Castle debacle

[troutLakeJohnnie]

Howdy. I was alarmed that the AB government had taken the action to close off the Castle to ATVs and people in general. I believe there is a dangerous lobby group behind this. Have a look at the website, www.y2y.com. This foreign lobby group is slick and well funded with the sole aim at taking away Canadian lands from it's citizens. They brag about it on their website with a "Before-After" screen of the lands they now control. They try to say their purpose is to save the environment from us Canadians. I believe it goes much deeper than that.

All you have to do is look at the applications for pipelines from Alberta to the west coast. A myriad of special interest groups pop out of no where professing to represent native groups and so on. Where do these groups get their funding?
They are puppets of big US oil. They are nothing less than an attempt to control our land and resource industries.

I am a VP of a group that has decided to take up the fray and fight back against Y2Y and other groups like them.

What can you do? Go to Y2Y.com and look at what they are doing. Educate yourself. Then join a F&W club, offroad club and by any and all means, talk to everyone that will listen.

We need to save our country from foreign interests.

Regards,
Gary

[Pekan]

A few points to add:

the url is y2y.net

y2y is not opposed to hunting. This post belongs in the general discussion section.

Habitat fragmentation is one of their main concerns. Don't think a pipeline in the ground causes habitat fragmentation. A highway does.

How is it possible for one conservation organization to have the provincial gov't create a new park? That just doesn't sound rational. I suspect they lobbied, but to think it was their master plan, executed by them, with no other players....Not rational.

[troutLakeJohnnie]

Thanks. Yes, it is Y2Y.NET

They are scary and they are coming after us in the Kootenays, next.

[The moose]

The head of y2y has had many meetings with Shannon Phillips. The y2y group found their pawn in Alberta and are pushing to establish what ever they can. Im not sure on the US Oil aspect of this thread.

Under no circumstances should Albertan outdoorsmen feel comfortable with out environment minister snug and cozy with the Y2Y group.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by The moose

The head of y2y has had many meetings with Shannon Phillips. The y2y group found their pawn in Alberta and are pushing to establish what ever they can. Im not sure on the US Oil aspect of this thread.

Under no circumstances should Albertan outdoorsmen feel comfortable with out environment minister snug and cozy with the Y2Y group.

Got that right.

Grizz

[seven0eight]

OHVs are being phased out of the Castle, yes....but people and hunting all remain part of the plan for the area. Personally I think it's great!! There will be way less pressure in there once the people who aren't willing to walk find other places to be!

[1cuz1]

They used ohv's as an easy spotlight.
If Y2Y has its way access will effect all users, maybe not all on the same level but eventually every group will feel it.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by seven0eight

OHVs are being phased out of the Castle, yes....but people and hunting all remain part of the plan for the area. Personally I think it's great!! There will be way less pressure in there once the people who aren't willing to walk find other places to be!

If you think this will give Hunters more opportunity to hunt you are mistaken.

"Like all Wildland Provincial Parks, hunting will continue to be permitted in the Castle Wildland Provincial Park under current regulations. These same regulations will also apply to Castle Provincial Park in the short term, including the 2017 hunting season.

In the longer term, a review will be undertaken to determine wildlife management priorities in the Castle Provincial Park. This review will likely lead to a tailored plan (and may include a wildlife management unit with specific allocations) to meet conservation objectives in the park. While some restrictions may be introduced, hunting will remain an important tool for managing wildlife populations."

[Newview01]

Some will never see it for what it is.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Pekan

A few points to add:

the url is y2y.net

y2y is not opposed to hunting. This post belongs in the general discussion section.

Habitat fragmentation is one of their main concerns. Don't think a pipeline in the ground causes habitat fragmentation. A highway does.

How is it possible for one conservation organization to have the provincial gov't create a new park? That just doesn't sound rational. I suspect they lobbied, but to think it was their master plan, executed by them, with no other players....Not rational.

That has to be a joke....

[JohninAB]

Oh I have no doubt hunting will be used in the park but it will be a select few who are allowed to hunt. Think some will have a right, rest be SOL!

[sjd]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

This foreign lobby group is slick and well funded with the sole aim at taking away Canadian lands from it's citizens. They brag about it on their website with a "Before-After" screen of the lands they now control. They try to say their purpose is to save the environment from us Canadians. I believe it goes much deeper than that.

