Jim Shockey Speaks on BC Grizzly Bear Ban

[elk396]

Originally Posted by chuck

What part of “hunting is a management tool” don’t you understand? Seriously. Hunting is not all about meat consumption either. There is more to it than that. Yes it’s part of it, but let’s not get caught up in that mind numbing vortex of eating everything you kill to be noble crap. It’s an ignorant approach that does not consider a bigger picture.

I don't think the guys that are posting their kills on Facebook are doing it with 'management' in mind, i think it's 'fill the trophy room ' in mind, that is what's causing the problems. That's what the 'antis' are seeing as socially unacceptable, to kill the biggest, strongest, best genetic trophy to stuff some styrofoam under it's hide and place it on your wall. That's what the antis don't like, they see that as ridiculous in this day and age. Like others have posted on here, they are unlikely to even taste a bite of the meat from that animal. That is what you will have trouble convincing an anti hunter the logical reasoning behind the kill. Why would you kill an animal to stuff it and hang it on your wall? A rutted 190" whitetail is rank, why not take a young deer? It's because you and I want the set of horns on it's head so we can send the pictures to all our friends and all over the web. It's called 'Bragging rights', very prevalent in the hunting community. How can you possibly convince an anti that that is socially acceptable in this day and age? You don't have to convince me, I have a house full of the stuff, but that's the mindset we are dealing with, it's just being prepared when confronted. Telling them it's 'your right' doesn't cut the mustard with them. You need to be able to convince that you are right.
I'm sure many of you on this forum witnessed the young bear with the injured hind leg somewhere down south of Calgary this fall. There was a nightly segment on CTV news tracking this bear, people tried to make a hut for it to live in, were outraged that it wasn't tranquilized and brought into a vet for surgery. Well, does anyone on here know how many hibernating bears are killed due to winter logging? It's thousands!!!!!! Not one anti up north marching down the logging roads or laying in from of a dozer that getting ready to drive over hibernating bears to mowe down trees to feed a pulp mill. Not one!!! They have absolutely no clue about wildlife or the management of it, but they are going to be the ones deciding it if we don't band together or be smart with what we share with everyone. The reason the antis aren't marching the logging roads is because they don' it's happening. So, if you think posting all the goods on Facebook doesn't matter and it's your right to continue to do so, I think you really don't get it.

[huntinstuff]

Im seeing a lot of truth in all sides of this discussion.

Probably one of the best threads here in a long time.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by pgavey

Have you guys say the lung shot moose some idiot posted on facebook with quarts of blood squirting from his mouth and nose. Why would anyone want to post something like that on a public site is so stupid.

Yup, the majority of people surfing facebook watching cute kitten videos, and pics of their friends and relatives children then something like that pops up on their screen they go emotional and are incensed, might as well post up a video of yourself torturing cute puppies or beating children. |The reaction is the same. That is all they see and they draw their conclusions about hunting and hunters from what they just watched. First impressions are hard to change. Millions and millions of people who are not exposed to hunting are seeing this and are stirred emotionally to hate hunting and hunters.

Hunters keep citing scientific management, ethics, conservation which is fine, but it is all undone when the general public sees this kind of stuff. Post a respectful picture of your dead animal and tell a story is fine, but posting on a public domain the slow execution by botched shots, panicked, frantic, bewildered animals dying slowly and painfully, spewing blood everywhere, add some play by play commentary about how much lead it soaked up, then add in the no class hooting, hollering, back slapping high five celebrating after its finally dead. It's like these videos are posted by idiots to directly offend anti hunters and alienate non hunters. Or are simply posted by stupid people who aren't intelligent enough to realize the damage they are doing. If your going to post videos on social media have some class, use some discretion and show some respect to the animal and consider who might be viewing it. Cripes most hunters don't even want to see that crap.

The anti hunting lobby doesn't have to spend money on producing shows and commercials showing baby seals being clubbed, animals caught in traps, wounded animals walking around golf courses with arrows stuck in them anymore. Hunters are now doing it for them and doing a better job of it.

