Sheep hunters and predators

[bigbaddad]

Originally Posted by mntmanpick

No need to increase fees just use all the money from the ministers tags isn't that what its for. You can hunt wolves all around for free and few hunters take cats where the sheep are. Hunters need to realize we are the only predators specializing on male sheep so if the majority are not prepared to hunt mature sheep 8+ years don't expect the quality and quantity of rams to change without changes in regulations.

Absolutely!

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[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by nube

WB Yes I think sheep numbers in some areas are having issues. I know K counrty where I killed mine last week they all seem fine in that area. Lots of food and parks and not one wolf track seen or cougar track. Ewes have lambs and all seems well.

I can think of four valleys in the south end of k country where we've seen wolves or come across loads of tracks - including cougar. The grizz seem to leave them alone when I see them together.

I don't think predators are the only thing worth sheep hunters attention - more controlled burns would up the productivity of habitat for all ungulates. Or hiking and smoking.

I'd pay a little more for a license but let's not get crazy here. Hunting should be for everyone and not just those with better bank balances.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by LKILR

How about we all take a year off hunting sheep. It seems to me that humans are the number one predator when it comes to sheep.

not even close single cougars have wiped out entire herds on differnt ranges over the years

[normstad]

Originally Posted by lead chucker

I also would contribute to an independent experienced biologist.but not a gov't funded venture that would turn out like the grizzly study were by fudging numbers becomes common practice in order to make a career out of it.

Who's going to pay for it and how?

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by BackPackHunter

It’s ok, a lot of people are very bad at math
Doesn’t mean your a bad person


I don’t want to pay the government anymore then I have to.
I’d rather see sheep hunters get together and shoot every predator with out the government involved.
I can’t even get behind the WSF anymore , I Question a lot of where that money is going,

When I’m in sheep country I kill any sheep eater on site except for G bears
If I seen a bear activity hunting sheep, I’d probably kill it too,

1 year I tracked a cougar for miles before he found a wind blown spot on the mtn to hind his tracks, and lost me, I planned to put an accubond in his dome.

A wolf would do the same to a coyote or a cougar, bears kills other bears too. We are a part of nature also, predators kill other predators when they can because they have competing interest.
Shhhhh.

[slickwilly]

No wonder the explorers reported how few sheep their were back in the day. No brave hunters were out to control the predators! How did those poor sheep ever survive without us?

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

No wonder the explorers reported how few sheep their were back in the day. No brave hunters were out to control the predators! How did those poor sheep ever survive without us?

Weird or what?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

No wonder the explorers reported how few sheep their were back in the day. No brave hunters were out to control the predators! How did those poor sheep ever survive without us?

People have been managing wildlife and habitat in North America LONG before Europeans came here.


Ever heard of baleen wolf killers.... it works on cats and bears too.

Those old Indians were firebugs.... they knew what they were doing.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

People have been managing wildlife and habitat in North America LONG before Europeans came here.


Ever heard of baleen wolf killers.... it works on cats and bears too.

Those old Indians were firebugs.... they knew what they were doing.

I know plenty about FN management, I would love to see more habitat work. Just the guys who point to the last 80 years of low predator populations and act like their return is the apocalypse drive me a bit bonkers.

[Scopithorne]

I think the thought of raising the cost of a sheep licences is obsurd. To think the goverment would actually use that money to fund preditor control, prescribed burns, or further studies by biologists is laughable. Sheep numbers in this province has doubled since the seventies, thats what they will say. I do agree that preditor control is a huge issue facing the mountain wmus espically but i feel it is ultimatly going to be up to hunting and trapping community to do the best we can in this day and age no goverment would publicly acknowledge there is a problem and if they did they would point their finger in our direction long before they would admit preditors are to blame. They refuse to admit that they have no idea how many grizleys are in the province. Look to the yaha and how that has been managed. Suffield is another example of how they seem to wait until it is to late to react.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

People have been managing wildlife and habitat in North America LONG before Europeans came here.


Ever heard of baleen wolf killers.... it works on cats and bears too.

Those old Indians were firebugs.... they knew what they were doing.

Pretty sure there were not many baleen sources anywhere in Alberta.

[CF8889]

I don't think he was saying FNs were using whale bone to kill wolves in what is now Alberta 300years ago... just that "predator control" isn't a brand new thing...

[elk09]

human expansion is the number one treat to all wildlife - have seen my best elk hunting areas fade away - that will not end especially where money is concerned - I'm just living the dream while I can

[Mr. Dynamite]

First response before reading the other comments:

How much was raised "to better the herds" off the sale of minister's tags that were used in Cadomin over the years? How was that all blown and not put to use bettering the herd? Why did they let vegetation encroachment/overgrazing/ increased predators and all the other avoidable factors lead to the decline of that reliable cash cow that continued to yearly bring in astonishing amounts of funds that should have been put to use for bettering the herd? If they were concerned in even the slightest about bettering the herd, then that area should have been manicured to continue to produce world record Rams just to bring in top rates for special tags...kinda like they are doing in some areas of the states, where the Cadomin sheep genetics were sent... Sending away alberta's resources to let other countries make money off of it, nothing new.