I think your rhetoric is a bit silly. They don't "control" any lands and haven't taken any away. The land is public land, managed by the Government of Alberta, but potentially better managed by Alberta Parks and without logging etc.

PR works because Parks are popular. 80%+ of Albertans want more parks, more wildlife, more enforcement, less abuse by offroaders etc etc. Perhaps you would get a better outcome for your desired uses if you reflected a bit on the high numbers of bad actors in the ranks of some of these groups (while recognizing there are responsible users) and took a zero tolerance approach to this, like hunters do with poachers.

[Peebles]

Maybe if you had linked to the correct site you would have had an easier time correcting all the lies in your post.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

This foreign lobby group

The website lists their headquarters as being in Alberta, and they are a registered charity in Canada.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

with the sole aim at taking away Canadian lands from it's citizens.

Their mission statement is "Connecting and protecting habitat from Yellowstone to Yukon so people and nature can thrive". Many collaborators and employees of Y2Y are Canadian citizens and your assertion does not match their actions, so it's hard to see how they are denying Canada its sovereignty.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

All you have to do is look at the applications for pipelines from Alberta to the west coast. A myriad of special interest groups pop out of no where professing to represent native groups and so on. Where do these groups get their funding?
They are puppets of big US oil. They are nothing less than an attempt to control our land and resource industries.

Now you are conflating Y2Y with unnamed groups with different and again most likely fictional agendas. This is a common but illegitimate rhetorical technique called a straw man.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Go to Y2Y.com and look at what they are doing. Educate yourself.

I did that, and since I'm literate I came to an entirely different conclusion than you did.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Then join a F&W club

I'm a proud member of one.

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

We need to save our country from foreign interests.

We need to save our country from ignorance and falsehoods. We need to save our country from its own citizens who would rather use and destroy our resources now rather than conserving them for our country's long and prosperous future. We need to save our country from people who use emotions and lies to get what they want now and damn the consequences for the future.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by 1cuz1

They used ohv's as an easy spotlight.
If Y2Y has its way access will effect all users, maybe not all on the same level but eventually every group will feel it.

Yep.

https://y2y.net/news/y2y-hunting-pol...vised-2012.pdf

Y2Y's Hunting, Trapping and Fishing Policy
Revised Fall 2012


The Yellowstone to Yukon Conservation Initiative (Y2Y) is committed to the ecological
integrity of, and long term health of habitats and wildlife populations within, the Yellowstone to
Yukon region. Within this context, Y2Y recognizes that hunting, trapping, and fishing:
 are indigenous rights;
 are part of the cultural heritage and economy of the Yellowstone to Yukon region;
 are appropriate activities within the Yellowstone to Yukon region, provided that they are
conducted in an ethical manner that includes fair chase principles; and
 may be appropriate means to help maintain or manage fish and wildlife population health.


In addition, Y2Y acknowledges the legitimacy of wildlife sanctuaries set aside from hunting,
fishin,g or trapping where wildlife populations can recover from the impacts of the developed
landscape, to protect wildlife genetics from the impacts of selection from human-caused
mortality, and which act as source populations for hunting, trapping, and fishing opportunities
outside their boundaries

Sad that some support this.

[beansgunsghandi]

There was a time when hunters were the leading conservationists. The Boone and Crockett club, for example, was formed to maximize wildlife habitat.

Given that history, I'm often surprised to see so many on here opposed to conserving important habitat, in the Castle or elsewhere. I support the management plan for the Castle because I hunt. The land was getting beat up by OHV use, good riddance to 'em. Better hunting for the rest of us.

I'm always proud to be a hunter, but I'm a conservationist first. That just means I want there to be wild places and wild animals for my kids to explore and hunt. There is less and less wild land out there, preserving a bit more of it is a good thing. Hopefully we who hunt will re-discover out conservationist roots and move our sport forward.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Peebles

use and destroy our resources .

This group of words is subjective to the listener.

Which group of listeners should we be catering to?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

The land was getting beat up by OHV use, good riddance to 'em. .

No, it was not. The land was doing just fine. More damage has been done by the garbage left behind than OHVs.

Why don't we ban garbage?

[CF8889]

Aliens are actually forcing our governments across to world to take away our rights to hunt. Then we lose our right to have guns. Then when completely dependent, the aliens are taking over. Y2Y are reptilians...also, I blame the wolves!

