150 LRAB to 2899fps and the Hornady brass got 2906 fps. As you can see the Hornady bass was not touched by the FL die, at the Base Datum and would only be worked less than 0.001" after pushing the 150 LRAB to 2906 which would be very close to max with an over Book Max load. I found the accuracy load to be slightly less than the max load and the Hornady brass will be good for many FL sizing's and reloads.

The best brass is "The brass that works best in a given application regardless of Head Stamp". If you don't know how to determine that then you resort to running down one brand while praising another as Smokinyoties has done without any evidence to back up his statements.

[marky_mark]

Doing my research prior with the 7 lrm I think the main culprit was inconstant thickness of the brass in the necks. From what I recall they had to be turned or people were getting pressure signs far too early.

I have found I had to do this with lapua brass as well. Not sure if it made it more accurate. But I think it helped with fliers and wild es

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Smokinyotes says it is soft because he thought it was made by Hornady and it is obvious that he is basing his conclusions on some very poor reloading practices and personal bias rather than any concrete evidence. Much like in the 6.5 threads .
I know lots of guys Run 72 grains of H1000 in their 7LRM’s. I can’t get over 70 gr or I have pressure issues. I find it to be soft crap. I thought it was made by Hornady.
12-17-2018 07:23 PM
The primer pockets seem to get loose even with moderate loads. The brass that I tried 72 grains in all went in the garbage the pockets were so loose.

The annealing marks on the Lapua brass are there because they do not polish them off like Remington/Winchester or Hornady. All brass is annealed many times during the manufacturing process. The web area is not annealed and is actually work hardened by the drawing out process and finally by the head stamping process. Annealing actually softens work hardened brass and is only used in the neck shoulder area.

I have done a lot of testing with different brass in my 20 and 20-223 Extreme and can assure you that IMI,Sako, Hornady and Winchester, brass are all harder than Lapua and Dakota in 222 & 223 cases. I put together a chart showing the results of using different brass brands and sizing methods when developing a load for a friends 270 Win with the 150 LRAB and IMR 7977 that was supposed to get 2940 fps @ 61,300 Psi at Hodgdon's Max 60.8 Compressed load. As you will see there is quite a difference in case capacity among brands and different sizing methods. This and the base diameter, at the 0.200" Base Datum, have a profound effect on the pressures and velocity and loading to someone's maximum powder charge is quite foolish.

I will use this chart to illustrate the proper way to get maximum performance from a Cartridge Case/Bullet/ Powder combination without damaging the brass.
[IMG][/IMG]
First off I took a look at the Saami Maximum Cartridge dimensions as per their drawings and then did a drawing of my own that I could use to estimate Case Capacity of IMR 7977 under the seated 150 LRAB in different senarios.
The Sammi Measurements showed 0.4698" as maximum cartridge diameter at the 0.200" datum which is 0.001" under Saami Minimum Chamber. I had Some FC 150 Fusion and Hornady Superformance ammo to use as base line to determine max pressure by Base datum Expansion. I found 0.4694" to be tha maximum for both the federal and hornady Factory Loads which is under the Saami Minimum Cartridge specs. I had access to once fired brass and found Remington Brass to have the smallest Base Datum measurement at 0.4667" and RCBS FL sizing dies did not size the Base datum until after firing for the second time. Surprisingly the FL Sixed brass did not have any amount of case stretch and got 79 fps more velocity than a Neck sixed case with the same Base diameter with 0.5 grains less powder. In fact after the second firing and FL sizing the only difference was the Base diameter and the Velocity was closer to the NS brass than the once fired FL sized brass?

The Federal brass did not have enough capacity to run the 150 grain bullet to Hodgdon's Max with IMR 7977 nor did the Barnes, Remington or Nosler even if Neck Sized. The WW Super Neck sized brass held the same as the FL Hornady FL brass which was the Max. Load compressed in both. The Winchester brass got the 150 LRAB to 2899fps and the Hornady brass got 2906 fps. As you can see the Hornady bass was not touched by the FL die, at the Base Datum and would only be worked less than 0.001" after pushing the 150 LRAB to 2906 which would be very close to max with an over Book Max load. I found the accuracy load to be slightly less than the max load and the Hornady brass will be good for many FL sizing's and reloads.

The best brass is "The brass that works best in a given application regardless of Head Stamp". If you don't know how to determine that then you resort to running down one brand while praising another as Smokinyoties has done without any evidence to back up his statements.

And how would you know what my reloading practices are. You have no idea how I prepped my brass, where my starting load was, how far off the lands I’m seating at. If you want to try and bash me some more send me a pm.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

And how would you know what my reloading practices are. You have no idea how I prepped my brass, where my starting load was, how far off the lands I’m seating at. If you want to try and bash me some more send me a pm.

Because as per usual, he makes incorrect assumptions based on his charts and drawings. He fails to acknowledge that even the manufacturers vary the dimensions from the SAAMI standards.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

And how would you know what my reloading practices are. You have no idea how I prepped my brass, where my starting load was, how far off the lands I’m seating at. If you want to try and bash me some more send me a pm.

Marky may be on to something as I believe the 7mm LRM is running some tight tolerances.
Doing my research prior with the 7 lrm I think the main culprit was inconstant thickness of the brass in the necks. From what I recall they had to be turned or people were getting pressure signs far too early.

