Bad experience with Winchester Dynapoint 22 hp ammo

[Spartikus]

I read about a couple of threads on this this year and wasn't sure if it was just flukes. I was at the range with a box of the 500 winchester bulk .22lr and 10 rounds in blew out a round in the chamber. Hot lead all over my heads and down the barrel.

Wont buy another round of winchester again. Lost my business forever. Good thing it wasn't my son shooting and we all had safety glasses.

Terrible quality control and unsafe practices that company should be shut the hell down.

[Yycadm]

I've never cared for Winchester .22LR because it's very inconsistent. I have never found it performed well...groups are all over the place, lots of misfires, velocities not consistent, etc.

Quality control on .22LR bulk is generally not terribly good, but in my experience Winchester has always been "last ditch" ammunition for me. I know some folks like it...I've just never had much luck with it

[Unregistered user]

I found QC in any brand of bulk rimfire is second rate.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

I read about a couple of threads on this this year and wasn't sure if it was just flukes. I was at the range with a box of the 500 winchester bulk .22lr and 10 rounds in blew out a round in the chamber. Hot lead all over my heads and down the barrel.

Wont buy another round of winchester again. Lost my business forever. Good thing it wasn't my son shooting and we all had safety glasses.

Terrible quality control and unsafe practices that company should be shut the hell down.

Fine, here's my take on this: As I've bolded, you appear to have keyboard studder. Then a little further on, it would also appear that you have several heads. See, you too can screw up. But, Winchester who makes 22 ammunition by the tonnage most certainly isn't allowed a QC faux pas.

And certainly, given the current shortages of 22 ammunition, gun powder, primers, etc. which we all experience, your death wish of Winchester (firearm manufacturer as well) would certainly be helpful....?

Before condemning them, take a look back at your spelling, and lack of proper punctuation and show me perfection. Perhaps give your Head(S) a shake and check your firearm for a variety of possible malfunctions.

[bigjohncdn]

I have had QC issues with Winchester Wildcat bulk ammo before. It would not feed reliably in my Ruger mklll 22/45 hunter or my 64B.

The issue turned out to be loose bullets. Some rounds were so loose that as the round began to feed the bullet moved out of alignment enough to jam before entering the chamber. This was about three years ago. If they still have the same issue they should be condemned. I notified them when I had the problem and sent the remaining ammo to them.

Their reaction was to send me (in Canada) a $5 gift certificate with an expiry date one month away, only good in the continental USA.

Last time I purchased anything Winchester.

[fish gunner]

Go through a box of 500 every fes weeks never had that issue . Poor grouping yes odd misfire yes. Use hp npw 1"higher poi at 100 yrds. have yellow jackets for when a mag pie just needs to be quiet.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Terrible quality control and unsafe practices that company should be shut the hell down.

Lets shut them all down it will be safer

[elkhunter11]

I have seen issues with Remington, and Federal bulk ammunition as well. If you demand a higher grade of 22 ammunition, then don't buy the cheap bulk ammunition. As far as the round that went off and sprayed lead, it sounds like the round went off with the bolt not fully closed. which is just as likely the result of a rifle issue, as the ammunition. Is it a semi auto rifle? How many rounds since it was cleaned, before the incident? I have seen this happen with a Mossberg semi auto. The case ruptured, and the bullet was lodged in the barrel.

[Dick284]

If you are intent on buying the cheapest or lower end all the time, and then whine because it fails to meet your high standards..............................
Guess what?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have seen issues with Remington, and Federal bulk ammunition as well. If you demand a higher grade of 22 ammunition, then don't buy the cheap bulk ammunition. As far as the round that went off and sprayed lead, it sounds like the round went off with the bolt not fully closed. which is just as likely the result of a rifle issue, as the ammunition. Is it a semi auto rifle? How many rounds since it was cleaned, before the incident? I have seen this happen with a Mossberg semi auto. The case ruptured, and the bullet was lodged in the barrel.

I agree. Have seen that sort of thing happen with many manufacturers product, not just the bulk stuff but also some of the good stuff. If the OP had molten lead fly out his action I'd be more inclined to think there was a malfunction of his rifles action where the cartridge stove piped or otherwise was not completely in the chamber causing the rim to get impacted and detonated before the action was closed and locked. Even with defective ammo and a case rupture I can see hot powder escaping but there is very little chance of the lead slug melting and escaping a properly closed and locked up action.

[Unregistered user]

Hard to beat Winchester T22 for accuracy in any of my rimfires.

[Spartikus]

Wow great to see all the "experts" weighing in with their raging assumptions on how inept me and my rifle are. Great work.

The intent of this post was to inform other people so their 11 year old child wouldn't get sprayed with molten lead, wear safety glasses and use a better quality ammo.

