O&G and earthquakes? No fracking way!

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Luxor

Many cases in N America have seen pollutants in the local water systems.
Including a case just outside Calgary where the water will ignite into flame.
And here in Canada companies are not required to report the chemicals used to extract the oil. This weak legislation is becoming increasingly a concerning matter.
Go ask your company higher ups if they'll tell you????

You can get MSDS sheets on everything pumped down a well. Most you can eat, what comes up from the ground "naturally occurring " is the problem and most is refined and injected back into formation. The exemption of course is when GOD frac's and a Volcano explodes or a mountain range is formed.
Next time your in the mountains, look at some of the rock formations, you will see the same zones that oil industry is Fraccing, except this formation has been pushed to the surface….. from God fraccing…….. Radiation and all……. true story.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

You can get MSDS sheets on everything pumped down a well. Most you can eat, what comes up from the ground "naturally occurring " is the problem and most is refined and injected back into formation. The exemption of course is when GOD frac's and a Volcano explodes or a mountain range is formed.
Next time your in the mountains, look at some of the rock formations, you will see the same zones that oil industry is Fraccing, except this formation has been pushed to the surface….. from God fraccing…….. Radiation and all……. true story.

Im not doubting your knowledge.
Im only doubting whether or not its a viable activity to pursue.
Some say it isnt some say it is.
All I know is that the concerns are becoming more pronounced.
Could be just another scare tactic or maybe not????

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Luxor

Methane among others.
There is case in AB against Encana corp about this matter.

And since companies are not required to divuldge their chemical list then your guess is as good as mine what else.

No they have to divulge their chemical list, just not how they mix it.
Fire water has been around long before Whiskey. I have no doubt that punching holes in the ground causes gas migration, fraccing however doesn't cause this usually, its drilling.
Alberta needs to start taxing cow farts, it would make more sense than blaming Frac's for methane pollution. And the Cattle Association is long overdue for a big tax kick in the nuts.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

No they have to divulge their chemical list, just not how they mix it.
Fire water has been around long before Whiskey. I have no doubt that punching holes in the ground causes gas migration, fraccing however doesn't cause this usually, its drilling.
Alberta needs to start taxing cow farts, it would make more sense than blaming Frac's for methane pollution. And the Cattle Association is long overdue for a big tax kick in the nuts.

Ya but drilling is part of the fracking process.
So then its going to be associated with the negatives right?

You know more than I do so I can only ask questions.
But you did teach me a few things

But some of the fracking procedures and results are indeed not purely good attributes.

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

So is releasing the stress slowly better or worse? Assuming fracing 2- 3000 m below ground does anything. I'll call BS on fracing causing anything harmful or detrimental. It's the drilling causing problems

then why are these earthquakes specific to the fox Vegas area? Drilling rigs are all over Alberta. It has nothing to do with the chemicals being used but the process itself. Fracturing the earth. Draw your own conclusions

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Luxor

Ya but drilling is part of the fracking process.
So then its going to be associated with the negatives right?

You know more than I do so I can only ask questions.

But some of the fracking procedures and results are indeed not purely good attributes.

I'd say Drilling is part of the Oil/gas recovery process, Fraccing increases the yield, ONLY, in that particular formation being Fractured.
The results from fraccing are increase production, usually, from the particular formation that is Stimulated. I cannot see any correlation between fraccing and earthquakes. The only side effect or pollutants I see is the loss of fresh water pumped down wells, gone from our water cycle for hundreds maybe thousands of years.
Again, most of the Pollutants are in the earth already, mining, drilling are factors in bringing pollutants to the surface, as are many natural occurrences.
For instance, Did you know the "Oil Sands" are the same formation as the Bakken oilfield, thats spreads from AB ,Sask, Manitoba and into Montana,North/south Dakota? The only difference is the "Tar Sand" is 0-300m below ground compared to 1000-3000m below ground in the south. Same oil bearing formation made at near the same time.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by does it ALL outdoors

then why are these earthquakes specific to the fox Vegas area? Drilling rigs are all over Alberta. It has nothing to do with the chemicals being used but the process itself. Fracturing the earth. Draw your own conclusions

How long have they been going on? 10 years or 10,000 or 100,000. Do you know what happened last time Vancouver had a big Quake? Fairmont hot springs boiled black acidic water for weeks, long before anyone dreamed of fraccing.
I suppose the earthquakes 10km below Lethbridge are from fraccing too, has nothing to do with geography, and the Sweetgrass hills are just a giant anthills, as is most of yellowstone and the rocky mountains, created by Moses when he parted the pond? right?
well you asked for my own best conclusions, no need to even get into the Alien theory

[sikwhiskey]

Here is an article I found to not be too far off the track. Hope the link still works it a few years old, didn't get a single hit from this forum???????????????????????? Maybe the link sucks.


http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=bakken

[Kim473]

Yup, drill a million holes in a bowling ball, stick your presure washer in a few of them and see what happens.

[DiabeticKripple]

i think people dont understand how big a fracture really is. its about 1-2mm wide.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i think people dont understand how big a fracture really is. its about 1-2mm wide.

no sense wasting your time with the "experts" DK, they don't want to know

[smartypants]

It's always the oilpatch's fault. Every time a seismic event occurs in the western sedimentary basin...of course it's caused by fraccing. That's because the oil industry immediately renders the entire geological history and predisposition on an area null and void by the mere presence of a frac pumper. See, once you actually start fraccing, from that moment on Mother Nature is incapable of participating in any and all local seismic activity. Even Dr. 'Suki agrees.

[edmhunter]

Went to that earth engine. Watching the development of gas and oil wells spreading was like watching cancer spreading in a human body! Scary stuff!

