Long Range Shooting/Hunting

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

To me the minimum gear would be a laser range finder, accurate rifle and a ballisticturret/reticle scope. No requirement to break the bank on any of these, they just need to be suitable for the ranges you will be shooting.

Anything in mind for scopes that wouldn't break?

[silver lab]

The bank...Sorry

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by equanuck

Sheephunter, am glad you brought up the no ethics police.

asking is one thing....getting it is quite another. im gonna have to say congratulations to a few who i know are biting thier tongues.......keep up the good work guys. this is nice to see.

Zeiss Conquest with Rapid Z.

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

asking is one thing....getting it is quite another. im gonna have to say congratulations to a few who i know are biting thier tongues.......keep up the good work guys. this is nice to see.

It is nice to see....some good info being exchanged here

[crazyfish]

nightforce 3.5-15x 50 .250 moa P+D ent. 1750 $

zeiss conquest rapid z 4.5-14x44 basspro 880$

huskemaw 5-20x50 LR 1250 $ corlanes

all these sound llike pretty good deals , turrets on 2 of them, add some time at the range and sounds like a good start !

[Andrzej]

Advances in today's technology are helping us to reach further than ever with long range shooting and hunting.

I think, based on analysis of ballistic tables,that long range hunting can be divided in two categories.
300-500 y and
500 and beyond

300-500y
With proper cartridge selection it is doable without getting to complicated.
I think that the maximum bullet drop for this application can be about 36 inches at 500y with 3" high at 100y.
I think that at this distance regular duplex reticle in 3-12 ;4.5 -14 scope is good enough to shoot and for proper hold over and with lots of practice and good eye sight 3-9 will do. Wind drift except extreme may be ignored.

500 and beyond
Based on how fast bullets are drown down by G force there is no way to hold over so we need Drop Compensating Reticles or Target Turrets, bigger magnification scope and all theory behind with wind drift, elevation, barometric pressure and other forces that influence bullet in flight which takes about 1.5 second to reach target at 1000 y.

Technology involved
Chronograph, Range finder, Ballistic program and most important range time.

My long range rig is custom 7 STW with 140 TTSX at 3450 ft/sec set high 3.04 at 100y with calculated drop 18.65" at 500y and 1720 ft/lb remaining ( ISnipe on Iphone) Scoped with Leupold 4,5-14 x40 AO LR .
I could push this setup till 600y and beyond but if I go there it will have Turrets on Night Force 5.5-22 scope or something similar with Mil Dot reticle.

I am in first group Long Range Hunting ( up to 500y) so is my equipment and skills. I am working on this last component year around.
Andrew

[dgl1948]

I'd agree that for most people it is preparedness

I think one of the most limiting factors is how many people have a place to practice shots from 500 to 1000 yards? I have a range set up on my home 1/4 and it takes a lot of ground for something like this.

[equanuck]

Distance shooting is a whole lot like golf. Partially equipment mostly practice. I can honestly say that the shooting or reloading books that I read helped me a lot more than Golf Digest helped my game. And just like my golf game I find that the first bit of shooting after being away for a few months is not as good as the 2nd or 3rd week.

[Okotokian]

I smell magazine article research.... LOL

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I smell magazine article research.... LOL

Hey! Some of us have been shooting since "just a little"... before internet was out. When the power goes down or the computer locks up... I still have my reload manuals and a s***load of old hunting & fishing magazines. LOL!
Besides when I fly into Iraq I don't have any problems bringing in Golf Digest.... Guns & Ammo??? Might question that choice. LOL!

[Almer Fudd]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

To me the minimum gear would be a laser range finder, accurate rifle and a ballisticturret/reticle scope. No requirement to break the bank on any of these, they just need to be suitable for the ranges you will be shooting.

how do these ballistic turret/reticle scopes hold up to the rigors of horseback hunting? Are they more fragile than standard scopes?
My old VarXIII (2.5-8) has not needed a single adjustment in years (maybe decades), but my old eyes and 8 power make anything over 300 yds look pretty far.