My rifle is a 10/22. It gets cleaned every single time it comes back from the range. As do all of my rifles. The lead shot out of the end of the gun and hit the target 50 yds away creating a shotgun pattern on the target. I was using a splatter target so my son could watch his hits better and learn to shoot better and it looked like it had been hit with a 12 gauge.

The molten lead hitting my hands came from the lead splattering down through the cracks between the magazine and the rifle. I do not know what would cause a bullet on a .22 cartridge to disintegrate, I am not an ammo manufacturer or expert. All I know is that can cause serious injury and thank God for safety glasses.

I brushed the barrel afterwards and did a full inspection of the magazine and chamber. After a cleaning the rifle continued to function fine and cycled my other ammo fine.

To those that found my post a little reactionary, fair enough. When your 11 year old is learning to safely handle firearms and that sh*t happens see how you react

I wont be buying Winchester ammo. My prerogative.

[blackpowderrlw]

was that ammo part of their recall a while back ?

[Spartikus]

I did not hear that black. I'll go check into that recall. Thanks for the info.

[catnthehat]

I'm not sure if it is a rifle issue or an ammo issue but all the examples I have ever seen involved lead building up from being shaved on chambering except when there was a head space issue then the brand didn't matter.
I had some silhouette ammo a few years back that split dome cases.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

The molten lead hitting my hands came from the lead splattering down through the cracks between the magazine and the rifle. I do not know what would cause a bullet on a .22 cartridge to disintegrate, I am not an ammo manufacturer or expert. All I know is that can cause serious injury and thank God for safety glasses.

As was previously posted, in order for this to happen, the bolt could not have been fully closed when the firearm was discharged. If the bolt was fully closed, the debris could not have escaped the action to strike the shooter. As to why the rifle went off with the bolt not fully closed, it could have been an ammunition issue, or there could have been some debris preventing the bolt from fully closing, or the firearm itself could have malfunctioned.

I asked if the firearm was a semi auto, because I have personally witnessed this type of incident with a semi auto 22, and I have heard of several more occurring with semi auto rimfire firearms. With a semi auto action, the shooter doesn't actually close the action, for each shot, so there is much more possibility of the action not being fully closed when the firearm discharges. There used to be several semi auto firearms produced in 22 mag, 17Mach2, and 17HMR, but most of them were discontinued because of incidents where the firearm discharged with the bolt not fully closed.

When it comes right down to it, the type of incident described, can happen with a semi auto rimfire, with any brand of ammunition, and for that reason, the semi auto rimfire is not nearly as safe for the shooter, as an action where the shooter must fully close the action to allow the firearm to be discharged.

[Spartikus]

I really clean the chamber quite well when I clean the gun Cat, but that said where would that build up happen?

My chamber cleaning process usually involves a wipe down with hoppes cleaning solution and using a brush in my fingers to clean the powder out of the corners. Certainly not a scrubbing but a quick brush out of the corners and edges.

Is there something better I should be doing in the chamber that might alleviate the chance of this happening again?

PS: I don't generally oil the chamber area of the 10/22 but I do put a bit of gun oil on/around the bolt.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Wow great to see all the "experts" weighing in with their raging assumptions on how inept me and my rifle are. Great work.

The intent of this post was to inform other people so their 11 year old child wouldn't get sprayed with molten lead, wear safety glasses and use a better quality ammo.

My rifle is a 10/22. It gets cleaned every single time it comes back from the range. As do all of my rifles. The lead shot out of the end of the gun and hit the target 50 yds away creating a shotgun pattern on the target. I was using a splatter target so my son could watch his hits better and learn to shoot better and it looked like it had been hit with a 12 gauge.

The molten lead hitting my hands came from the lead splattering down through the cracks between the magazine and the rifle. I do not know what would cause a bullet on a .22 cartridge to disintegrate, I am not an ammo manufacturer or expert. All I know is that can cause serious injury and thank God for safety glasses.

I brushed the barrel afterwards and did a full inspection of the magazine and chamber. After a cleaning the rifle continued to function fine and cycled my other ammo fine.

To those that found my post a little reactionary, fair enough. When your 11 year old is learning to safely handle firearms and that sh*t happens see how you react

I wont be buying Winchester ammo. My prerogative.

It can be very disappointing to post on forums like this and get the results from the "internet experts" that you have experienced. However don't let that deter you as this kind of information is likely to save an eye or two if it prompts people to use safety glasses. As well you should report this incident to Winchester unless it was ammo included in this M22 ammo recall.http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...r_recalls.html

There was a thread, earlier this summer, that was posted by some one who had a problem with Winchester 333 or 555 in the white bulk packs. He posted a picture of the spent case showing a ruptured rim that resulted in hot gasses being sprayed back around the bolt face. At least one other person, besides myself, posted that we had the same thing happen and I talked to one other person that this happened to. Winchester has been made aware of this problem and hopefully will do something about it. However it is not only Winchester 22 ammo or even cheap bulk rim fire ammo that have problems. I have seen the case head blown off of Hornady 17 HMR factory ammo shot in the gopher patch under a hot sun. Last summer buddy could have lost an eye when my 17 Hornady Hornet blew a primer, under these same conditions, with factory ammo.

