Bighorn Backcountry New Proposal

[decker]

They announced today consultations are open for the BigHorn Backcountry there is a joke of a survey but take time to let them know how we feelhttps://talkaep.alberta.ca/bighorn-country

[Joe Black]

this is bad. the only thing that will stop this is if the NDP cant push it through before the election.

[JDK71]

I have a funny feeling it is going to happen no matter what the only group that will get anything out of this is the FN more parks to hunt very sad

[crazy_davey]

Oh it’s going to happen...

[Albertadiver]

It was a done deal a year ago, they just have to pretend to listen to interest groups for a little while longer.

[decker]

So I thought I filled out the survey but actually didn't as soon as you hit next on the last of the questions it erases all comments and kicks you back to the beginning. You have to hit save, kind of sneaky on there part I think.

[FinnDawg]

Why does it seem most are against this? I’ve seen people complaining about it but not backing up why? I’m not for or against at the moment as I’m still gathering and processing the info.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

Why does it seem most are against this? I’ve seen people complaining about it but not backing up why? I’m not for or against at the moment as I’m still gathering and processing the info.

I think it has a lot to do with the new park proposals and the way the government handled castle. While I’m all for a balance being struck between recreational access and wilderness sanctity and sustainibility the current government doesn’t seem to think the two can go hand and hand and tends to favour the latter over the former... although it’s ironic that making these new parks tends to do the opposite. Either way, most people are wary to lose more access to hunting and recreational opportunities(atv and ohv use, camping...) so a huge change like this that would vastly impact an individuals ability to pursue these activities is not always welcome or necessary. Short answer, does there probably need to be a change with how our public lands are managed, maybe, but is the creation of 4 new provincial parks and a couple PRA where these activities will likely be banned the answer, definitely not.

[FinnDawg]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

I think it has a lot to do with the new park proposals and the way the government handled castle. While I’m all for a balance being struck between recreational access and wilderness sanctity and sustainibility the current government doesn’t seem to think the two can go hand and hand and tends to favour the latter over the former... although it’s ironic that making these new parks tends to do the opposite. Either way, most people are wary to lose more access to hunting and recreational opportunities(atv and ohv use, camping...) so a huge change like this that would vastly impact an individuals ability to pursue these activities is not always welcome or necessary. Short answer, does there probably need to be a change with how our public lands are managed, maybe, but is the creation of 4 new provincial parks and a couple PRA where these activities will likely be banned the answer, definitely not.

Great response I appreciate it. It’s definitely a lot to think about, as I believe there is definitely something that needs to be done about public land management, especially in the sense that these lands need to be protected. It’s definitely a double edge sword because at what cost? It has raised a lot of questions in my mind for sure.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

Great response I appreciate it. It’s definitely a lot to think about, as I believe there is definitely something that needs to be done about public land management, especially in the sense that these lands need to be protected. It’s definitely a double edge sword because at what cost? It has raised a lot of questions in my mind for sure.

Everything is nuanced, especially managing land for multiple and often conflicting uses, only thing I’m certain of is that this ain’t the way to go about it.

[outdoorsman12b]

Does anyone know the actual impact this will have to hunters in the area? Will I still be able to continue my sheep hunting?

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by outdoorsman12b

Does anyone know the actual impact this will have to hunters in the area? Will I still be able to continue my sheep hunting?

Not if your area is in the provincial parks or recreational areas. I’d assume you will still be able to hunt in the wild land provincial park.

[Peebles]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

. Either way, most people are wary to lose more access to hunting and recreational opportunities(atv and ohv use, camping...) so a huge change like this that would vastly impact an individuals ability to pursue these activities is not always welcome or necessary. Short answer, does there probably need to be a change with how our public lands are managed, maybe, but is the creation of 4 new provincial parks and a couple PRA where these activities will likely be banned the answer, definitely not.

Disingenuous response! The majority of the land in the proposed park system is allocated to a Wildland park wherein hunting is permitted. OHVs are also permitted on designated trails.

I encourage anyone who actually wants to know to read the government's proposal instead of getting incorrect piecemeal advice on the matter through this forum. That takes some time, but it's the best way to understand how this matches with your own personal values.

A vocal segment of the population considers unfettered OHV access the only important factor in land conservation, and listening to them will give a distorted view of the purpose of this proposed park system. The population boom in Alberta has made the current usage unsustainable, and anti-conservationists are just choosing another way to make the land inaccessible once it is destroyed by overtraffic.

[dgrimard]

So this summer was the first time me and the wife were back into the Cline river area for about 4 or 5 years. The amount of people that now use Bighorn region has exploded, sure it was Aug long but we used to go there all summer 2 to 3 backpacking trips a year and have never seen so many people.
Pushing people into smaller and smaller areas is not the way to manage lands I personally think.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by dgrimard

So this summer was the first time me and the wife were back into the Cline river area for about 4 or 5 years. The amount of people that now use Bighorn region has exploded, sure it was Aug long but we used to go there all summer 2 to 3 backpacking trips a year and have never seen so many people.
Pushing people into smaller and smaller areas is not the way to manage lands I personally think.

