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  #121  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by brendan's dad View Post
Unfortunately new laws and regulations are created due a change society and the actions or inaction associated to. Some new laws include theft of telecommunication, home invasion, terrorism, and so on. These are new "crimes" and were created because of change in criminal behavior.

In a not too distance past if a dog showed any aggression towards a person and specifically a child, the owner would deal with situation and put the dog down. Human life was much more valued than a dogs life. But there has been a change in that line of thinking in society in general. It has gone so far the other way that if you were seen in the rural area taking the dog to the back field and shooting it, there would be police called and a cry for justice for the dog.

I compare this breed to a mentally ill person. 95% time they are no danger to anyone else. But the first training you receive in dealing with mental health patience is that they are unpredictable and can be prone to violence without reason, rational, or history.

I think that pitbulls and such, have established enough of a documented history that because of the inaction of some owners, unfortunately all owners of this breed should be subject to regulations and mandatory training.
There really is no reason for the breed other than the cool factor, and I would have to wonder about the character of a person that needs a pit bull. There are so many dogs breeds out there that will tickle your fancy if you want a dog for a legitimate reason or just companionship. Just have a look at the typical pit bull owner, most are not much smarter than their dogs.
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  #122  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
X2, a dog is a mere reflection of his/her owner.
Only if the owner contributed DNA to his dog, and he really shouldn't be doing that either, pretty sure there are laws against that sort of behavior.

Dogs are actually a genetic reflection of thousands of years of selective breeding for traits. But if you want to have a dog that is your reflection, go right ahead, just maybe don't post the video on facebook...
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  #123  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
When someone's eye color causes grizzly death or rogue green eyes eats a baby that may be an option yep.
Oversimplification. People who are saying the breed has nothing to do with it are not entirely correct. Terriers in general are active, strong willed, easily excitable, slow to settle, and typically have a very high prey drive. Combine these attributes in a 70 or 80lb dog, and you had better know what you're doing. That's not to say they can't make great, loving and affectionate pets, but implying that a pitbull terrier is no different than a Labrabor Retriever, which is no different than a shih-tzu is just wrong.
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  #124  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:46 AM
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When I got home owners insurance for my new place, They asked if I own a dog.

I replied yes, a Yorkie, he is a ferocious guard dog.

I also asked if i would get a discount if I had an actual big guards dog. I was surprised to learn that if you owned a Pitbull, Rotty, German Shepard, Doberman that they would not continue with insurance, or at least pay a MUCH higher premium.

I personally dont discriminate against any dogs, some of the sweetest dogs I know are pitbulls, and a super sweet rotty. yet I have met a owner with a Lab cross that wanted to attack anything it saw.

Unfortunately the kind of people who generally want a pitbull or similar, are stereotypically not great people or owners of dogs, and shouldn't own a hamster let alone a very powerful animal.
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  #125  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by brendan's dad View Post
Unfortunately new laws and regulations are created due a change society and the actions or inaction associated to. Some new laws include theft of telecommunication, home invasion, terrorism, and so on. These are new "crimes" and were created because of change in criminal behavior.

In a not too distance past if a dog showed any aggression towards a person and specifically a child, the owner would deal with situation and put the dog down. Human life was much more valued than a dogs life. But there has been a change in that line of thinking in society in general. It has gone so far the other way that if you were seen in the rural area taking the dog to the back field and shooting it, there would be police called and a cry for justice for the dog.

I compare this breed to a mentally ill person. 95% time they are no danger to anyone else. But the first training you receive in dealing with mental health patience is that they are unpredictable and can be prone to violence without reason, rational, or history.