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by CF8889

Aliens are actually forcing our governments across to world to take away our rights to hunt. Then we lose our right to have guns. Then when completely dependent, the aliens are taking over. Y2Y are reptilians...also, I blame the wolves!

Until someone discovers how to put a nail in a board and forces the aliens into a hasty retreat...

[CF8889]

SB, you legitimately made me laugh out loud! And I might watch some old simpsons episodes tonight now haha

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

There was a time when hunters were the leading conservationists. The Boone and Crockett club, for example, was formed to maximize wildlife habitat.

Given that history, I'm often surprised to see so many on here opposed to conserving important habitat, in the Castle or elsewhere. I support the management plan for the Castle because I hunt. The land was getting beat up by OHV use, good riddance to 'em. Better hunting for the rest of us.

I'm always proud to be a hunter, but I'm a conservationist first. That just means I want there to be wild places and wild animals for my kids to explore and hunt. There is less and less wild land out there, preserving a bit more of it is a good thing. Hopefully we who hunt will re-discover out conservationist roots and move our sport forward.

"Better hunting for the rest of us"

And the argument is that ohv users are selfish in what they say and how they act. Ironic.

[seven0eight]

Originally Posted by Peebles

Maybe if you had linked to the correct site you would have had an easier time correcting all the lies in your post.


The website lists their headquarters as being in Alberta, and they are a registered charity in Canada.


Their mission statement is "Connecting and protecting habitat from Yellowstone to Yukon so people and nature can thrive". Many collaborators and employees of Y2Y are Canadian citizens and your assertion does not match their actions, so it's hard to see how they are denying Canada its sovereignty.


Now you are conflating Y2Y with unnamed groups with different and again most likely fictional agendas. This is a common but illegitimate rhetorical technique called a straw man.


I did that, and since I'm literate I came to an entirely different conclusion than you did.


I'm a proud member of one.


We need to save our country from ignorance and falsehoods. We need to save our country from its own citizens who would rather use and destroy our resources now rather than conserving them for our country's long and prosperous future. We need to save our country from people who use emotions and lies to get what they want now and damn the consequences for the future.

Well said. Nice to see when intelligent hunters and conservationists step into the conversation with facts and logic, rather than fear and conspiracy theories.

[walking buffalo]

Troutlakejohnny has provided misinformation, just as the current Y2Y webpage does.


Y2Y is the spawn of Mountain Equipment Co-op, (MEC), financed by funds siphoned off of their sales. The available propaganda promoted by Y2Y is designed to trick the masses into accepting their "public" agenda, while taking a distinctly different approach in reality.

MEC also mothered "The Big Wild". A plan to eliminate human occupation from half of North America. This was the Hardcore conservationists wing of Y2Y.

Over the last several years, MEC Y2Y and The Big Wild have edited and cleansed their publicly available material in order to appear mainstream and inclusive, a mature marketing directive.



Remember how Nahanni National Park was formed and who lobbied for what?


Y2Y was instrumental in eliminating hunting this area for anyone EXCEPT those with Indigenous blood. This is how they got the support of the local native community to create the park.

The same crap is used by many other preservationists organizations, Sierra Club, Sea Shepard.... they ALL will say they are pro hunting, then state hunting Only by Aboriginal people, no to "Recreational Hunting".

Y2Y pretends to be supportive of hunting, in reality they will happily lobby for reductions and racist segregation of hunting rights, while NEVER working towards Increasing hunting opportunities for ALL.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Troutlakejohnny has provided misinformation, just as the current Y2Y webpage does.


Y2Y is the spawn of Mountain Equipment Co-op, (MEC), financed by funds siphoned off of their sales. The available propaganda promoted by Y2Y is designed to trick the masses into accepting their "public" agenda, while taking a distinctly different approach in reality.

MEC also mothered "The Big Wild". A plan to eliminate human occupation from half of North America. This was the Hardcore conservationists wing of Y2Y.

Over the last several years, MEC Y2Y and The Big Wild have edited and cleansed their publicly available material in order to appear mainstream and inclusive, a mature marketing directive.



Remember how Nahanni National Park was formed and who lobbied for what?


Y2Y was instrumental in eliminating hunting this area for anyone EXCEPT those with Indigenous blood. This is how they got the support of the local native community to create the park.