It's not about managing the lands any more but more about managing the influx of people.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by Peebles

Disingenuous response! The majority of the land in the proposed park system is allocated to a Wildland park wherein hunting is permitted. OHVs are also permitted on designated trails.

I encourage anyone who actually wants to know to read the government's proposal instead of getting incorrect piecemeal advice on the matter through this forum. That takes some time, but it's the best way to understand how this matches with your own personal values.

A vocal segment of the population considers unfettered OHV access the only important factor in land conservation, and listening to them will give a distorted view of the purpose of this proposed park system. The population boom in Alberta has made the current usage unsustainable, and anti-conservationists are just choosing another way to make the land inaccessible once it is destroyed by overtraffic.

I didnt mention the wild land park as the problem, I actually am usually in favour of wildland parks, I need to know more about the location of said park before iPass further judgement. I don’t own a quad, atv, ohv, snowmobile whatever anyone wants to classify them as, I exclusively hunt on foot, but I am opposed to fracturing the outdoor community and the added provincial park where if the other prov parks are any indication,will forabud ohv use. I even stated that something needed to be done just that I didn’t think this was it. Nothing disingenuous about my response at all.

[outdoorsman12b]

So was speaking with a friend whome is a Parks officer down south. He says the access to Castle is very difficult now and hunting opporunities are not what it once was. Going through the proposal it seems like the reclass won't affect access, but I have to wonder if there is any truth to the changes down south. Does anyone have any experience?

There seems to be a lack of an organization in Alberta that looks out for our rights like the SCI.

[FinnDawg]

Originally Posted by outdoorsman12b

So was speaking with a friend whome is a Parks officer down south. He says the access to Castle is very difficult now and hunting opporunities are not what it once was.

How so?

[fatboyz]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

Not if your area is in the provincial parks or recreational areas. I’d assume you will still be able to hunt in the wild land provincial park.

When I read the briefing document for each individual site it said in the David Thompson, North Saskatchewan River and Ya Ha Tinda Parks hunting is allowed,you just need a discharge permit.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

When I read the briefing document for each individual site it said in the David Thompson, North Saskatchewan River and Ya Ha Tinda Parks hunting is allowed,you just need a discharge permit.

That’s not as bad as I thought it would be, I’d love to hear from people who have experience with the castle discharge permits for reference. Still a little worrying to me that we are at the point where instead of gaining opportunities we are consistently losing them for one reason or another.

[matt1984]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

How so?

By closing the majority of the old logging roads, so unless you have horses you have a 30 km hike to get to where you used to park your truck. Also, you can’t just set up camp now Unless you hike all your gear in. Makes it tough for a lot of guys.

[outdoorsman12b]

Originally Posted by matt1984

By closing the majority of the old logging roads, so unless you have horses you have a 30 km hike to get to where you used to park your truck. Also, you can’t just set up camp now Unless you hike all your gear in. Makes it tough for a lot of guys.

Thanks for this. I forgot you can't drive vehicles into Wildland parks and this is the exact type of impact I was looking for.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

That’s not as bad as I thought it would be, I’d love to hear from people who have experience with the castle discharge permits for reference. Still a little worrying to me that we are at the point where instead of gaining opportunities we are consistently losing them for one reason or another.

The discharge permit is really easy, download it, sign it, carry it with you at all times. Its all the other stupid little rules that come with these "parks" that make it not as user friendly. Can't site in a rifle, can't collect firewood (been doing it for years and can't anymore), can't random camp, etc. This really has nothing to do with the environment. They spend millions of dollars to create these parks when all they need to do is have designated trails, hire more officers to actually patrol and hand out higher penalties and fines. I agree the lands are being abused in parts (even castle) but closing everything off is not the way to go about this. They promised there would be designated trails that would remain open but as soon as it passed and they came out wit more rules we lost almost all the designated trails (90-95%). But i guess its just easier to keep people out.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by dshaw

The discharge permit is really easy, download it, sign it, carry it with you at all times. Its all the other stupid little rules that come with these "parks" that make it not as user friendly. Can't site in a rifle, can't collect firewood (been doing it for years and can't anymore), can't random camp, etc. This really has nothing to do with the environment. They spend millions of dollars to create these parks when all they need to do is have designated trails, hire more officers to actually patrol and hand out higher penalties and fines. I agree the lands are being abused in parts (even castle) but closing everything off is not the way to go about this. They promised there would be designated trails that would remain open but as soon as it passed and they came out wit more rules we lost almost all the designated trails (90-95%). But i guess its just easier to keep people out.

I worried about as much, thank you for your honesty!

[decker]

How I feel about this is its a complete money grab from the government. They see these area's as potential revenue that they are missing out on. These areas have been maintained for years through non profit organizations that keep the camp sites clean build out houses and do trail maintenance all done by volunteers. There is already designated trails and timing restrictions that the government cannot not monitor already.

So they want provincial campgrounds and easier access to these areas for more tourisim, this does not make any sense with what they are preaching there trying to achieve and that is too help sustain an sensitive ecological area. But is does make total sense as now they can charge money to stay in these areas.

Now you want designated backcountry camping spots, how is this going to be managed.