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  #31  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:50 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Yuppers

At $65 for 20 factory cartrages in Canada,,, that sounds like a good deal. Ha
Cartridge!
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  #32  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:36 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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Originally Posted by 3blade View Post
Feeds more reliably
Factory barrels with the appropriate twist rate and length for modern projectiles
Most importantly, more factory ammo at a lower price (once production ramps up)

Yes, you can do all this with hand loading and your custom blah blah blah $5000 setup. Not the point. Just like the creedmoor, they took the lessons learned from the past and made something better available to the public at a reasonable price.

Some of you guys will never understand that not everyone has the time/space/opportunity to reload and build custom guns.
I’m pretty sure if you bought one of the handful of factory chambered Norma’s that it would have the correct twist and length. The factory savage I owned had a 30” tube and was f class ready out of the box. They are banking on a lot of production companies picking up the prc to be successful. It’s been out for a year and it still hasn’t happened. It’s a good idea but it literally mimics something that’s already on the market
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  #33  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:42 PM
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Still prefer my Cooper model 92 in the super sexy 280AI.
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  #34  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:44 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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Nice rig
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  #35  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:58 PM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 41thunder View Post
I’m pretty sure if you bought one of the handful of factory chambered Norma’s that it would have the correct twist and length. The factory savage I owned had a 30” tube and was f class ready out of the box.
Who has a production rifle chambered in 6.4x284 Norma? I haven't ever seen one myself. It may make a rifle decision easier!


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Originally Posted by 41thunder View Post
They are banking on a lot of production companies picking up the prc to be successful. It’s been out for a year and it still hasn’t happened. It’s a good idea but it literally mimics something that’s already on the market
They definitely need it to be picked up in some production rifles for it to be successful. But this is where the marketing hype comes in. They are not just selling you or me on it they are convincing rifle manufacturers that people will want it. One hand feeds the other in this case.
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:27 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
Who has a production rifle chambered in 6.4x284 Norma? I haven't ever seen one myself. It may make a rifle decision easier!




They definitely need it to be picked up in some production rifles for it to be successful. But this is where the marketing hype comes in. They are not just selling you or me on it they are convincing rifle manufacturers that people will want it. One hand feeds the other in this case.
It's safe to say that nobody makes a factory 6.4x284.
Savage and Cooper both sell 6.5x284 rifles
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:32 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
Who has a production rifle chambered in 6.4x284 Norma? I haven't ever seen one myself. It may make a rifle decision easier!




They definitely need it to be picked up in some production rifles for it to be successful. But this is where the marketing hype comes in. They are not just selling you or me on it they are convincing rifle manufacturers that people will want it. One hand feeds the other in this case.
Savage makes them. They have them in a few models also
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:16 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Yuppers

At $65 for 20 factory cartrages in Canada,,, that sounds like a good deal. Ha
It is a good deal when you consider 26 Nosler Trophy Grade 142 ABLR at $99.99/20. Nosler Trophy Grade 129 ABLR, in 6.5- 284 Norma is at $87.99/100 and only running 2750 fps compared to 2700 with the 143 ELDX in PRC. The 140 AB Trophy Grade in 6.5x55 is $52.99 but only running 2650 . Nosler 142 LRAB bullets at $85.00/00 make the 143 ELDX look like a bargain as well.
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:23 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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6.5x284 nosler long range ammo is $55/box
Cheaper than the prc
Cabelas has jacked the price on popular hornady ammo
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:56 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by Smokinyotes View Post
So he took probably the highest B.C 6.5 bullet made and compared it to a 180 gr bullet with average B.C’s and the 300 wm still has slightly more energy. He should have compared the 6.5 PRC to a 300wm loaded with a 215 Berger travelling at 2950 FPS
You seem to have completely missed the point of this thread. James Brion made it clear why they chose the 6.5PRC for the True Magnum Rifle, over the 300 Win mag and 6.5 CM, for their clubs rifle which is made by Cooper Rifles. Bullet selection had nothing to do with it as they only use Factory ammunition for their comparison. As he said the 6.5 Cm was not quite enough cartridge for their intended use of their rifle. The 300 Win mag had considerable more Recoil than desired for the Light Hunting Rifle and wasted energy for the Hornady ELD-X Bullets at the maximum ranges that they shoot, which he explained.

I did find ammunition made by Copper Creek Cartridge Co. with the 212 ELD- in 300 Win Mag at 2830 fps and the 143 ELDX, in 6.5PRC at 3000 fps. Hornady lists Minimum IV of 1800 fps for the ELDX bullets . These bullets have an SD of .319 and .293 respectively making them both suitable for Large Game in North America. Using the industry standard method of SD X IV makes the 212 grain 300 Win Mag suitable to 805 yards with 1800 fps IV and the 143 ELDX CCCC 6.5 PRC good to 855 yards on Large North American Game. In other words all the extra energy at 1800 fps, in the 300 Win mag Load, would have been wasted on Terra Firma at the expense of ones shoulder.