I have found I had to do this with lapua brass as well. Not sure if it made it more accurate. But I think it helped with fliers and wild es

I would sooner see you post some actual figures like neck thickness, jump to lands, Velocity, Barrel length rather than just the bash the brass because you thought it was made by Hornady. A little research tells me that a moderate load with the 180 Berger Hybrid would be more like 71.2 grains if running 0.020" off the lands. Gunwerks claim 3075-3000 with 72 grains of H 1000 and the 180 Berger Hybrid seated 0.080' off in a 26" barrel. If you had measured case head expansion, as I outlined, and did a pressure ladder, over a chronograph, starting at about 70 grains you would not have destroyed the brass and likely found nice accuracy node at at about 3000 fps. The 7mm Sherman Short will do that with about 61 grains of RL 26 and run a 195 EOL to 2900 with 59 gains of RL 26. I never would have thought that possible when I designed the 28 EXTREME (7mm Magnum capacity) which is virtually the same as the 7mm LRM. There is a reason why the 6.5 PRC does what it does with less than 60 grains of powder.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Marky may be on to something as I believe the 7mm LRM is running some tight tolerances.
Doing my research prior with the 7 lrm I think the main culprit was inconstant thickness of the brass in the necks. From what I recall they had to be turned or people were getting pressure signs far too early.

I have found I had to do this with lapua brass as well. Not sure if it made it more accurate. But I think it helped with fliers and wild es

I would sooner see you post some actual figures like neck thickness, jump to lands, Velocity, Barrel length rather than just the bash the brass because you thought it was made by Hornady. A little research tells me that a moderate load with the 180 Berger Hybrid would be more like 71.2 grains if running 0.020" off the lands. Gunwerks claim 3075-3000 with 72 grains of H 1000 and the 180 Berger Hybrid seated 0.080' off in a 26" barrel. If you had measured case head expansion, as I outlined, and did a pressure ladder, over a chronograph, starting at about 70 grains you would not have destroyed the brass and likely found nice accuracy node at at about 3000 fps. The 7mm Sherman Short will do that with about 61 grains of RL 26 and run a 195 EOL to 2900 with 59 gains of RL 26. I never would have thought that possible when I designed the 28 EXTREME (7mm Magnum capacity) which is virtually the same as the 7mm LRM. There is a reason why the 6.5 PRC does what it does with less than 60 grains of powder.

That’s where some of the problems are. With the 7lrm they had inconsistent brass from lot to lot. Early in the production run especially. The expectation is that it is made to spec. But in reality its a mass produced product that is relying on tolerances to a couple thou and when it’s less than a buck a piece. Chances that everything is perfect all the time is pretty low

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Marky may be on to something as I believe the 7mm LRM is running some tight tolerances.
Doing my research prior with the 7 lrm I think the main culprit was inconstant thickness of the brass in the necks. From what I recall they had to be turned or people were getting pressure signs far too early.

I have found I had to do this with lapua brass as well. Not sure if it made it more accurate. But I think it helped with fliers and wild es

I would sooner see you post some actual figures like neck thickness, jump to lands, Velocity, Barrel length rather than just the bash the brass because you thought it was made by Hornady. A little research tells me that a moderate load with the 180 Berger Hybrid would be more like 71.2 grains if running 0.020" off the lands. Gunwerks claim 3075-3000 with 72 grains of H 1000 and the 180 Berger Hybrid seated 0.080' off in a 26" barrel. If you had measured case head expansion, as I outlined, and did a pressure ladder, over a chronograph, starting at about 70 grains you would not have destroyed the brass and likely found nice accuracy node at at about 3000 fps. The 7mm Sherman Short will do that with about 61 grains of RL 26 and run a 195 EOL to 2900 with 59 gains of RL 26. I never would have thought that possible when I designed the 28 EXTREME (7mm Magnum capacity) which is virtually the same as the 7mm LRM. There is a reason why the 6.5 PRC does what it does with less than 60 grains of powder.

Of coarse I checked case head expansion and never got to .001 expansion until 72 grains. Turning the necks is not the issue. If you need to know it’s a 31” #17 Kreiger heavy varmint running 3155 FPS. But hey congratulations you have made my ignore list, now I will no longer have to look at the kindergarten pictures anymore.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Of coarse I checked case head expansion and never got to .001 expansion until 72 grains. Turning the necks is not the issue. If you need to know it’s a 31” #17 Kreiger heavy varmint running 3155 FPS. But hey congratulations you have made my ignore list, now I will no longer have to look at the kindergarten pictures anymore.

In case you take a look at this you really didn't get anything from my "Kindergarten pictures " as you call them. 0.0001" case head expansion is likely over max pressure in any cartridge. At 3155 with a 180 VLD and 0.001" CHE your pressures are likely getting over "Proof Pressures", at 75-80 K.

If you had actually paid attention to my drawings and charts you would be measuring about 0.002" expansion on new brass at the Base Datum. This is at 0.200" or ahead of the case web which contains the primer pocket. If the pressures do not expand the Base Datum to more than the Saami, or designers maximum cartridge diameter at the base datum, as I described in the 270 Win load workup there will be no "case head expansion. You will note that the Factory Ammo is designed this way and the reason I used it as a base for determining Max Pressure measured at the 0.200 Datum.
7mm Rem Mag- 180 Berger H 1000 -69.5 C=2884 Hodgdon Data
7 mm Wby Mag- 180 Berger H1000 - 72.1C = 2891 Hodgdon data
7mm STW - 180 Berger H 1000 - 76.6= 2987 Hodgdom data
28 Nos - 180 berger H1000 74.5= 2892 Hodgdon data

You are much better at bashing other peoples methods and components than you are at understanding proper load development. However you are not alone.