[chinchaga07]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Im seeing a lot of truth in all sides of this discussion.

Probably one of the best threads here in a long time.

I agree that this thread is one of the best I have followed in a long time. People have expressed themselves with vigor and respect. I, however, have a sense that this is in fact what people against hunting want to happen. We are all part of a community, a hunting community. We are all drawn to the sport for one reason or another. The reasons are not all the same but the love of hunting is constant. We may not agree with each other for our reasons to hunt but we sure can all agree that we love to hunt. Social media has definitely impacted our community negatively (and not purposely by those who choose to post their accomplishments) but by groups who choose to slant the idea behind the posts.

As a community who loves our hunting, we should spend as much time battling back against those who want to disrupt it as we do arguing about who has the better reason for hunting in the first place.

End of my rant.

Long live hunting

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

We'll to me shooting your limit of geese and donating them, the next weekend out shooting your limit again, now that's wrong to me... Just don't hide behind donating because a person likes killing, that's wrong.

I agree 100%. Taking more than you need for yourself is wrong. If donating is one's thing then I must say that donating game is not very efficient. If one really wants to donate to the food bank or aid the poor, it would be better to not pull the trigger and not hunt and instead donate the funds saved to the food bank or the poor.

I have been offered birds by hunters who say they enjoy shooting them but hate cleaning and eating them.

[michaelmicallef]

It would be a blessing in disguise if Facebook just banned hunting pics altogether. I understand why some me people feel they have the right to post thier hunting pics online what I don't get is why they are willing to risk what they love by doing so.

[chinchaga07]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

It would be a blessing in disguise if Facebook just banned hunting pics altogether. I understand why some me people feel they have the right to post thier hunting pics online what I don't get is why they are willing to risk what they love by doing so.

I have seen many a pic of a first time hunter with a doe or a small buck posting their pic of their accomplishment yet no one on the other side of the hunting community is up in arms..perhaps it is because it is a young hunter and they don't want the stigma of bullying. In any event I too have seen some photos and videos that are probably better kept private. Some pics, in my opinion, lack respect for the animal harvested. But at the end of the day the argument is not with the individual posting, it should be with the individual or organization slanting these pics for ammo to reduce or even put an end to hunting. That is what needs to be focused on.

[covey ridge]

I have never figured out how to make hunting look good to anti hunting people. I do think that posting dead animal pictures on social media does nothing to promote hunting and in most cases just stirs the social pot. I think hunters like everyone else have a right to post what they want but it does nothing but throw their attitude in the face of those they will never convince. The dead animal pics may also be a turn off to non hunters who may not be anti and have not made up their mind yet.

[michaelmicallef]

Originally Posted by chinchaga07

I have seen many a pic of a first time hunter with a doe or a small buck posting their pic of their accomplishment yet no one on the other side of the hunting community is up in arms..perhaps it is because it is a young hunter and they don't want the stigma of bullying. In any event I too have seen some photos and videos that are probably better kept private. Some pics, in my opinion, lack respect for the animal harvested. But at the end of the day the argument is not with the individual posting, it should be with the individual or organization slanting these pics for ammo to reduce or even put an end to hunting. That is what needs to be focused on.

I agree but who is going to defend us. And if social media puts the final nail in the coffin for hunting what good will have come out having a screw you "antis" attitude. Sometimes "duck and cover" and "out of sight out of mind" works too you know. Controlling the urge to post on social media and standing up for our passion would be the best approach. I'm sure that many people that are upset by hunting Pics and are motivated in the fight to eliminate hunting would have been content to go about with there own life instead of messing with ours. Just for example would people all the theft that is occurring if they "the media" and "social media" didn't mention it happening. It doesn't mean it's not happening.
Not saying to be afraid or threatened by people opposed to hunting JUST BE SMARTER.

[michaelmicallef]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I have never figured out how to make hunting look good to anti hunting people. I do think that posting dead animal pictures on social media does nothing to promote hunting and in most cases just stirs the social pot. I think hunters like everyone else have a right to post what they want but it does nothing but throw their attitude in the face of those they will never convince. The dead animal pics may also be a turn off to non hunters who may not be anti and have not made up their mind yet.

