This months Rifleshooter Magazine...

[Stinky Coyote]

Plenty of Gun, By Craig Boddington on the 375 h&h on Cape Buffalo, is it enough? He says yes although the 400’s are slightly more decisive, slightly more adequate. That the baseline is a 375 h&h with 300 gr expanding. Reduces it down to typical muzzle velocity/energy numbers. He states solids are too much and can’t herd shoot without risk over over penetration so the expanding 300 is preferable.

He said the African Buffalo isn’t impressed by ft/lbs, the only thing he responds to is bullet placement. He lost one with a shot too forward with a 375 thinking he was good and said nothing short of a pack howitzer would have helped.

He had another article called No Magic Bullet and it center’s on the 6.5 CM and also touches on the rest of the 6.5’s...PRC, 26 Nosler, 6.5-300, 264 win mag, 260/Swede and the hype going along with them, he isn’t on board. Final thoughts are that the PRC with a good bullet would make a fine 400 yrd elk cartridge.

What I found interesting was how in one article he wasn’t tied to energy, placement trumped all, and then in the next article more centered around elk suitability and also trying to say there are no magical qualities to explain why the popularity and hype. Then ties heavily to more energy required for elk, and more frontal area. He presented another shooter who took an eland with a Cm no prob, then lost an elk with the same later yet didn’t say a thing about placement as king. In one article the blame on the shooter, the other article the blame on the cartridge. Hmmm

In neither article was there mention of sd or impact velocity, penetration was touched vaguely through both articles.

Great writer, so much experience, would love to see someone pick his brain on all the kills he can recall and show correlation between the standard long time views to the newer look?

The myths he’s seeing as myths in what’s hot right now around the 6.5’s hype etc. in a way, the same as the myths many now see as myths between head stamps, diam., and energy numbers. There may be far less writing to do if the myths aren’t there however, clever to not limit ones ability to put food on the table.😉

Reading between the lines required perhaps? The info is always there, one must decide what that is or how to make the most sense of it. Anyone else read these through yet?

[260 Rem]

N0 doubt the experts have their own biases. Bottom line for those of us that have taken Alberta big game over the last 40 - 50 years ... know that terminal performance on game can be pretty unpredictable. We have seen the results of bullets that did some pretty crazy things once inside an animal. We have also watched game react differently ... some drop instantly from shots placed in the boiler room where others go hundreds of meters with broken shoulders and half a heart.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Plenty of Gun, By Craig Boddington on the 375 h&h on Cape Buffalo, is it enough? He says yes although the 400’s are slightly more decisive, slightly more adequate. That the baseline is a 375 h&h with 300 gr expanding. Reduces it down to typical muzzle velocity/energy numbers. He states solids are too much and can’t herd shoot without risk over over penetration so the expanding 300 is preferable.

He said the African Buffalo isn’t impressed by ft/lbs, the only thing he responds to is bullet placement. He lost one with a shot too forward with a 375 thinking he was good and said nothing short of a pack howitzer would have helped.

He had another article called No Magic Bullet and it center’s on the 6.5 CM and also touches on the rest of the 6.5’s...PRC, 26 Nosler, 6.5-300, 264 win mag, 260/Swede and the hype going along with them, he isn’t on board. Final thoughts are that the PRC with a good bullet would make a fine 400 yrd elk cartridge.

What I found interesting was how in one article he wasn’t tied to energy, placement trumped all, and then in the next article more centered around elk suitability and also trying to say there are no magical qualities to explain why the popularity and hype. Then ties heavily to more energy required for elk, and more frontal area. He presented another shooter who took an eland with a Cm no prob, then lost an elk with the same later yet didn’t say a thing about placement as king. In one article the blame on the shooter, the other article the blame on the cartridge. Hmmm

In neither article was there mention of sd or impact velocity, penetration was touched vaguely through both articles.

Great writer, so much experience, would love to see someone pick his brain on all the kills he can recall and show correlation between the standard long time views to the newer look?

