Car won't turn over

[briverb]

2003 ford focus manual transmission.

Take car for a long drive. Shut car off and try and start right away, full power to dash and everything but car will not turn over at all. Let car sit for about an hour turn key and it turns over and starts.

Replaced clutch, spark plugs and plugs wires as well as battery. Vehicle runs well, just has this problem of not starting right away after driving for a long drive.

Tests indicate the starter and alternator are fine.

Before I tackle the ignition coil and ignition switch has anyone had a similar problem on their vehicle? Something must be failing after getting to hot, I am thinking.

Any advice is appreciated.

[SwampDonkey]

CPS - Cam shaft Position sensor most likely.

Is is not throwing any codes? Engine light on?

[204ruger]

Has the starter been tested when it’s not starting. Might be the starter that doesn’t work when it gets hot and then when cooled down it works. If it’s not even turning over when it’s the no start situation it won’t be the ignition coil. Suspect bad starter when heated up before anything else. IMHO

[briverb]

No errors codes and check engine light is not on. Just went out and car started. Was also thinking it could be the Crankshaft Position Sensor or the Camshaft position sensor.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep digging.

[gunnargsd]

If your camshaft & crankshaft position sensors we acting, you will more likely trigger a check engine light and a code because your ECM would have lost communication with them. I'd still be looking at starter unless you have code directing you elsewhere.

[Drewski Canuck]

i do not have the schematic for the electrical, but if there is not even a "click" of the starter Solenoid, it suggests that the relay is shot, but again, I am not there to listen to what if any sound is present when you turn the key.

Relays can be a funny thing. May be mounted on the fender, or it may be in the fuse box.

I chased a grounding issue on an 03 Dodge Diesel, and ended up taking it to the dealer as it idled fine, but when driving would intermittently stall. I DID ASK if there was a ground strap and if it was checked. The strap causing all the trouble was on the transmission bell beyond the firewall to the cab, and was a woven aluminum strap with no insulation on the strap. Simply corroded and damaged, and caused trouble when the tranny and engine flexed under load.

Drewski

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Neutral safety switch?

[Parker Hale]

Originally Posted by 204ruger

Has the starter been tested when it’s not starting. Might be the starter that doesn’t work when it gets hot and then when cooled down it works. If it’s not even turning over when it’s the no start situation it won’t be the ignition coil. Suspect bad starter when heated up before anything else. IMHO

This would be my thoughts too. Over heating starter will not set off any warning lights, and once it cools down works fine. I had the same problem on a 78 Camaro, put a heat shield over the starter to protect it from the heat from the headers and never had a problem again.

[briverb]

When it does not start, there is not a clicking sound. Just a bit of a humming sound, but very very faint. Basically it either turns over and starts no problem or does not turn over at all.

[urban rednek]

The very faint humming sound is most likely the electric fuel pump out back. It comes on when the ignition is cycled to ramp up fuel pressure for the engine start.
From your description, it is more likely that either the starter relay, or the PCM output module to the starter relay is shot.
FWIW I use these if the OBD2 reader doesn't come up with anything.
Good luck.

[omega50]

In the mean time park facing downhill

[barbless]

Originally Posted by omega50

In the mean time park facing downhill

Ha ha, it being a standard would give it a try. Release park brake and see if it will start in gear. Or try the old school and tap starter with a hammer (while someone turns the key or just in the on position, of course in neutral, foot on the brake, clutch depressed, wheels blocked). The brushes might be worn and not making good contact or pull the whole thing out and do a cleanup. Brushes are cheap

[204ruger]

Test for power at starter when it won’t start. If no power maybe the neutral safety switch is out of adjustment or bad. Not all bad starters click when they don’t work. If solenoid is what’s giving grief there is no clicking.
Usually if the crank sensor or cam sensor are going bad it’ll still crank over but ignition system won’t know when to send spark.

[raab]

Check for corrosion on your battery ground and the starter solenoid. Also read the battery voltage running and off

[pikeman06]

Pull out your ignition relay and put it back in or switch it with the same relay in a different spot in your fuse box and try it. Tap.the top of the relays gently. Clean the contacts of the relays too. Bloody relays can mess with ya. Ignition or starter relay it should be called. Could very well be a solenoid issue too but worth a try. Cheap fix.