The other 6.5's like the 6.5x55, 6.5x47L 6.5 Grendel were not chosen as they are not quite up to the 6.5 CM with factory ammunition. The 6.5-284 Norma is running just behind but ammo is more expensive and the Longer Coal and Rebated rim make it a less desirable design as the 6.5 PRC will fit in The Win and similar Short Action rifles although not sure if this is a consideration in the Cooper. At Cabela's I could only find a Nosler Trophy Grade 130 AB load for the 264 Win and it only runs 3100 fps as per their specs. It and the 26 Nosler were likely not considered as both cartridges are notoriously overbore and overkill like the other Magnums.
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  #41  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
It's safe to say that nobody makes a factory 6.4x284.
Savage and Cooper both sell 6.5x284 rifles
Ruger was making hem as well, last I checked
Cat
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:27 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by 41thunder View Post
6.5x284 nosler long range ammo is $55/box
Cheaper than the prc
Cabelas has jacked the price on popular hornady ammo
I quoted $87.99/100 which should have been /box for Nosler Trophy Grade 129 ABLR ammunition. This is the only LRAB load shown for the 6.5-284 NORMA and here is the link to Cabela's . https://www.cabelas.ca/product/31120...ade-ammunition
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  #43  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:50 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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That's alot of money for factory ammunition.

Funny that UFA sells 300 Win Mag ammo at $44 a box,,, 270, 308, 30/06 at $32 to $36,,, each person will choose what works with in their budget.

Reloading keeps the costs in check. Ha
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:55 PM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
I quoted $87.99/100 which should have been /box for Nosler Trophy Grade 129 ABLR ammunition. This is the only LRAB load shown for the 6.5-284 NORMA and here is the link to Cabela's . https://www.cabelas.ca/product/31120...ade-ammunition
Yep. Instore the other day it was $54.99 I was surprised and had to double check
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2018, 06:02 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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Iclund- ya I really don’t think I missed the point. I really don’t care about recoil or if they were trying to produce a lighter rifle with similar energy with reduced recoil. Bottom line is you don’t take the best highest bc bullet and compare it to another cartridge using a very low bc bullet. If they wanted to compare factory ammo why wasn’t Hornady Precision hunter ammo used in the 300wm with 200 or 212 gr ELDX bullets or something with similar b.c’s.
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  #46  
Old 12-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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That 215 gr Berger 300wm load...buy it off the shelf? Factory twist ok? Oal ok?

Energy would be the last thing considered lol...those guys know.

And the threat of permanent ban on starting a 6.5 thread despite the childish behaviour allowed to play out here is something else. Barely hangin in there for the ee but cgn will work too.

Just read Next Level Hunter put his 6.5 cm browning in hands of a friend for an 804 yrd drt whitetail with 143 eldx, no bullet to be found exit quartering away. But .293 sd at about 1650 fps impact velocity on a whitetail buck is no match. An elk wouldn’t have taken that either. But don’t listen here, because it’s just flat out happening anywhere you wanna look. Prc adds 250 yrds to the CM.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 12-13-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2018, 09:56 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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864 ft/lbs that whitetail almost took from that 804 yrd CM, it couldn’t have taken it all as there was an exit. Maybe it took 700 ft/lbs? Should have used an eld-m instead imo.😉

Andrew, can you explain to me how important energy is again?

Impact velocity, sd, construction....did that, energy was present but that’s not what does the heavy lifting.
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:47 PM
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Gunwerks did a podcast on the 6.5PRC, and outlined the benefits of the cartridge. In a nut shell Hornady built it right the first time as a standardized cartridge. Guys are hammering elk, deer, bear etc with it south of the border. Its a hammer.
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
That 215 gr Berger 300wm load...buy it off the shelf? Factory twist ok? Oal ok?

Energy would be the last thing considered lol...those guys know.

And the threat of permanent ban on starting a 6.5 thread despite the childish behaviour allowed to play out here is something else. Barely hangin in there for the ee but cgn will work too.

Just read Next Level Hunter put his 6.5 cm browning in hands of a friend for an 804 yrd drt whitetail with 143 eldx, no bullet to be found exit quartering away. But .293 sd at about 1650 fps impact velocity on a whitetail buck is no match. An elk wouldn’t have taken that either. But don’t listen here, because it’s just flat out happening anywhere you wanna look. Prc adds 250 yrds to the CM.
Then why not skip the prc and go to a 26 nosler or 6.5x300 wby?
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  #50  
Old 12-14-2018, 05:27 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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If I ever find my self in that same situation, I'll make sure that I follow that hunting idea to a T.