The myths he’s seeing as myths in what’s hot right now around the 6.5’s hype etc. in a way, the same as the myths many now see as myths between head stamps, diam., and energy numbers. There may be far less writing to do if the myths aren’t there however, clever to not limit ones ability to put food on the table.😉

Reading between the lines required perhaps? The info is always there, one must decide what that is or how to make the most sense of it. Anyone else read these through yet?

Shot Placement should be a given when making any cartridge/bullet comparisons. It's one less variable that is not cartridge or bullet related. Recoil sensitivity is another.
As to Boddington not mentioning energy, that is also a given regarding the .375, as it meets the minimum energy requirement for DG in most African countries.(4000 ft/lbs) .. and yes, most would agree,, the 6.5 PRC would likely make a good 400 yd elk cartridge

Trying to pick a hole in what Boddington writes ??? Write him a letter. He must need some sorting out.

[catnthehat]

John Barsness did an article on "no magic bullet" a long time ago as well, as did O'Connor and Page , probably many others as well.....
Cat

[Stinky Coyote]

Have a feeling he’ll get lots of letters on the 400 yrd prc comments. No need here, I digest it all. Pointing out some observation in the differences he spoke of from one article to the next. What got attention and what didn’t. Shot placement king on one and cartridge to blame on the other.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Have a feeling he’ll get lots of letters on the 400 yrd prc comments. No need here, I digest it all. Pointing out some observation in the differences he spoke of from one article to the next. What got attention and what didn’t. Shot placement king on one and cartridge to blame on the other.

You sure have a way of taking things out of context... not so with Boddington.
Not a fair comparison, I know.

[Coiloil37]

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is a variation of the more general tendency of apophenia.

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence).

[Kapustacrk]

I have never hunted cape buffalo, or Africa..But wish to do one day. Most of these writers are ok guys but have to promote new stuff and see what pays there bills??? I believe that it is bullet placement, getting close to make an ethical shot/kill. I started out at 14yrs of age shooting a 250 sav. and that thing flipped them deer one shot if it was under 200 yds. It was magic, then got the magnum craze and they ran away for 50+ yds unless you did a shoulder shot.. Expelled way too much energy out side the animal !! Just my 2 cents.. I have hunted for 46+ yrs and believe this way out there stuff is over rated and like Cat what is wrong with the old 303 brit.??? KPCRK !!

[41thunder]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Have a feeling he’ll get lots of letters on the 400 yrd prc comments. No need here, I digest it all. Pointing out some observation in the differences he spoke of from one article to the next. What got attention and what didn’t. Shot placement king on one and cartridge to blame on the other.

I have a feeling he won’t lol. The guy has 90 some Cape buffalo under his belt what does he know lol? I recall he said he was fond of the 6.5x300 wby. You do realize that it’s a different ball game when your hunting dangerous game?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

I have a feeling he won’t lol. The guy has 90 some Cape buffalo under his belt what does he know lol? I recall he said he was fond of the 6.5x300 wby. You do realize that it’s a different ball game when your hunting dangerous game?

Calf moose is dangerous game.

[Nyksta]

Stinky Coyote you should go hunt dangerous game with your 6.5 grendel and tell us how it worked out for penetration and effectiveness.

[Norwest Alta]

No doubt shot placement is key. You've clearly illustrated that with your moose hunt.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Calf moose is dangerous game.

WELL, sorta kinda!
Cat

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Have a feeling he’ll get lots of letters on the 400 yrd prc comments. No need here, I digest it all. Pointing out some observation in the differences he spoke of from one article to the next. What got attention and what didn’t. Shot placement king on one and cartridge to blame on the other.

Had to crank out the article as the creditors were calling. J O'C had it right when he said anyone with some industry could become a writer.

[Pioneer2]

Recall a gun mag where a client hit a cape buffalo through the heart with a 300gr FMJ out of a .375 H+H and lost it. The next day the trackers took up the trail with one being knocked unconscious under the dead buffalo after it receiving a burst from the PH using a FNFAL.

[41thunder]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Calf moose is dangerous game.