I think that pitbulls and such, have established enough of a documented history that because of the inaction of some owners, unfortunately all owners of this breed should be subject to regulations and mandatory training.
I would respectfully suggest you do some research onto the spectrum of mental illness before comparing people with mental illness to pitbulls or any animal for that matter.
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  #126  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mattthegorby View Post
I would respectfully suggest you do some research onto the spectrum of mental illness before comparing people with mental illness to pitbulls or any animal for that matter.
Relax, I have 21 years experience and training in dealing with mental health.
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  #127  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:09 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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A few years back a wise old guy that delivered fuel to my bulk tank on farm said " You can always tell the personality of the owners by their dog" people with either a kind scotch collie or a aggressive pit bull.
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  #128  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
A few years back a wise old guy that delivered fuel to my bulk tank on farm said " You can always tell the personality of the owners by their dog" people with either a kind scotch collie or a aggressive pit bull.
What about people with an aggressive scotch collie or a kind pit bull? I don’t understand what you’re getting at, is it the temperament of the dog or the breed?
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  #129  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:23 AM
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Back in the 70's when Dobies were the bad dogs the story was they were genetically modified by Nazi's to kill.
During the 80's German Shepherds were the problem then in the 90's the various breeds of the Pits and Mastiffs became the cool dogs to own and their numbers soared.
A once uncommon breed is now quite common and like people some are docile and others psychopathic, painting the whole breed as bad and need to be banned isn't the right way to go.
I've known several Pits some were aggressive and others were very passive just like other breeds.

This is Keisha she makes Pitbulls look bad 11 years old totally nonaggressive towards humans hates coyotes and put a bear on the run that wandered in the acreage.
Hiding from thunder


I would never own a pit or any kind of aggressive breed however I can't paint all pits as bad.
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  #130  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:38 AM
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nvm

round n round we go
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....

Last edited by Ken07AOVette; 09-18-2018 at 09:44 AM.
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  #131  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
When someone's eye color causes grizzly death or rogue green eyes eats a baby that may be an option yep.
True.... But. Cars ,drugs, and booze do cause most of the deaths. Are we banning them?
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  #132  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by vcmm View Post
True.... But. Cars ,drugs, and booze do cause most of the deaths. Are we banning them?
lol (my last response that I deleted started with 'all due respect to VCMM...'

you are loving this aren't you

I would love to see drugs and booze banned. Or at least real jail time for crimes involving them. Trouble is all the hard done by people need their fix and whine bitch and cry so it will never stop being taxed or sold.


I just got off the notsomerry-go-round

A car has only killed someone if something mechanically failed (ie pinto) or the driver did something to cause it. A car has no brain. They don't snap and eat babies.

Drugs have never killed anyone that didn't put it in their body. Or have someone else do it to them. A drug has no brain. It doesn't snap and eat babies.

Booze has never killed anyone without ingestion. Booze has no brain. It doesn't snap and eat babies.

Pitbulls kill all the time. Pitbulls have an on/off switch where there should be a brain. When it snaps it will kill whatever is in front of it's teeth if the thing in front of it's teeth does not have a better defense mechanism.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #133  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:23 AM
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good boy says good morning

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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #134  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:30 AM
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If you were to substitute Black gun for pit bull the conversation would be the same.....

You people are so busy fighting you forget what the real problem is/was.
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  #135  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter View Post
If you were to substitute Black gun for pit bull the conversation would be the same.....

You people are so busy fighting you forget what the real problem is/was.
you can't breed a black gun to shoot random people without someone pulling the trigger
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #136  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:33 AM
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Default A dog behaviorist with over 25 years of canine experience.

My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the ’70s they blamed Dobermans, in the ’80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the ’90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the Pit Bull, when are they going to blame the humans?
Cesar Millan

I’m here to tell you, though, that a pit bull is no more likely to unpredictably attack than any other breed. That’s a fact. To say that a pit is a natural-born killer is nothing more than stereotyping.

https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-mill...love-pit-bulls
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  #137  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
good boy says good morning

nice pic looks very laid back
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  #138  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bat119 View Post
My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the ’70s they blamed Dobermans, in the ’80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the ’90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the Pit Bull, when are they going to blame the humans?
Cesar Millan

I’m here to tell you, though, that a pit bull is no more likely to unpredictably attack than any other breed. That’s a fact. To say that a pit is a natural-born killer is nothing more than stereotyping.

https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-mill...love-pit-bulls
And that is how Cesar sells books and tv deals. Many disagree with him, saying his televised antics are just that, fluff for media sales.