Rather than ridiculing us for reporting these incidents it would be much more productive if the "internet experts" would spread the word in the interest of safety.

[Spartikus]

Elk,

It is a SA 10/22. I hear what you are saying about the bolt not being closed properly but I question that being the source of the issue. Not saying it's not possible as I certainly don't inspect the position of the bolt with every round I fire.

For the bullet to explode in the chamber like that and basically desitegrate sending 50 tiny pieces of molten lead at the target and a bunch more down the mag it sounds to me like the round was either hot or the bullet itself failed. I am no ammo expert and I hear your logic but suffice to say when an SA ejects a round, the bolt is being thrust back by the gases from the shell going off. If it was a hot load and/or the bullet did not stay intact at discharge that would cause lead to basically explode back into the chamber as the bolt went back.

All that being said, I am no expert and I won't say that is certainly not possible. I will stand by the fact that my gun is cleaned every time out and I check the action pretty thoroughly with my son before starting to shoot just to get him in the habit of making sure the weapon is functioning correctly prior to use.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Spartikus]

Thanks LC. I don't expect or ask everyone to agree with my thoughts but ya seems like a lot of posts I have read this year on Winchester 22 LR going sideways.

Anyways I never specifically mentioned the ammo. It was the 40gr .22lr HP. Winchester Dynapoint .22LR HP in the 500 round white box.

It does not appear to be part of the recall and although I looked very hard for the spent casing to show Winchester I couldn't find it.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Elk,

It is a SA 10/22. I hear what you are saying about the bolt not being closed properly but I question that being the source of the issue. Not saying it's not possible as I certainly don't inspect the position of the bolt with every round I fire.

For the bullet to explode in the chamber like that and basically desitegrate sending 50 tiny pieces of molten lead at the target and a bunch more down the mag it sounds to me like the round was either hot or the bullet itself failed. I am no ammo expert and I hear your logic but suffice to say when an SA ejects a round, the bolt is being thrust back by the gases from the shell going off. If it was a hot load and/or the bullet did not stay intact at discharge that would cause lead to basically explode back into the chamber as the bolt went back.

All that being said, I am no expert and I won't say that is certainly not possible. I will stand by the fact that my gun is cleaned every time out and I check the action pretty thoroughly with my son before starting to shoot just to get him in the habit of making sure the weapon is functioning correctly prior to use.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sounds more like the cartridge was not fully chambered when it detonated.
The gun could be as much to blame as the cartidge and not all that uncommon for semi autos reguardless of ammo type.
Ruger does not recommend the use of Stingers because of this.
Because of the rather dirty powder residue even a well maintained semi 22 can have issues.
Was you clip stock?
Uncle Mikes clips give me trouble at times.
Glad you were using eye protection, that's always a good idea.

[barsik]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As was previously posted, in order for this to happen, the bolt could not have been fully closed when the firearm was discharged. If the bolt was fully closed, the debris could not have escaped the action to strike the shooter. As to why the rifle went off with the bolt not fully closed, it could have been an ammunition issue, or there could have been some debris preventing the bolt from fully closing, or the firearm itself could have malfunctioned.

I asked if the firearm was a semi auto, because I have personally witnessed this type of incident with a semi auto 22, and I have heard of several more occurring with semi auto rimfire firearms. With a semi auto action, the shooter doesn't actually close the action, for each shot, so there is much more possibility of the action not being fully closed when the firearm discharges. There used to be several semi auto firearms produced in 22 mag, 17Mach2, and 17HMR, but most of them were discontinued because of incidents where the firearm discharged with the bolt not fully closed.

When it comes right down to it, the type of incident described, can happen with a semi auto rimfire, with any brand of ammunition, and for that reason, the semi auto rimfire is not nearly as safe for the shooter, as an action where the shooter must fully close the action to allow the firearm to be discharged.

I agree with your post, but one aspect of the OP's statement was his examination of the target and finding a splatter, which is very unusual, leading me to guess that the previous round may have been a squib and the bullet may not have left the barrel. this may also explain why the case ruptured, because of the pressure of trying to get 2 bullets down the barrel. in any case good on the OP for wearing protective gear.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Thanks LC. I don't expect or ask everyone to agree with my thoughts but ya seems like a lot of posts I have read this year on Winchester 22 LR going sideways.

Anyways I never specifically mentioned the ammo. It was the 40gr .22lr HP. Winchester Dynapoint .22LR HP in the 500 round white box.