When you say "accurate rifle", how would you define accurate.

Thanks for your opinions.

I've put mine through some fairly serious abuse with no ill effects. There really are no more moving parts or anything else to break.

Accuracy is a million dollar question for sure. The cop out answer is accurate enough to consistently deliver a kill shot at the distance you are shooting.

[Almer Fudd]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I've put mine through some fairly serious abuse with no ill effects. There really are no more moving parts or anything else to break.

Accuracy is a million dollar question for sure. The cop out answer is accurate enough to consistently deliver a kill shot at the distance you are shooting.

OK, I'll put it another way.
My Ruger M-77 in .270 is likely 30 years old and shoots 150gr. partition factory loads inside 1.5 inches from a bi-pod rest (3 shot groups).
I'm considering another scope and a new stock or maybe just get a new rifle.
My intention would be to have the equiptment and confidence for 500-600 yd. shots.

Originally Posted by Almer Fudd

OK, I'll put it another way.
My Ruger M-77 in .270 is likely 30 years old and shoots 150gr. partition factory loads inside 1.5 inches from a bi-pod rest (3 shot groups).
I'm considering another scope and a new stock or maybe just get a new rifle.
My intention would be to have the equiptment and confidence for 500-600 yd. shots.

A number often thrown around for a 500 yard rifle is one that shoots at least MOA....I'm not sure there is a difinitive answer.

[kaleh01]

I think something that is often overlooked in this whole scenario is the rings and bases you utilize to hold Scope brand X onto your rifle for long range. You can have the best target turret scope available, and be able to hit targets all day at your chosen cut off or personal max shot range. But if you cheap out on rings and a base, choose not to lap your rings to allow for more surface contact with your scope tube it may be all for not. These items can move, along with your scope, be bent or snagged and damaged and your trip could be ruined.

I personally try and save weight on a rifle just so I can used high quality steel rings and bases or better! Two seasons ago I slipped on some ice coming up a trail and my 10 lb .308 tactical rig which I was hunting with came out of my hands and fell at least 5 feet onto the same frozen ground and ice.
Besides a mark on the elevation target turret, no problems. Shot two groups before going back out and it hadn't changed zero or lost any tracking at all. Now I know there's going to be those individuals who say, "I've had a gun with twenty dollar rings for the last fifteen years, they've never moved!" And all I can reply to that is you may be right, but why take the chance of ruining a backcountry trip because of those same low quality rings, bases or scopes, to me it's not worth the chance.

Especially in the case of the earlier horseback hunting example, this is something to consider. My hunting gun I'm currently building will feature a NEAR Mfg. Alphahunter, a one piece mount that's crazy strong and sleek. Can't wait.

My two cents.... agree or not, it's your call. Happy Shooting everyone.

[bigoldan43]

Originally Posted by kaleh01

I think something that is often overlooked in this whole scenario is the rings and bases you utilize to hold Scope brand X onto your rifle for long range. You can have the best target turret scope available, and be able to hit targets all day at your chosen cut off or personal max shot range. But if you cheap out on rings and a base, choose not to lap your rings to allow for more surface contact with your scope tube it may be all for not. These items can move, along with your scope, be bent or snagged and damaged and your trip could be ruined.

I personally try and save weight on a rifle just so I can used high quality steel rings and bases or better! Two seasons ago I slipped on some ice coming up a trail and my 10 lb .308 tactical rig which I was hunting with came out of my hands and fell at least 5 feet onto the same frozen ground and ice.
Besides a mark on the elevation target turret, no problems. Shot two groups before going back out and it hadn't changed zero or lost any tracking at all. Now I know there's going to be those individuals who say, "I've had a gun with twenty dollar rings for the last fifteen years, they've never moved!" And all I can reply to that is you may be right, but why take the chance of ruining a backcountry trip because of those same low quality rings, bases or scopes, to me it's not worth the chance.

Especially in the case of the earlier horseback hunting example, this is something to consider. My hunting gun I'm currently building will feature a NEAR Mfg. Alphahunter, a one piece mount that's crazy strong and sleek. Can't wait.