Bingo! Some people get it.

[BuckCuller]

[QUOTE=Hillbilly 12;3702137]

Originally Posted by chuck

What part of “hunting is a management tool” don’t you understand? Seriously. Hunting is not all about meat consumption either. There is more to it than that. Yes it’s part of it, but let’s not get caught up in that mind numbing vortex of eating everything you kill to be noble crap. It’s an ignorant approach that does not consider a bigger picture.[/

If it's not for meat, what's it for? I'm pretty sure the tv shows are not doing it for management, if so stop recording, but no it's for kill shots, egos and social media. I'm not bashing hunting, I just said was to stop filling egos and posting it all like a person is 10. Management can take place without tv shows and social media. Lots wouldn't hunt if they couldn't post it to get compliments hence, not meat hunting

You know I do more trophy hunting these days and as a result I am less successful with filling the freezer which I don’t really need the meat because if I can afford the tags gas and equipment I can definitely afford beef.
But I like trophy hunting because I can be more selective and watch animals do there thing and enjoy nature.
It gives me more experience to hone my skills and if I do get an animal I have no problem sharing with friends and family because they share with me if I am empty handed. It’s kind of a sense of community.
Management plays a part in how I hunt also if the population is way up and suplimental tags are offered then I will take an extra doe for meat then hold out for big boy. It’s better than the government shooting them out of choppers.
As for the TV shows that’s what the shows are for entertainment showing people wild places and big critters the get the imaginary juices flowing. That and advertising to sell stuff not to mention give people an opportunity to make a living doing something they love. With out hunting shows I bet there would be a lot of people that wouldn’t have the adventures of going hunting in truly wild places like the arctic, New Zealand, Yukon, Africa and Alaska.
I don’t post pictures much on social media just one or two on AO but that’s not because I’m afraid of social media. It’s because I absolutely hate social media, this is as social media as I get.
And frankly I love seeing pics of people with there big old gnarly whitetail, muley Deer, moose, elk, sheep, caribou, you name it. It makes me feel good to see these wonderful animals are still out there.
I don’t think the majority of people posting pics are hunting only to have a look at me moment but rather are very proud of what they have accomplished and want to share it with other like minded individuals.
I will not be ashamed of any trophy animal that I kill and most will be hung up high so when I’m old and weary I can look back upon fond memories and friendships, every time I look at one of those majestic creatures hung on my wall like the Mona Lisa.
As for me I enjoy my time in the woods and that’s just how it going to be until I can’t do it anymore or the laws won’t allow it.

[Bub]

Originally Posted by chinchaga07

I have seen many a pic of a first time hunter with a doe or a small buck posting their pic of their accomplishment yet no one on the other side of the hunting community is up in arms..perhaps it is because it is a young hunter and they don't want the stigma of bullying. In any event I too have seen some photos and videos that are probably better kept private. Some pics, in my opinion, lack respect for the animal harvested. But at the end of the day the argument is not with the individual posting, it should be with the individual or organization slanting these pics for ammo to reduce or even put an end to hunting. That is what needs to be focused on.

I agree, some pics and videos should not be posted anywhere, or even kept for the private record for that matter, because they are, for the lack of a better word, embarrassing, or should be anyway, to the person who posted them. However, those pics and videos should be slanted by the hunters just like anyone else, in my opinion. At the end of the day, those photos and videos are more of an outlier and they are not what an overwhelming majority of hunters post daily. Those "hunts" are not what anyone wants to see happening in the field, not hunters, not antis, no one, really.

Personally, I do not see a point to posting my hunting photos on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or whatever. My reasoning is that most of the people who will see them have no desire in seeing such photographs, so why bother. On the other hand, forums like this one are perfectly fine because that is why people are here in the first place, to share experiences, to learn, etc; in other words, people here are actually interested in this same activity and want to read those stories and see those photos.

