Long Range Shooting/Hunting

[densa44]

When I first moved here many years ago I met a fellow who was driving a Toyota 4x4 with a steel roof rack and a winch on the bumper. The roof rack was bent down in the middle and he told me that a moose caused the damage. It turns out when hunting with his son in law they saw a moose, in range I gather but the older man wouldn't let him shoot until the animal was at a place that he could drive the truck. The winch cable was run out and over the roof of the Toy and the moose hauled up ready for its trip to the butcher shop! Smart guy.
Until that story every moose hunting saga I knew had a very unhappy ending. As they say "when you pull that trigger your holiday is over". Are there some stories of a long range shot that the hunter wished he hadn't taken?
For me if the dog can't bring it back I don't want to shoot it. Too old too!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

As they say "when you pull that trigger your holiday is over". Are there some stories of a long range shot that the hunter wished he hadn't taken?
For me if the dog can't bring it back I don't want to shoot it. Too old too!

One hunter I know shot a moose across a pond, many years ago (1978) Last day of his hunt and all that was seen were cows for 6 days.
It was a far shot for sure, and he was told to "hold REAL high" - he held what he figured was two feet above the bull's shoulder and hit the water in front of him! Now this rifle was an accurate one in 30'06 using a 180 grain bulletzeroed at 300 yards, so yes. it was long! Another shell was jacked in and he gave the crosshairs a full four feet over the moose's shoulder and hit him in the neck - a pefect bang flop in KNEE DEEP WATER!!!
Needless to say, I NEVER want to shoot a moose in water - unless I have boat!!
Live and learn.....
Cat

Originally Posted by densa44

Are there some stories of a long range shot that the hunter wished he hadn't taken?
For me if the dog can't bring it back I don't want to shoot it. Too old too!

I've always lived by the moto, "shoot it and we'll eat it here"

[wwbirds]

When I first moved to Alberta some friends invited me on my first ever alberta Mulie buck hunt on a ranch adjacent to the Red Deer River near Jenner. While they were riding the coulees on horseback I wandered the tops of the coulee. Saw what I thought was a large 4 X 4 buck go to the bottom of a large coulee. no rangefinder in those days so took a line of top of back and he went down so must have been 3-400 yards down a very steep coulee. Two guys came along and walked down with me, cut a pole and we walked it up on pole taking turns. If they hadn't come along I would still be there eating it.

Earlier in my hunting career in Ontario the Rancourts invited me on their annual French River expedition which involved boats motors tents and about 6 portages.
While about 5 miles from river I happened upon a bull moose bedded down in a dry slough. Raised the gun to look as he was getting up and Gerry Rancourt beside me pushed the rifle down saying "if you shoot a moose this far from the river it will take everyone 2 days to get the meat back to the truck and no one in camp wil ever speak to you again". That bull walked away.

[Juicy]

I just started getting into it myself here this year. Sent my rifle down to corlanes in dawsonb creek and they mounted a huskemaw scope with all my information they received from the gun while shooting the Burger VLD bullets. Once I got it back I went to my buddies pasture and wrong the gong out to 450 yards with just the trun of the dial but that was as much as I played around with it. The scope is pretty clear and I do like the fact that the wind reticale (sp) is put right into the scope. I want to get out alot more this summer as I know have 2000 rounds to play with. I like to keep my shots close if I can but it would be fun to take a poke at one with a bit more practise.

What would you recommend for a range finder I have a bushnell 1000 with arc and it seems I can only range up to about 500 and some yards.

[209x50]

It is very hard to top the Zeiss, Swaro and Leica rangefinders.

[Juicy]

Originally Posted by 209x50

It is very hard to top the Zeiss, Swaro and Leica rangefinders.

I never really had a look at those, honestly I never even knew they made them. I thought it was only scopes and binos that they made. I will have to check them out for sure, thanks.

[Almer Fudd]

Originally Posted by 209x50

It is very hard to top the Zeiss, Swaro and Leica rangefinders.

Are the Leica 10X42 Geovids and the Zeiss 10X45 RF as accurate as the range finders?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Almer Fudd

Are the Leica 10X42 Geovids and the Zeiss 10X45 RF as accurate as the range finders?

I used the Zeiss 10x45 RF this fall and I can say that yes they are very accurate and the distance they work at floored me. I've ranged to beyond 1600 yards.

Originally Posted by Almer Fudd

Are the Leica 10X42 Geovids and the Zeiss 10X45 RF as accurate as the range finders?

I've tested both extensively and yes they are as accurate as a stand alone range finder but far more convenient.