[RandyBoBandy]

Quite obvious, you haven't thrown enuff parts at it...no sense getting a professional diagnosis ...keep going

[overhere]

1 might think that if the car ran good before shutting off. Then trying to restart right away without the starter so much as clicking. but when it cools down it works fine . I would test the starter trigger wire when the no start is happening for 12 volts and if you have power there then change starter. That would be the first step. But if you like spending money I would start by putting wipers on it and possibly some new brake lights just to be sure.

[sirmike68]

Bad ground. Check to make sure both ends of the ground wire are clean and tight. You can also check for rust or crap between the engine block and the starter. Bad grounds have caught me twice and these were my issues and fixes.

[fed]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

Quite obvious, you haven't thrown enuff parts at it...no sense getting a professional diagnosis ...keep going

Haha. If you where around here I could look at it for ya. But pretty sure your not gonna haul it down here for a simple problem

[brslk]

Where are you located? If you're in the Edmonton area, I'd be willing to have a look at it.

[briverb]

The sarcastic comments are pretty funny.

I never would have thought wiper blades could fix the problem. Hahaha

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by briverb

I never would have thought wiper blades could fix the problem. Hahaha

It's the only advice they can offer.

[baticus]

I would lean towards the starter, or even the power cable running to the starter. If its near heat, it could have melted or caused cracking on the insulation, resulting in a corroded cable. Heat = higher resistance.

One of the best electrical test tools is a headlight bulb(one of the 4x6/7 rectangular ones). Put a couple of wire extensions off the back. One to the source power, and one to ground. If the light lights up, try cranking it. If the light shuts off, I would go after the cable. If it stays lit with zero cranking, I would suspect the starter.

[Attilathecanuk]

Originally Posted by sirmike68

Bad ground. Check to make sure both ends of the ground wire are clean and tight. You can also check for rust or crap between the engine block and the starter. Bad grounds have caught me twice and these were my issues and fixes.

This! If your ground is attached to the body, there may be either paint or rust under the connection, sand the point of contact and re-attach. This is a huge issue with Hyundai Santa-fe anyway and it sounds like similar issue.

[6.5swedeforelk]

So it's a manual transmission, and you changed the clutch?

Does the pedal need to be depressed to start?

Safety switch not making?

[amosfella]

I'd suggest one of the starter safety lockout switches doesn't want to work when hot.

I had that happen with my car. Won't start in park when hot out, or been run for a while unless you flip it in and out of gear a few times. Will start in neutral though.

[briverb]

Looks like it is the Engine Management Relay. Car would not turn over. I wiggled the relay a bit and pushed down. Got back in car and it started no problem. It has been starting no problem every since I did that. We'll see how it goes.

As far as the clutch being replaced, that was based on a professional diagnosis. The mechanic who diagnosed it also replaced it. He wrecked the first clutch he tried to install and had to reorder the parts and do it again. After he was done, 3rd gear then had a high pitch whistling noise when accelerating. Not even going to get into it on that one. This is why I prefer to fix things myself if I can.

The spark plugs, wires and battery were all in need of being replaced. Battery did test bad and after I replaced the plugs and wires the engine runs beauty.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Lots of knowledgable people here.

And keep the sarcastic comments comin'. It adds good humor.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by briverb

And keep the sarcastic comments comin'. It adds good humor.

OK, I'll add, if you car won't turn over call KEN07, he'll turn it over
Glad you found the problem

[pikeman06]

Do I get a prize? Relays in the early 2000 and late 1990 2500 chevies and gmc trucks cause a lot of grief. I know guys that have replaced starters, batteries, cables, started getting into the ignition swith and the steering column over those silly things. Very cold weather can affect them too. Makes you think you aren't getting power but you got plenty it just doesn't go to the solenoid. Sometimes two batteries will trip it so that really messes with your head. Works one day doesn't the next. RELAY.

[barbless]

You bet pikeman06. Congratulations I will send you a link to collect your prize. Just forward the needed information for which account you would like your winnings deposited. Thanks for your participation. Good job you. Wait to pick it out