As for hunting for the head... I think it is wrong, but we are all entitled to our own opinions. And I really like what the guy said a page ago or two calling the "donation" a legal way to dispose of meat (or something along those lines). Yet, I myself hunt for something extra special, and that extra being the rack, until can I afford it, money wise and time wise. Once I get close to or out of bounds of that affordable range, I shoot something to put in the freezer because at the end of the day it is the meat I am after.

[michaelmicallef]

To be honest I was going to post some pics here a couple of times. But I thought what the heck for. It's not like you guys haven't seen an elk or a deer before. But I have sent pics to friends after taking a nice buck or bull.

[Bub]

Have your friends seen a deer or an elk before?

You can also add a word or two with your pics. I would read it.

The thread I enjoyed the most this season was called something like "How is the season going?".

Edit: Maybe I am crazy and it was called something completely different, but I cannot find that thread via search.

[michaelmicallef]

I should have said friends that hunt. I'm guilty of bragging.

[Bub]

I bet you an overwhelming majority on this forum hunts as well

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

And on the other side of the fence....

[DJS]

Just going to throw this out there...when you look around and see that there are as many people who hunt now a days I think it's reasonable to say that hunting is very popular. Agree? If so I would argue that social media, TV, magazines have helped make it what it is today. Yes, people pass on the love for hunting from generation to generation but there are people who get into hunting these days because of what they are seeing on facebook and on the TV. As a previous poster said, people watch the shows and look at the pictures. They see the excitement of the hunters who are successful and in alot of cases that excitement, that feeling of being successful or unsuccessful for that matter is contagious. I agree 100% that some pictures and some videos could be shown in better taste, no question but to say we need to get rid of all of it won't help our cause. We need to promote it. We need advertise it. We need to do things to keep it socially acceptable.

[Hillbilly 12]

The kind of tv shoes that are the worst IMO is this long range hunting craze. People watch these shots at extreme distances ( only long shot kills that never wounded an animal of course, only kills) and think they can grab a gun and go do the same and just end up wounding game. I think it's an ego thing also to post that you shot it at this extreme distance. Isn't the point of hunting to get fairly close to your game. Like I've said before, a lot of things are happening just to run and post it, because that's COOL.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

The kind of tv shoes that are the worst IMO is this long range hunting craze. People watch these shots at extreme distances ( only long shot kills that never wounded an animal of course, only kills) and think they can grab a gun and go do the same and just end up wounding game. I think it's an ego thing also to post that you shot it at this extreme distance. Isn't the point of hunting to get fairly close to your game. Like I've said before, a lot of things are happening just to run and post it, because that's COOL.

Ok, I agree with you on that. I too don't like the long range stuff. In my opinion if you can only get 800 yards up on an animal I don't think you've done your job as a hunter. However, I'd be willing to bet that there are at least the same amount of hunters out there who shoot short distances and would animals as well never to find them. So we need to watch where we're pointing fingers. You think meat hunting and short distance shots are "cool" and that's ok. Others think that long range hunting is "cool" and thats ok too.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

Ok, I agree with you on that. I too don't like the long range stuff. In my opinion if you can only get 800 yards up on an animal I don't think you've done your job as a hunter. However, I'd be willing to bet that there are at least the same amount of hunters out there who shoot short distances and would animals as well never to find them. So we need to watch where we're pointing fingers. You think meat hunting and short distance shots are "cool" and that's ok. Others think that long range hunting is "cool" and thats ok too.

I think that closer shots are more doable and ethical. At longer distances you have a higher percentage of missing or wounding without the chance of a follow up shot 150 opposed to 850. Tv has led some down the wrong path, there wouldn't be this huge craze of extreme everything if there was no posting and bragging. It should be fathers teach your children to hunt, not watch some program and think that's easy. There is something to be said about the modest person who does it for the love of it, and not for the posting fame. That's my oppinion.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

I think that closer shots are more doable and ethical. At longer distances you have a higher percentage of missing or wounding without the chance of a follow up shot 150 opposed to 850. Tv has led some down the wrong path, there wouldn't be this huge craze of extreme everything if there was no posting and bragging. It should be fathers teach your children to hunt, not watch some program and think that's easy. There is something to be said about the modest person who does it for the love of it, and not for the posting fame. That's my oppinion.