[equanuck]

I got into longer range shooting 12 years or so back when I started reloading for my 300 Wby. When I started reading into the ballistics, velocities, windage corrections uphill/downhill compensations etc. that was when I started reallizing that there was a lot more to long distance hunting/shooting than putting the cross hair on target and pulling the trigger. Used to hear about this "flat shooting" calibre or another, even 2 yrs ago at a local buck of the season... 1 of the fellows looking at my 30-378 Wby "quote" "My friend has this gun... 300 - 500yrds with zero drop". My 1st Nightforce scope was a 12-42x56 BR model, zeroed @ 300 I could use it confidently to 500 and practiced a bit @ 600yd. 2 yrs back I bought both a 30-378 and 338-378 in Accumark and put a 5.5-22x56 NF NXS on the 338 and a Leupold 3.5-10 VXL on the 30. Both guns are accurate and both with muzzle brakes so for target shooting hearing protection but for hunting and 1-2 shots, no problem. Where I hunt around home it's a lot of truck / quad hunting... drive to where you have a short walk and possibly a long wait. The 30-378 is now my short range choice if I'm walking as it weighs less with a smaller scope and the 338 has bi-pod attached for when I'm sitting on a hill. My latest addition was the purchase of a .408 CheyTac custom made rifle with all the accessories and necessities. I've only had the opportunity to do up some load tests and shoot out to 600yds as I left for Iraq in Oct but I plan to shoot it out to 1500yds this year and maybe 2000 as I have the space to do so. I came across a ballistic calculator system "www.biggameinfo.com" that shows recommended game weights with specific bullets/weights/velocities/distances etc

Hit a button. Anyway the big game info calculator showed an animal weight for 1500yds of around 500 pound as recommended max size. Basically a small Elk. As a note it showed an animal max weight of 6,000 lbs at the muzzle and I'll be looking for that moose this fall. LOL!

[Juicy]

Had a look at some of them range finder / Bino's and holy smokes they are a pretty penny. A guy would have to buy used in order to afford something like that. Might take me awhile to save up for that kind of a cost. I can see how conveniant they would be during a hunt though, your partner could watch the shot while he ranges it for you. Would work well I think, but the price is what would throw me off.
Sorry to get off topic.

Ya they aren't cheap that's for sure. The thing I like about them is that they are always around your neck and handy. I use them more for planning and executing stalks more than I do ranging actual targets.

[Juicy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya they aren't cheap that's for sure. The thing I like about them is that they are always around your neck and handy. I use them more for planning and executing stalks more than I do ranging actual targets.

How so, just in regards to knowing how many yards a guy has to go to get to certian points and how much distance a guy has to travel.
They would work well for long distance hunting as your hunting partner or yourself could see trophy potential and get an accurate reading while buddy is setting up for the shot.

Originally Posted by Juicy

How so, just in regards to knowing how many yards a guy has to go to get to certian points and how much distance a guy has to travel.
They would work well for long distance hunting as your hunting partner or yourself could see trophy potential and get an accurate reading while buddy is setting up for the shot.

Ya that for sure plus I rarely keep a stand alone rangefinder around my neck and it always seems a chore to dig it out. I can quickly range the next vantage spot on a stalk or I can quickly range a target if need be. Like you say, it's pretty awesome when I'm guiding or hunting with a buddy too.

[Chet]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya they aren't cheap that's for sure. The thing I like about them is that they are always around your neck and handy. I use them more for planning and executing stalks more than I do ranging actual targets.

Same here. I find them so handy it is ridiculous. I find myself ranging rock piles and ridges all them time when I am on a stalk or planning a stalk so I know where I need to get to. I think my hunting partners are starting to grow tired of the range guessing competitions whenever we see something though.

Originally Posted by Chet

Same here. I find them so handy it is ridiculous. I find myself ranging rock piles and ridges all them time when I am on a stalk or planning a stalk so I know where I need to get to. I think my hunting partners are starting to grow tired of the range guessing competitions whenever we see something though.

LOL I hear that. I just wish it didn't range so darned far. I remember a few days on my Dall hunt heading back to camp after a long day and thinking camp was so close...only to range it and find it was still nearly a mile away...lol

[Juicy]

Yea we had that problem in NZ with the Thar, my rangefinder was in my pocket and the guide never had one so it was a mad rush to pull it out and throw it too my friend while i got the rifle set up on the backpack. Needless to say that one slipped away through the cracks before we could even get a shot.

[Skinnydipper]

Originally Posted by Chet

Same here. I find them so handy it is ridiculous. I find myself ranging rock piles and ridges all them time when I am on a stalk or planning a stalk so I know where I need to get to. I think my hunting partners are starting to grow tired of the range guessing competitions whenever we see something though.

Cool, does that mean I'm normal if I get caught up in the same silly game

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Please no ethics police in this discussion or degredation of those that choose to shoot longer ranges or those that might be new at it. I'm just kind of curious how many people are getting into long range shooting and how much technology they are employing. From high BC bullets to ballistic software to ballistic reticle/turret scopes to laser range finders. What are you finding a really helps you, how long have you been at it and how far are you shooting?

I know 600 yards is becoming very comfortable for me. I know I'm no better shot than I was 10 years ago but I know technology has allowed me to become comfortable at twice the range I was 10 years ago. How about you?

Sheephunter, am glad you brought up the no ethics police. You seem very knowledgeable as I've seen your writings on many posts and I was wanting to question anyone on type of bullet for long range hunting. Since I started reloading years ago for my 300 Wby I found that all the information for the types of bullets showed the BTHP as "target" only but as the highest BC. I found that it was by far the most accurate bullet reload in my 300 when I started reloading. Maybe it was simply the 1st load that I found really good accuracy for and needed to do more charge or powder combinations for the Nosler or other bullets that I was trying. Anyway, I've shot a lot of deer, several moose, 1 sheep and I don't know how many bear and coyotes with this combination.