804 yards, 1/4 angle to, 6.5 fore sure,,, and 143gr boolitz,,, DRT to 1 white tail. Ha


Thanks for sharing SC.

I kinda knew that only 1 unit on the planet could pull that shot off.

PS: Special Note to my self... Sell the guns I have and buy the 6.5,,, then find a white tail at 804 yards. Ha,,, no need to buy more than 1 bullet since its a waist of funds.

Makes sense to to me,,, now let's see,,, was the word I'm looking for "Cartridge" or was it "Cartrage",,, dam English language along with buto-correct guts my every trim. LOL
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  #51  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:24 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by 41thunder View Post
Then why not skip the prc and go to a 26 nosler or 6.5x300 wby?
I have no interest in the extra recoil. I won’t be shooting at game that far so won’t live with recoil and muzzle blast just because. Sold my 270wsm long range mountain build. But for those who want a 1000+ yard rig the prc would be a great choice.
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  #52  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:58 AM
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  #53  
Old 12-14-2018, 08:02 AM
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Doesn't Applied Ballistics make a 215 Berger factory load? These guys are in the states so it is available for comparisons. But They are probably sponsored by Hornady and Cooper. So they got to make their products look good. Pays the bills. As far as the 6.5 kills as good as a 300 Win Mag, I don't know. I've never shot anything far enough with my 6.5 to make a fair comparison. I do however have a lot of respect for BROZ over on LRH and long range only. With all the data he has collected over the years with the 215 Berger on elk it is impressive. 100's of elk that he has data on terminal results of bullets and various calibers. In his opinion the 30 cal kills WAY better than a 7 or 6.5. With his experience on that many animals I am not one to argue about SD ft-lb Blah blah. He helped me spec my reamer when I built my 300 Win Mag and wow does it perform. You guys should read a few of his threads over on those sites.
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  #54  
Old 12-14-2018, 08:05 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
If I ever find my self in that same situation, I'll make sure that I follow that hunting idea to a T.

804 yards, 1/4 angle to, 6.5 fore sure,,, and 143gr boolitz,,, DRT to 1 white tail. Ha


Thanks for sharing SC.

I kinda knew that only 1 unit on the planet could pull that shot off.

PS: Special Note to my self... Sell the guns I have and buy the 6.5,,, then find a white tail at 804 yards. Ha,,, no need to buy more than 1 bullet since its a waist of funds.

Makes sense to to me,,, now let's see,,, was the word I'm looking for "Cartridge" or was it "Cartrage",,, dam English language along with buto-correct guts my every trim. LOL
Lol, many days I think I’d like try whatever it is you take. For if it’s nothing then might a vacation in your mind for day might be a riot, or permanently damaging.😉👍
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  #55  
Old 12-14-2018, 08:17 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
If I ever find my self in that same situation, I'll make sure that I follow that hunting idea to a T.

804 yards, 1/4 angle to, 6.5 fore sure,,, and 143gr boolitz,,, DRT to 1 white tail. Ha


Thanks for sharing SC.

I kinda knew that only 1 unit on the planet could pull that shot off.

PS: Special Note to my self... Sell the guns I have and buy the 6.5,,, then find a white tail at 804 yards. Ha,,, no need to buy more than 1 bullet since its a waist of funds.

Makes sense to to me,,, now let's see,,, was the word I'm looking for "Cartridge" or was it "Cartrage",,, dam English language along with buto-correct guts my every trim. LOL
Just 2 things,

It seems you get offended when someone posts information about a 6.5, and it seems more specifically the Creedmoor.

Can you give an example of when a 6.5 Creedmoor did not perform as intended? Also you always post how you should get rid of your guns and by a Creedmoor, can you quote where anyone has suggested this rediculous claim?

I understand you love your 308, and that’s fine, but it’s commrnts like these, based on nothing, that start the arguments.

In all the threads it’s the same thing, the same rediculous statements bringing the discussion out of context, and turning it into a hot mess. Can’t you just accept the facts? Or perhaps post up some facts to prove the op wrong? It’s always the guy who brings up the 6.5’s fault for bringing up the subject right?

Food for thought.
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  #56  
Old 12-14-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
864 ft/lbs that whitetail almost took from that 804 yrd CM, it couldn’t have taken it all as there was an exit. Maybe it took 700 ft/lbs? Should have used an eld-m instead imo.😉

Andrew, can you explain to me how important energy is again?