It does not appear to be part of the recall and although I looked very hard for the spent casing to show Winchester I couldn't find it.

I didn't recover the spent casing as I wasn't able to crawl around on the ground to look for it. I reported the incident to Winchester and they had me sent the remaining ammo back for inspection. I got 2, $10.00, vouchers to buy Winchester products wherever they are sold . I had already bought the last stuff available at the store as there was no other choice and you have to have ammo to shoot gophers.

You should report the incident as well.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by barsik

I agree with your post, but one aspect of the OP's statement was his examination of the target and finding a splatter, which is very unusual, leading me to guess that the previous round may have been a squib and the bullet may not have left the barrel. this may also explain why the case ruptured, because of the pressure of trying to get 2 bullets down the barrel. in any case good on the OP for wearing protective gear.

II have used the 22 shot cartridges, and at 20 yards, the pattern was so bad that I can't imagine even hitting a target at 50 yards. That in itself was a fluke. As to the lead spatter that hit the shooter, I wonder if what hit the OP was not just hot debris, as the lead should have gone the other way. The lead should have been driven away from the magazine; not towards it.

[Dog hunter]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Fine, here's my take on this: As I've bolded, you appear to have keyboard studder. Then a little further on, it would also appear that you have several heads. See, you too can screw up. But, Winchester who makes 22 ammunition by the tonnage most certainly isn't allowed a QC faux pas.

And certainly, given the current shortages of 22 ammunition, gun powder, primers, etc. which we all experience, your death wish of Winchester (firearm manufacturer as well) would certainly be helpful....?

Before condemning them, take a look back at your spelling, and lack of proper punctuation and show me perfection. Perhaps give your Head(S) a shake and check your firearm for a variety of possible malfunctions.

Thanks for the grammar lesson Mrs. Gitrdun we love youre "class"

[32-40win]

When you think about the millions of rounds of ammo the various mfgrs build, and the processes and tooling adjustments and wear & tear involved, it is no small wonder we don't have more ammo issues. Add in gun idiosyncracies and people to the mix, on the production and the end user scenario.
I can't think of a brand, I haven't heard of, having an issue at one time or another over the years. The mfgrs don't like it, the users don't like it, but, we all know it can and will happen. Brass, powder, primer and bullet and gun issues happen. As long as we inform them of an issue, they have a chance to correct a process or recall if necessary. Many times the root cause can't be determined, gun, ammo or human error, there isn't enough evidence left to say for sure.
Not sure this incident has enough evidence to blame the ammo completely either. There seems to be a chance it was the gun wasn't in battery, and I have questions in my mind about the accuracy of the molten lead description.
And at this point, we'll never know for sure.

[Unregistered user]

10-22 can go a long time between cleanings and still function just fine, I'll run a brick of Remington Cyclone thru mine before I give it a clean and then give her a good scrub at the end of gopher season.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

I really clean the chamber quite well when I clean the gun Cat, but that said where would that build up happen?

My chamber cleaning process usually involves a wipe down with hoppes cleaning solution and using a brush in my fingers to clean the powder out of the corners. Certainly not a scrubbing but a quick brush out of the corners and edges.

Is there something better I should be doing in the chamber that might alleviate the chance of this happening again?

PS: I don't generally oil the chamber area of the 10/22 but I do put a bit of gun oil on/around the bolt.

The issue isn't whether or not the gun is clean to start with but whether or not a round or two got misaligned and some lead hit shaved off and was building up I. The chamber while you were shooting
That would be tight where the round gets started into the chamber
Cat

[bessiedog]

I posted about this here in 2010.

I had a2 3/4 bb shell jam in my shotgun an blow up at the breach.
Thank god the shot didn't hurt me , but I am partially deaf in one ear.

After researching g on various forums, I found out that Winchester has been stretched to the limit providing civilian rounds as the Olin Corp took on several military contracts.

After getting a medical exam and talking to their legal, then finally threatening them with the possibility if hiring a lawyer in Illinois to pursue a case, they settled out of court with me for selling me defective rounds that lacked reasonable QC.

I got some $$, a new 12g over under, and some extra .

Not sure I won.

But many US gun forums members responded to my inquiries re Winchester and their lack of QC with various ammo types. There were enough stories to convince me to stay away and pursue payback.

The OP has something here.

I will NOT buy Winchester ammo.

Hope others here are wiser now.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Dog hunter

Thanks for the grammar lesson Mrs. Gitrdun we love youre "class"

Well then, perhaps I should stand corrected. I'll start by saying that I am immensely pleased that Spartikus nor his son were injured, first and foremost, and kudos to them for wearing eye protection. My objection to this whole thing was this statement, as we do experience difficulties in acquiring the gear and components required to enjoy our shooting sports.

that company should be shut the hell down.