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

Went to that earth engine. Watching the development of gas and oil wells spreading was like watching cancer spreading in a human body! Scary stuff!

i think what you were seeing was logging.

[silverdoctor]

Makes for an interesting discussion. The USGS has been studying this for years, making some claims with some science to back it up. It's all in what people believe, and how they read the data.

http://www.usgs.gov/faq/taxonomy/term/9833

[AbAngler]

I've been in the industry for quite a while and have fractured many wells. Not personally, but have hired companies to frac for me. Even with the fanciest, most expensive methods used to measure frac distance, effectiveness etc (micro-seismic being the best), nobody really knows what goes on down there for sure. Oh, they'll tell you they know, but in reality, there are so many variables, nobody really knows.

And in Fracturing 101, the first thing they tell you is to disregard anyone or article that spells frac, frack.

Frick and frac!

[DiabeticKripple]

they actually have microseismic now that they place in surrounding wells and can map out where the fracks go.

[AB RANGER 007]

This is what I have put together on my GPS software on the Jan 2015 readings from the Jasper area Recordings.

Bruce.

[AbAngler]

Oh I'm up to speed on the latest and greatest, and yes, micro seismic is helping. When I drill a fringe Cardium well, and keep it below a thin shale layer (the Engineers like to play safe), with hopes of the fracture going up through it to get to the really good stuff, why do some work, and some don't? The frac companies will tell you that it will for sure break through, but in reality, sometimes it doesn't. The IPs tell the story.

Logic says the frac will follow the path of least resistance... But again, there are SOOOO many variables, without getting into a painstakingly detailed discussion, this rocksniffer will remain convinced that nobody knows for sure what goes on down there.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by AB RANGER 007

This is what I have put together on my GPS software on the Jan 2015 readings from the Jasper area Recordings.

Bruce.

Very nice! Real data!

[smartypants]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

And in Fracturing 101, the first thing they tell you is to disregard anyone or article that spells frac, frack.

Fraccin A

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i think what you were seeing was logging.

Nope I zoomed in they were gas of oil well sites, looked like an ever growing spider web. Really very interesting seeing it from that perspective, that's for sure.

[J D]

The way humans live we constantly impact the world. This is not just the fault of the companies that extract these resources.

The problems created by resource extraction are from our wants and needs in our daily lives.

Everybody is at fault because we create the demand for these resources. Without the demand these companies would not be causing damage extracting resources.

We can all complain about it but we can all look at our lives and see the things in our lives that demand resources from the environment. You are posting on this forum with a device that has parts created from extracting resources.

Issues from resource extraction will not change unless humans change their lifestyle

[silverdoctor]

Mother nature can do her own damage, plates are always moving, she's pretty dynamic - albeit slow.

Take the Nepal quake, Mount Everest shrunk 2.8 cm as a result. May not sound like much but that's one heck of alot of rock.

[smartypants]

There's nothing more natural then drilling and fraccing for oil & gas...mother nature put it there...people, natural organisms, inteliigent enough to engineer drilling rigs & frac pumpers, extract hydrocarbons, burn them to create energy for the further advancement of society....natural as natural can be...mother naitch is so very proud.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I've been in the industry for quite a while and have fractured many wells. Not personally, but have hired companies to frac for me. Even with the fanciest, most expensive methods used to measure frac distance, effectiveness etc (micro-seismic being the best), nobody really knows what goes on down there for sure. Oh, they'll tell you they know, but in reality, there are so many variables, nobody really knows.

And in Fracturing 101, the first thing they tell you is to disregard anyone or article that spells frac, frack.

Frick and frac!

Think that someone better tell CAPP?

http://www.capp.ca/publications-and-statistics/glossary

Check under H for Hydraulic fracturing

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by smartypants

There's nothing more natural then drilling and fraccing for oil & gas...mother nature put it there...people, natural organisms, inteliigent enough to engineer drilling rigs & frac pumpers, extract hydrocarbons, burn them to create energy for the further advancement of society....natural as natural can be...mother naitch is so very proud.

The main issue is how much is too much before it becomes an environmental and or public problem.
Its obvious you are new to environmental issues.
You'll learn more in time hopefully as your young mind ages.
Sadly maybe not.

[smartypants]

Originally Posted by Luxor

The main issue is how much is too much before it becomes an environmental and or public problem.
Its obvious you are new to environmental issues.
You'll learn more in time hopefully as your young mind ages.
Sadly maybe not.

oohh geee...thadly maybe not...ooohh thx for lecture grampths

i think the engineers have spec'd a 24 stage frac on our next horizontal....too much for you or?

[The Elkster]

Unless these tremors are somehow triggering a major fault-line and a larger quake (none in AB) or big enough that they are actually felt and do damage at surface (never happened) they are basically insignificant. There are virtually daily natural quakes of similar intensity to that connected to fracing. How do you think AB reservoir got some of their natural fracturing that we target for good production? Nothing to write home about. Move on.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by avb3

Think that someone better tell CAPP?

http://www.capp.ca/publications-and-statistics/glossary

Check under H for Hydraulic fracturing

Ha! Good catch! Thats actually not surprising. CAPP is a joke and has been for a lot of years. We aren't members anymore...

Slightly off topic,
15ish years ago, there was something called the Voluntary Challenge Registry that I was involved in through CAPP. Basically it was to voluntarily reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 1991 levels (think Kyoto). I took it seriously and did a 5hit ton of work gathering information for our company. I literally had binders full of reports that I had generated. Started my presentation and was shut down because lunch was being served. The table alone in that boardroom must have cost $50g +. By the time lunch was over, the meeting was finished. Rinse and repeat for the monthly meeting. It was my introduction to the bloated bureaucracy that is CAPP.

The industry would have a considerable better reputation had CAPP actually done what it was supposed to do. Its a joke.

Carry one.