My thinking for distance shooting is that the most accurate bullet with enough weight and velocity behind it is best. I shoot for heart/lung behind the shoulder and have not lost a deer or other animal that I have decided to shoot at with this load. My newer rifles are still shooting factory loads as I just have not had the time to start load ups but I have Sierra match ammo in stock for 2 new Wby's and when I start loading these will be my hunting bullets. I also now have all the accessories to check my loads (chrony etc.) which I didn't have years back to enable me to verify the bullet stats.

Just wondering if anyone else has used Boat Tailed Hollow Points for big game? I'm not talking varmint calibre rifles (6mm etc) but .308 and up with the powder behind them to push the bullet.

[Peacepipe]

Not a long range shooter myself but saw this on a board in BC.
1100yards and a nice bull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWAXQUCv8qo

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by equanuck

Just wondering if anyone else has used Boat Tailed Hollow Points for big game? I'm not talking varmint calibre rifles (6mm etc) but .308 and up with the powder behind them to push the bullet.

All the of the bullets I load for long range hunting over are BTHP hunting bullets
Boat tails have a distinct advantage past 500 yards.
Cat

[NINJABABY]

Originally Posted by Peacepipe

Not a long range shooter myself but saw this on a board in BC.
1100yards and a nice bull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWAXQUCv8qo

In the above linked youtube video, Can some one explain me how the Hell the two moose on left disappear at 1.20 ????????????????

Originally Posted by NINJABABY

In the above linked youtube video, Can some one explain me how the Hell the two moose on left disappear at 1.20 ????????????????

There's a disolve there (two different pieces of video are put together)...likely to shorten the sequence.

[WkndWarrior]

Now that a trophy and non-trophy antelope tag is close to being drawn for I'm planning to start pulling the trigger more often at the 300 yard range first then go from there.

Theres lots of discussion about dropping big coin on tools to make the the long range job more reliable but is there means to be an effective long range shooter on a budget?

To me the minimum gear would be a laser range finder, accurate rifle and a ballisticturret/reticle scope. No requirement to break the bank on any of these, they just need to be suitable for the ranges you will be shooting.

[WkndWarrior]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

To me the minimum gear would be a laser range finder, accurate rifle and a ballisticturret/reticle scope. No requirement to break the bank on any of these, they just need to be suitable for the ranges you will be shooting.

I'd like to be able to reach out to 500 eventually. Would you agree a 4-12 x 40 could be used up to that range?

I priced out a few things and to my surprize I could get a decent range finder and the scope (above) for around 6 bills. I would like to think I already own an acurate gun but there seems to be issues with the guy pulling the trigger from time to time.

[Frans]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

To me the minimum gear would be a laser range finder, accurate rifle and a ballisticturret/reticle scope. No requirement to break the bank on any of these, they just need to be suitable for the ranges you will be shooting.

Probably a good idea to just take your go-to deer rifle and start popping targets at 300 and 400, maybe even 500, depending on what you shoot, and your scope. You should be able to do that with naught but some ballistic tables, and your regular scope. Even a 2" shooter at 100 would still shoot minute-of-deer at that distance.

Once you can do that, it's early enough to start investing in the whiz-bang technologies.

Personally, I'd start with a range finder. I found that beyond 250, in the open prairies, or across coulees, or in the shale, I'm pretty much useless at estimating distances. My scope has a gimmick that is supposed to help, but somehow the animals never want to stand still long enough, and at distances where it matters the 8X magnification doesn't allow for an accurate assessment.

Wonder why Santa didn't bring me one?

[depopulator]

Originally Posted by Frans

Probably a good idea to just take your go-to deer rifle and start popping targets at 300 and 400, maybe even 500, depending on what you shoot, and your scope. You should be able to do that with naught but some ballistic tables, and your regular scope. Even a 2" shooter at 100 would still shoot minute-of-deer at that distance.

Once you can do that, it's early enough to start investing in the whiz-bang technologies.

Personally, I'd start with a range finder. I found that beyond 250, in the open prairies, or across coulees, or in the shale, I'm pretty much useless at estimating distances. My scope has a gimmick that is supposed to help, but somehow the animals never want to stand still long enough, and at distances where it matters the 8X magnification doesn't allow for an accurate assessment.

Wonder why Santa didn't bring me one?

Adjusting the subtension on your scope reticle and shooting the top of the lower (thicker) reticle post will do the same thing as a ballistric reticle. Only minor problem is you have to reduce power the farther out you go, but to 500 yards or so, not a big deal. Try the top point of the lower post at 7x (on a typical 3-9x with duplex reticle) and it will get you very close to 400 yards - fine tune from there.

Originally Posted by WkndWarrior

I'd like to be able to reach out to 500 eventually. Would you agree a 4-12 x 40 could be used up to that range?

Yup.