The same crap is used by many other preservationists organizations, Sierra Club, Sea Shepard.... they ALL will say they are pro hunting, then state hunting Only by Aboriginal people, no to "Recreational Hunting".

Y2Y pretends to be supportive of hunting, in reality they will happily lobby for reductions and racist segregation of hunting rights, while NEVER working towards Increasing hunting opportunities for ALL.

^^
This is exactly correct.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Troutlakejohnny has provided misinformation, just as the current Y2Y webpage does.


Y2Y is the spawn of Mountain Equipment Co-op, (MEC), financed by funds siphoned off of their sales. The available propaganda promoted by Y2Y is designed to trick the masses into accepting their "public" agenda, while taking a distinctly different approach in reality.

MEC also mothered "The Big Wild". A plan to eliminate human occupation from half of North America. This was the Hardcore conservationists wing of Y2Y.

Over the last several years, MEC Y2Y and The Big Wild have edited and cleansed their publicly available material in order to appear mainstream and inclusive, a mature marketing directive.



Remember how Nahanni National Park was formed and who lobbied for what?


Y2Y was instrumental in eliminating hunting this area for anyone EXCEPT those with Indigenous blood. This is how they got the support of the local native community to create the park.

The same crap is used by many other preservationists organizations, Sierra Club, Sea Shepard.... they ALL will say they are pro hunting, then state hunting Only by Aboriginal people, no to "Recreational Hunting".

Y2Y pretends to be supportive of hunting, in reality they will happily lobby for reductions and racist segregation of hunting rights, while NEVER working towards Increasing hunting opportunities for ALL.

Thank you for posting this. needed to be said

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by CF8889

SB, you legitimately made me laugh out loud! And I might watch some old simpsons episodes tonight now haha

Haha! I'm so glad someone got the reference!

Originally Posted by The moose

Thank you for posting this. needed to be said

That's for sure - thanks, WB.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Newview01

No, it was not. The land was doing just fine. More damage has been done by the garbage left behind than OHVs.

Why don't we ban garbage?

Throwing garbage on public land is banned, it is called littering and it is a provincial offence.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Troutlakejohnny has provided misinformation, just as the current Y2Y webpage does.


Y2Y is the spawn of Mountain Equipment Co-op, (MEC), financed by funds siphoned off of their sales. The available propaganda promoted by Y2Y is designed to trick the masses into accepting their "public" agenda, while taking a distinctly different approach in reality.

MEC also mothered "The Big Wild". A plan to eliminate human occupation from half of North America. This was the Hardcore conservationists wing of Y2Y.

Over the last several years, MEC Y2Y and The Big Wild have edited and cleansed their publicly available material in order to appear mainstream and inclusive, a mature marketing directive.



Remember how Nahanni National Park was formed and who lobbied for what?


Y2Y was instrumental in eliminating hunting this area for anyone EXCEPT those with Indigenous blood. This is how they got the support of the local native community to create the park.

The same crap is used by many other preservationists organizations, Sierra Club, Sea Shepard.... they ALL will say they are pro hunting, then state hunting Only by Aboriginal people, no to "Recreational Hunting".

Y2Y pretends to be supportive of hunting, in reality they will happily lobby for reductions and racist segregation of hunting rights, while NEVER working towards Increasing hunting opportunities for ALL.

I saw you posted this info on another thread and I am not questioning it's truth, but why would a company like MEC want 1/2 of Canada wilderness shutdown to humans when their business depends of the sales of items to access those remote areas? Doesn't seem like a very good business model.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

[/B]

Throwing garbage on public land is banned, it is called littering and it is a provincial offence.

That's impossible! Banning __________ fixes all problems related to it/them!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

I saw you posted this info on another thread and I am not questioning it's truth, but why would a company like MEC want 1/2 of Canada wilderness shutdown to humans when their business depends of the sales of items to access those remote areas? Doesn't seem like a very good business model.

I doubt MEC directors truly desired to shut down 1/2 of Canada to humans, other than the Natives. Maybe some did, but all realized that founding an arms length lobby group was an excellent way to gain financial and emotional support for the base cause, to develop more Parks that exclude industry and non-native hunting.


If you really care, you should look at how international fundraising can be fantastically profitable simply by marketing to people that are completely disconnected to the issue except for a fleeting emotion.