Uhoh- forgot about this
'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan sued in pit bull attack. Cesar Millan, the star of television's "The Dog Whisperer," is being sued by a woman who claims she was attacked by a vicious pit bull that had been prematurely released by Millan's dog training center.Feb 4, 2015

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...204-story.html

Cesar Millan, the star of television's "The Dog Whisperer," is being sued by a woman who claims she was attacked by a vicious pit bull that had been prematurely released by Millan's dog training center.

The woman, a critical care nurse in Florida, claims she suffered "disfiguring open wounds, deep muscle and tendon lacerations" and bone fractures in the Sept. 23, 2014, attack, just six days after the dog had been released by Millan's Dog Psychology Center.

Attorneys for Alison Bitney said in the complaint that she permanently lost feeling and function in her left hand after the attack at the dog owner's home in Santa Clarita. She is seeking punitive damages.


and

Dog whisperer Cesar Millan faces probe over animal cruelty allegations
https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/enter...eat/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDK71 View Post
nice pic looks very laid back
Doesn't he? I just copied the pic, to be honest. I haven't had a hound for many years.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....

Last edited by Ken07AOVette; 09-18-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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  #139  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:59 AM
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Read the Caesar article. Comments below it was mainly all desperate pleas for help controlling their pitbull. A guy with 25 years experience with aggressive dogs and the average dog owner are hardly comparable.
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  #140  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:01 AM
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I added a couple more.

She was attacked by a vicious pitbull.

Not my words, hers.

Cesar carries as much weight as Judge Judy
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #141  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
lol (my last response that I deleted started with 'all due respect to VCMM...'

you are loving this aren't you

I would love to see drugs and booze banned. Or at least real jail time for crimes involving them. Trouble is all the hard done by people need their fix and whine bitch and cry so it will never stop being taxed or sold.


I just got off the notsomerry-go-round

A car has only killed someone if something mechanically failed (ie pinto) or the driver did something to cause it. A car has no brain. They don't snap and eat babies.

Drugs have never killed anyone that didn't put it in their body. Or have someone else do it to them. A drug has no brain. It doesn't snap and eat babies.

Booze has never killed anyone without ingestion. Booze has no brain. It doesn't snap and eat babies.

Pitbulls kill all the time. Pitbulls have an on/off switch where there should be a brain. When it snaps it will kill whatever is in front of it's teeth if the thing in front of it's teeth does not have a better defense mechanism.
And neither does anyone who makes the "well while we're at it, why don't we ban butter knives, cars, etc. etc."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119 View Post
My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the ’70s they blamed Dobermans, in the ’80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the ’90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the Pit Bull, when are they going to blame the humans?
Cesar Millan

I’m here to tell you, though, that a pit bull is no more likely to unpredictably attack than any other breed. That’s a fact. To say that a pit is a natural-born killer is nothing more than stereotyping.

https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-mill...love-pit-bulls
I have an extremely difficult time believing that a golden retriever and a pit bull are equally likely to unpredictably attack. Even if what you're saying is unequivocally true, the damage of an unpredictable attack by a pit bull (which seems to happen on a fairly regular basis) is a hell of a lot more serious than if a (supposedly just as likely to attack) cocker spaniel unpredictably attacks.
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  #142  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pinelakeperch View Post
And neither does anyone who makes the "well while we're at it, why don't we ban butter knives, cars, etc. etc."



I have an extremely difficult time believing that a golden retriever and a pit bull are equally likely to unpredictably attack. Even if what you're saying is unequivocally true, the damage of an unpredictable attack by a pit bull (which seems to happen on a fairly regular basis) is a hell of a lot more serious than if a (supposedly just as likely to attack) cocker spaniel unpredictably attacks.
Just had to say I admire your fishcount. Very cool that you are still doing that.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #143  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
How many hair splitting statistical arguments by apologists will it take to change the genetically bred predisposition of various similar breeds so that they stop viciously killing humans? Never mind. It's the owner, not the dog. I get it.