Impact velocity, sd, construction....did that, energy was present but that’s not what does the heavy lifting.
I have been avoiding commenting as it is a waste of my time. Without energy you don’t have movement nor penetration so no idea what point you are making. You have no idea what physics even means if you think energy doesn’t matter yet you think you understand everything. If you don’t want to listen you cannot be taught as you already “know” everything. You are accusing people of taking meds or drugs and all to prove a point of what? Personal insults make your point more? You love your 6.5 and don’t like to look at all the math so just shoot it and enjoy it. Stop trying to make everyone else believe what you do. I have never once said I don’t like the 6.5 nor have I said it wouldn’t kill. I just pointed out your fatal flaws in your math in your ridiculous comparison threads. I am still trying to determine why the 6.5 supporters feel they need to argue to justify shooting one. If it works for you, shoot it and enjoy! Just stop calling everyone else down for enjoying their favourite round.
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  #57  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
If I ever find my self in that same situation, I'll make sure that I follow that hunting idea to a T.

804 yards, 1/4 angle to, 6.5 fore sure,,, and 143gr boolitz,,, DRT to 1 white tail. Ha


Thanks for sharing SC.

I kinda knew that only 1 unit on the planet could pull that shot off.

PS: Special Note to my self... Sell the guns I have and buy the 6.5,,, then find a white tail at 804 yards. Ha,,, no need to buy more than 1 bullet since its a waist of funds.

Makes sense to to me,,, now let's see,,, was the word I'm looking for "Cartridge" or was it "Cartrage",,, dam English language along with buto-correct guts my every trim. LOL
Technology that corrects to an incorrect non- word....that's useful.
I'm surprised you can find enough open water to long line this time of year.

Either way, bit strange, but mildly entertaining at times.
Thanks
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  #58  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:54 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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I have been avoiding commenting as it is a waste of my time. Without energy you don’t have movement nor penetration so no idea what point you are making. You have no idea what physics even means if you think energy doesn’t matter yet you think you understand everything. If you don’t want to listen you cannot be taught as you already “know” everything. You are accusing people of taking meds or drugs and all to prove a point of what? Personal insults make your point more? You love your 6.5 and don’t like to look at all the math so just shoot it and enjoy it. Stop trying to make everyone else believe what you do. I have never once said I don’t like the 6.5 nor have I said it wouldn’t kill. I just pointed out your fatal flaws in your math in your ridiculous comparison threads. I am still trying to determine why the 6.5 supporters feel they need to argue to justify shooting one. If it works for you, shoot it and enjoy! Just stop calling everyone else down for enjoying their favourite round.
Just for the record I read Don’s posts differently than suggested, maybe I have it wrong?, I see his posts as bring levity and humour to the subject, not insulting or negative. So my response is based around that...and in no way meant as an insult to Don. He knows his stuff and adds his personality to this place. So Don if you took my reply as negative I’ll apologize now as certainly not meant that way at all. I applaud your creativity and imagination.👍

Edit add. Sarcasm and unusual sense of humour’s are not easily read. Pretty sure Don and I are on solid ground. But happy to be shown otherwise and face music.

Andrew, we never got to finish. I see your points however do you see mine? Yours being that the energy is there and driving...no argument. Mine being...how important is it a factor for comparing cartridges and bullets to one another for hunting? Are you saying it is? I am saying it’s not. How do you quantify the lottery of energy figure on the terminal end vs the constant of energy on the shooter end?

I have a good example above. What did the work there in terms of useful info to use for comparing cartridges and bullets?

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 12-14-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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  #59  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:09 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Thx, no harm done, I'm here for a good time,,, not a long time. Ha.

I'm not the book smart dude, and English is definitely not my first language,,, but hey,,, why not give it a try. Ha

All good as I wounder off track, find my self lost, and forward to not discovering what's been lost before its found.

And no,,, I'm not found of 308's since its only 1 of many,,, the trick is to enjoy them all,,, of course I like the 7mm's more,,, but I don't have any of them at the moment.

Ho Hummmmm,,, lifes to short at times. LOL
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  #60  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:14 AM
41thunder 41thunder is offline
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Doesn't Applied Ballistics make a 215 Berger factory load? These guys are in the states so it is available for comparisons. But They are probably sponsored by Hornady and Cooper. So they got to make their products look good. Pays the bills. As far as the 6.5 kills as good as a 300 Win Mag, I don't know. I've never shot anything far enough with my 6.5 to make a fair comparison. I do however have a lot of respect for BROZ over on LRH and long range only. With all the data he has collected over the years with the 215 Berger on elk it is impressive. 100's of elk that he has data on terminal results of bullets and various calibers. In his opinion the 30 cal kills WAY better than a 7 or 6.5. With his experience on that many animals I am not one to argue about SD ft-lb Blah blah. He helped me spec my reamer when I built my 300 Win Mag and wow does it perform. You guys should read a few of his threads over on those sites.
Ya he has an incredible amount of knowledge regarding long range hunting. Not just long range shooting. They test the theoretical against actual. 100’s of actual results vs a handful of selected results.. hmm what would you listen to?
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