It can definitely be a lot more dangerous than people think, that’s for sure.

[outdoorsman12b]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Have a feeling he’ll get lots of letters on the 400 yrd prc comments. No need here, I digest it all. Pointing out some observation in the differences he spoke of from one article to the next. What got attention and what didn’t. Shot placement king on one and cartridge to blame on the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmQfBUdCc-Q

I will just leave this here.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by outdoorsman12b

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmQfBUdCc-Q

I will just leave this here.

As for 6.5 caliber cartridges being shown on YouTube, I have seen more multiple shots to the vitals videos than one shot kill videos.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

No doubt shot placement is key. You've clearly illustrated that with your moose hunt.

You’re welcome that I could provide many samples of data with quick shooting and at one time.✌️

Also providing the truth knowing full well the witch hunt would be full out. 😉Kicking myself for not taking a pic of that liver though, was too bloody to pull out the phone at that point. Didn’t think much of the forum and evidence till everything in the garage.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

had to crank out the article as the creditors were calling. J o'c had it right when he said anyone with some industry could become a writer.

👍

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by kapustacrk

i have never hunted cape buffalo, or africa..but wish to do one day. Most of these writers are ok guys but have to promote new stuff and see what pays there bills??? I believe that it is bullet placement, getting close to make an ethical shot/kill. I started out at 14yrs of age shooting a 250 sav. And that thing flipped them deer one shot if it was under 200 yds. It was magic, then got the magnum craze and they ran away for 50+ yds unless you did a shoulder shot.. Expelled way too much energy out side the animal !! Just my 2 cents.. I have hunted for 46+ yrs and believe this way out there stuff is over rated and like cat what is wrong with the old 303 brit.??? Kpcrk !!

👍 Thanks for that.

And again, just pointing out how important ft/lbs energy is.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

N0 doubt the experts have their own biases. Bottom line for those of us that have taken Alberta big game over the last 40 - 50 years ... know that terminal performance on game can be pretty unpredictable. We have seen the results of bullets that did some pretty crazy things once inside an animal. We have also watched game react differently ... some drop instantly from shots placed in the boiler room where others go hundreds of meters with broken shoulders and half a heart.

Agree 100%

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is a variation of the more general tendency of apophenia.

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence).

Noted, almost could apply here.😉

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

Stinky Coyote you should go hunt dangerous game with your 6.5 grendel and tell us how it worked out for penetration and effectiveness.

Thread is more about terminal energy importance, even from a well known writer perspective seems to be all over on it.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by 41thunder

I have a feeling he won’t lol. The guy has 90 some Cape buffalo under his belt what does he know lol? I recall he said he was fond of the 6.5x300 wby. You do realize that it’s a different ball game when your hunting dangerous game?

Lol ya, and he said Cape buffalo don’t care about ft/lbs, only placement. He has at least 100 Cape buffalo now and the majority with a 375 h&h.

So if energy not important and placement is...what else would matter?

How about...you guessed it...appropriate for game sd, impact velocity and construction.😁

[Jeron Kahyar]

Wow you really can find any reason to tug your own horn over this. Glad you like your 6.5s but it is getting a little old...

I think Coiloil summed this one up nicely "Confirmation bias" maybe with a bit of straw man argument tactics.

[303carbine]

Boddington is an over rated gas bag, I sent him an email once asking him what tree bark soup tasted like because he nailed more trees than any thing else he shot at while hunting.
I never did get a response............

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

Wow you really can find any reason to tug your own horn over this. Glad you like your 6.5s but it is getting a little old...

I think Coiloil summed this one up nicely "Confirmation bias" maybe with a bit of straw man argument tactics.

Really trying too hard to prove his point. Maybe ten more threads and people will stop arguing and he will confirm he is correct. Lol.

[Kurt505]

One thing to keep in mind, gun writers get paid to write about guns, if the money is coming from your pocket, your going to have a say in what’s written.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

One thing to keep in mind, gun writers get paid to write about guns, if the money is coming from your pocket, your going to have a say in what’s written.

Who's paying Stinky?