While I disagree with your statement for the most part, I'll not push that issue. But I'd really like to know if you think hunting would be as popular today if we didn't have things such as hunting TV shows and people posting to social media? Would we have stores like Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops here in Alberta? Next I'd ask that if we got rid of all the media outlet avenues, stopped posting pictures to fb, banned hunting TV shows, do you honestly think that the people against hunting would leave us alone?

[leeelmer]

Most of the stuff put up on social media ****es someone off.
I hate and delete friends that only post crap about there home business on facebook. I am tired of seeing Rodan and Fields and Thrive and mary kay and everything else every bloody day.
We the same can be said for someone that is against hunting.
Except I don't go out and say ban all home businesses, i just don't look for it and don't keep people on my friends list that do that. The antis all they do is scream and yell when they see a post of a dead animal.
Even the posts about Steve with his cougar, he even ate the bloody thing and people still screamed about it.
I have hunted cats before and have a few mounted, sure as hell would not eat one, but that's just me. I did it to get rid of a apex predator that we have to many of.
There is no way to tell a anti that trophy hunting is good, unless you call it game management, and it is. Because you watch all these shows and they shoot the deer, and the host said well we are going to leave that deer overnight and find it in the morning. Well I can tell you in a warm fall, there is no way that meat is any good after sitting all night, all those guys care about is the horns. Well thats fine, but you cant say its not trophy hunting.
But you can change the dynamic if it is explained as game management tool as well as getting a nice rack to mount..
Also we will never explain logic to people that are crying about game should not be hunted ever, they are not thinking with any logic. They don't even deal in any facts.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

While I disagree with your statement for the most part, I'll not push that issue. But I'd really like to know if you think hunting would be as popular today if we didn't have things such as hunting TV shows and people posting to social media? Would we have stores like Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops here in Alberta? Next I'd ask that if we got rid of all the media outlet avenues, stopped posting pictures to fb, banned hunting TV shows, do you honestly think that the people against hunting would leave us alone?

Yes, before we had tv hunting shows, I'm pretty sure there were still hunting stores around, my grandfather somehow managed to buy a gun and shells and go hunting without Jim Shockeys face on tv! Yes the less people see of hunting and bragging about kills the better.... Hence the latest news hunting story... I think it would leave us alone more.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Yes, before we had tv hunting shows, I'm pretty sure there were still hunting stores around, my grandfather somehow managed to buy a gun and shells and go hunting without Jim Shockeys face on tv! Yes the less people see of hunting and bragging about kills the better.... Hence the latest news hunting story... I think it would leave us alone more.

And I think your wrong. Jim Shockey has done more to promote hunting in the last 5 years than most of us will do in a lifetime.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

And I think your wrong.

Yeah nobody hunted before tv. We have lost the very core of the sport with posting and bragging, because that's what social media is.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Yeah nobody hunted before tv. We have lost the very core of the sport with posting and bragging, because that's what social media is.

No on ever said that there was no hunting before TV. What I'm saying is that since TV the sport has expanded big time. It's drawn in people who may not ever have gotten involved with it. More and more people are applying for draws, buying tags. You can call the "hunting core" what ever you want but like it or not, the more people we attract to hunting the better off we will be.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

And I think your wrong. Jim Shockey has done more to promote hunting in the last 5 years than most of us will do in a lifetime.

For his personal gain and tv, you have to look a little deeper.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

No on ever said that there was no hunting before TV. What I'm saying is that since TV the sport has expanded big time. It's drawn in people who may not ever have gotten involved with it. More and more people are applying for draws, buying tags. You can call the "hunting core" what ever you want but like it or not, the more people we attract to hunting the better off we will be.

Wrong, if you attract the wrong people to your group, what have you gained?, nothin you've lost.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Wrong, if you attract the wrong people to your group, what have you gained?, nothin you've lost.

So you don't want to see the number of people who hunt increase either?