My two cents.... agree or not, it's your call. Happy Shooting everyone.

A big X2. Couldn't of said it better myself.
I would add for me, it was worth the investment to get my scope mounted right. Yes it cost me a couple bucks but I'm pretty sure it's a better job than "Buddy" in the back of WSS that slaps it on for free in 10 min would do.

Just my 2 cents worth

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by equanuck

Sheephunter, am glad you brought up the no ethics police. You seem very knowledgeable as I've seen your writings on many posts and I was wanting to question anyone on type of bullet for long range hunting. Since I started reloading years ago for my 300 Wby I found that all the information for the types of bullets showed the BTHP as "target" only but as the highest BC. I found that it was by far the most accurate bullet reload in my 300 when I started reloading. Maybe it was simply the 1st load that I found really good accuracy for and needed to do more charge or powder combination's for the Nosler or other bullets that I was trying. Anyway, I've shot a lot of deer, several moose, 1 sheep and I don't know how many bear and coyotes with this combination.

My thinking for distance shooting is that the most accurate bullet with enough weight and velocity behind it is best. I shoot for heart/lung behind the shoulder and have not lost a deer or other animal that I have decided to shoot at with this load. My newer rifles are still shooting factory loads as I just have not had the time to start load ups but I have Sierra match ammo in stock for 2 new Wby's and when I start loading these will be my hunting bullets. I also now have all the accessories to check my loads (chrony etc.) which I didn't have years back to enable me to verify the bullet stats.

Just wondering if anyone else has used Boat Tailed Hollow Points for big game? I'm not talking varmint calibre rifles (6mm etc) but .308 and up with the powder behind them to push the bullet.

I met a gunsmith in Billings Montana, about 20 years back, who used nothing but 180 Sierra BTHP Match bullets in his 300 Win Mag. He claimed to have taken numerous elk.

I began long range shooting, on moose in the Peace River valley, in the late 1960's after purchasing a BSA 270 and Bushnell 3-9X40 Scopchief IV. At first it was guesstimate the range, select appropriate hold according to the ballistics printed on the Winchester 130 power points box, and shoot. If the wind was in my face or in my back windage was not a problem, if it wasn't I wouldn't shoot. If I missed it was because I underestimated so would elevate about 1' and shoot again. Longest shot was about 7' drop which was about 600 yards. Got more than one moose that way. Did the same with a BSA in a 7mm Magnum for a while.

In the late 1980's I was fortunate enough to be able to put together a Remington 700 V with a factory 7mm-08 barrel that replaced the rusty 22-250 barrel. I managed to find a used Redfeild 4-12 X40 with BDC and built in range finding capabilities to 600 yards on a moose. First job was to find a good load and check to see that I had my scope mounted square to the receiver as this is a must if you are going to use a BDC at long range. Found a load with a Nosler 150 SB at 2815 fps that shot 0.310" groups and spent a lot of time adjusting scope to track vertically to 300 yards. Found a load that better suited the BDC with the 140 Nosler SB at 3000 fps and managed to shoot a 0.19" group with it. Had my first long range rig and had the opportunity to try it on a moose that ranged 600 yards, back to brisket. Only problem, he was about 400 feet up so I dialed in 575 yards, aimed at the center of his ribcage and pulled the trigger. Moose walked about 12 steps, grunted and fell dead with the bullet passing through and exiting through the off scapula.

In the later years I upgraded the old rifle with HS stock, Jewell Trigger and a Burris 6-24X50 Etreme Tactical scope. With this rig and Speer 110 TNT's at 3250-3300fps, shooting 1/4 MOA groups and under 1/2 MOA to 600 yards, it was hell on gophers. I had planned on testing the Hornady 162 A-Max on a 600 yard moose but never got the opportunity. I had this bullet doing 2750-2788fps, on a hot day, and could print 2" groups at 600 yards from the bipod. I never felt that I needed a larger caliber gun as the 7mm08 never failed me.