At least the little girl wasn't killed, too bad the owner was killed by her own dog.
This needs to be reread.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #144  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Just had to say I admire your fishcount. Very cool that you are still doing that.
With the embarrassingly low amount of times I've gotten out in the past two seasons, I should probably retire it. Much different than the 350+ fish and 20+ outing seasons of the past
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  #145  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pinelakeperch View Post
With the embarrassingly low amount of times I've gotten out in the past two seasons, I should probably retire it. Much different than the 350+ fish and 20+ outing seasons of the past
It was the same on the ocean. We fought for every fish we brought home. Fish 2 weeks to bring home 7 salmon? Ridiculous.

Can't wait to go back and get even.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #146  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:55 AM
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A lot of talk about dog bites and attacks, and statistics are thrown out regarding dog bites and that other breeds bite more then pitbulls. That has more to do with amount of pitbulls in relation to other breeds.

Any dog can bite, some dogs can kill and some kill more then others. In the states, 6% of the dogs are pitbulls. combined with Rottweilers that are a distant second from pitbulls they combine for 74% of the human fatalities caused by dogs.

Pretty alarming percentage if you ask me.

I have never owned one but my family has a Rottweiler and she is a sweetheart. I agreed its not always the dog but usually the breeder. In my opinion it only needs to be the dog once and that is to many.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:00 PM
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from another site

I had a pitbull for 13 years. Have you? Never hurt a fly and was the worst watchdog ever. It was the greatest dog I ever had. Many people including veterinarians, dog handlers, and others all agreed at how great he was.
I had people that didn't even like dogs of any kind like him. Still miss that guy. The owners are almost always the idiots.




That seems to be the consensus (no matter which side you're on)
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #148  
Old 09-18-2018, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
from another site

I had a pitbull for 13 years. Have you? Never hurt a fly and was the worst watchdog ever. It was the greatest dog I ever had. Many people including veterinarians, dog handlers, and others all agreed at how great he was.
I had people that didn't even like dogs of any kind like him. Still miss that guy. The owners are almost always the idiots.




That seems to be the consensus (no matter which side you're on)
I will side with statistics over opinion.

What I would like to see is a statistic of human deaths by pitbulls with "good" owners vs. "bad" owners. cant see that happening unfortunately. Probably to hard quantify
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  #149  
Old 09-18-2018, 12:50 PM
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I have nothing against pit bulls and I do agree that it is the owner to a certain extent. But if that same "bad" owner owns another breed of dog. Their dog is less likely to injure someone or something...why?.....because its not a pit bull!!

Drunk driving is the sole responsibility of the driver...no question. But there is a difference between a drunk guy walking over to his car vs that same drunk guy walking over to his pedal bike.

I also don't understand why someone would want to own a pit bull?

This past summer at Pets in the Park at Hawrelak. A guy had a pit bull, beautiful dog. He wasn't muzzled, under control, no reason to be alarmed. Obviously a well trained dog and a "good" owner.

As he and his dog walked through the crowd of hundreds of people with hundreds of dogs he carved out an instant path. Everyone split, letting him walk through. It was blatantly obvious that most people were intimated by the dog and as a result, the owner. Is this the only logical reason someone would want to own a pit bill? To intimidate, show off, intentionally cause stress to others?...I don't know.
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  #150  
Old 09-18-2018, 12:55 PM
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Quebec abandons plans for pit bull ban, citing lack of science to back breed-specific laws

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ific-laws.html

Although I literally have no dog in this fight I find the mob mentality strikingly similar to the ban the handgun crowds "who needs a dangerous breed" in both cases I would vote for responsible ownership than an ineffective ban.
When has banning anything worked? it's just a politician's card for gullible voters.

"Hey buddy wanna buy some meth a handgun or a Pit bull"
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