I have always chronographed my loads, which is another must for long range shooting and I used ballistics tables to calculate trajectory and terminal energy untill I got the RCBS Load program. A Leika 1200 rangefinder has taken the guesswork out of ranging. I still stick to my old method of windage calculation which is to not shoot past 300 yards, if there is a strong wind unless it is in my face or on my back.

I built a Custom Rem 700 rifle, in my 6.5 EXTREME, designed to push the 140 VLD to 3200fps. It is capable of sub 1/2MOA to over 800 yards, with the 140 VLd @ 3010fps -3100 fps, and has more than enough energy to dispatch a deer at that distance. It is topped with a Zeiss Conquest, 6.5-20 X50, with target turrets. Unfortunately my health no longer allows me to big game hunt so I sold this rifle to a young fellow. He is very happy with its performance and reported that he could see the bullet hits on the 30" gong at 960 yards and he did manage to hit a 3-1/2" X 3-1/2" gong at that distance on his fifth try. Again, as fate would have it, he got his buck at less than 100 yards.

Last but not least, shooting at long range is the best way to become proficient. To this end I shoot thousands of rounds at targets and gophers with my Custom CZ 527 in my 20 EXTREME Wildcat. It is topped with a Leupold 6.5-20 X40 LR with a varmint hunter reticule which compensates the 40 V-Max to 500 yards when pushed at 3500 (large triangle)- 3636 fps (20 power). I have shot 0.58" group with the 3636fps load at 300 yards. I have several loads that are capable of head shots on gophers to 300 yards, if the wind cooperates. I may never get the opportunity to shoot longer range big game but I feel that I am qualified to set up the rifle, develop appropriate loads and pull the trigger.

[marlin1]

The last post sounds like some amazing accuracey . Last weekend shooting at 300 from a sand bags and a bench I had trouble keeping them on paper with a brisk cross wind angling across the range. I am only using a leupold 3-9VX-2 with a mil-dot reticle for range only. My shots using the first dot seemed high at 300 with the 7mm rem mag putting them 2-3 inches high at 100 with the cross hairs. Are the two dots ranged for 300 and 400 or 400 and 500 . Or am I doing something wrong ? Do i need a chrony or just consistent loads ? I'm shooting 140 grain bullets at the moment but may be shooting factory ammo this year . Can 400 yard consistency be had with factory loads? thanks for any input

[Floppy]

I am trying but i find it hard to find the time a good place to shoot long distances. I have taken one elk at a 1/2 mile and some deer and coyotes up to 500 yard but i have to admit that some of them were lucky. I didn't fully understand all there was to lr shooting. One example I went to shoot a deer around 500 yards. I adjusted for hight but didn't allow for enough drift. When I took the shot the deer went to put his head down. As the shot went off the deer just vanished, my buddy was watching and said "You Fu***** got him". When we got up to the deer we noticed that i hit him right at the base of the ear. I guess all I am trying to say is that it is easier to shoot lr now with all the advances but it is still some what of a guessing game. I will continue to pratice and will shoot at lr if it is needed but some times things don't go as planned and thats when you need a little luck on your side.

[hardy]

Floppy not to be rude or to derail the thread but you must be real lucky if you can down an elk at 880yards which is 1/2 mile, and not really understand all there was to long range shooting. Anyway I have been shooting at my dads farm for the last seven years long range. We have targets at 320,350,400,500,600,800,900 and 1000yards. I mostly shoot with .308 but the 300wsm and .243 are fine aswell. A great beginner scope is the bushnell 3200 10X I have shot tonnes of ammo with this scope even to 1000y with no problems. Ballistic plex reticles are fast when shooting at game but you MUST verify them by actually shooting at all distances. This allows the shooter to see what his bullet really does. My farthest deer was shot 300 yards and i have killed coyotes at 450,482,502 and 727yards. I used to use milldot reticles but found that i would always just skim or miss the yote i was trying to shoot. I now use a swarovski 8x30 range finder and hardly ever use my bino's now. I think when it comes to long range moa accuracy is okay as long as that is still inside the kill zone of your target and a accurate rangefinder is a must. Just my 2cents.