So rather than subjecting each of us to an involuntary tax "for the greater good" of bettering the sheep herd, why not let select individuals raise that money off desirable tags which they want to purchase because they know they will be hunting a prime zone where they may land the next world record. I would rather some one who wants to pay it be the one who gives that money, rather than someone like myself, who just wants to have a tag to use as an excuse to buy way too much expensive gear and spend time in the mountains at the end of summer.

Seriously, let this overpriced tag idea die! Where did all the money from the years of minister's tags go, and what makes anyone think that the money gained from overpriced general ram tags would be spent with any better long term value?

[nube]

I think that is the problem Mr. Dynamite! Any funds from our licenses or sale of wildlife goes into general revenue to build a bridge in Montreal for all we know. I think very little funds are getting back to the use to protect and grow wildlife numbers.
Now imagine if we did have full use of those funds and any others we made!
Heck even from the very few on this forum who would be open to the thought of an increase in pay for a tag we could have gone out and wiped out a real big pile of wolves in a few areas already!

[RZR]

Originally Posted by nube

Now imagine if we did have full use of those funds and any others we made!
Heck even from the very few on this forum who would be open to the thought of an increase in pay for a tag we could have gone out and wiped out a real big pile of wolves in a few areas already!

Spoken like a true trapper. you want someone to fund your trapping business.

[elk09]

if we want wildlife numbers to increase and in general hunting to be sustainable and get better then the # 1 priority should be purchasing land. Good land is forever.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by nube

I think that is the problem Mr. Dynamite! Any funds from our licenses or sale of wildlife goes into general revenue to build a bridge in Montreal for all we know. I think very little funds are getting back to the use to protect and grow wildlife numbers.
Now imagine if we did have full use of those funds and any others we made!
Heck even from the very few on this forum who would be open to the thought of an increase in pay for a tag we could have gone out and wiped out a real big pile of wolves in a few areas already!

Sounds like you are not aware of the difference between what the federal government is responsible for and what the province is. Why would you think license revenues would in any way pay for a bridge in Montreal?

[CF8889]

Originally Posted by nube

I think that is the problem Mr. Dynamite! Any funds from our licenses or sale of wildlife goes into general revenue to build a bridge in Montreal for all we know. I think very little funds are getting back to the use to protect and grow wildlife numbers.!

A quick search shows that less then %25 of hunting licence sales goes into general revenue. A good chunk %40-%50 goes directly to the ACA

http://albertaregulations.ca/hunting...amemanage.html

[Lr1000]

I’m all for having trophy tags such as sheep cost more and money going into direct conservation of such animal. However with the current government this will not happen. It will get lost in the black hole of dedt and we will be told otherwise.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lr1000

I’m all for having trophy tags such as sheep cost more and money going into direct conservation of such animal. However with the current government this will not happen. It will get lost in the black hole of dedt and we will be told otherwise.

I'm all for having "Trophy" tags eliminated. And happy to say so does F&W.
The end of "trophy" hunting in Alberta is near.


Lots of dreaming going on here.
Has anyone noticed that ALL of our stakeholder interactions with F&W are focused on Hunter Management?

There is a disconnect between biologist and F&W Policy that is rooted in bureaucracy.

Cost of tags, direction of funding, management actions, accountability... all of this is not possible UNTIL the separation of Wildlife biologists and Wildlife/hunting Policy managers is closed by legislation.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by normstad

Pretty sure there were not many baleen sources anywhere in Alberta.

Shows what you know.

I've seen them. Know people who's elders used them, locally.

Indians were hard on predators. Both to keep their kids safe and to increase their food supply.

Point is, this is the first time in millennia that predator control is passe'....

Originally Posted by slickwilly

I know plenty about FN management, I would love to see more habitat work. Just the guys who point to the last 80 years of low predator populations and act like their return is the apocalypse drive me a bit bonkers.

Have you looked over the recent harvest stats for elk in the 400's?

Most wmu's are now at an emergency level of reduced hunting levels.
Absolute minimum of tags issued without closing the seasons.

The mountains ARE seeing an apocalypse.


This is not new. Lewis and Clarke nearly starved because they ended up in a vast wildlife wasteland.
Predators had killed EVERYTHING!
Completely Natural, but still apocalyptic.....

[nube]

Originally Posted by RZR

Spoken like a true trapper. you want someone to fund your trapping business.

lol My trapping doesn't need to be funded by anyone for me to continue. Proven that in the past with all the work I have done killing wolves with very little in return for compensation and really not worth the time and money put into it. But I do it for fun, and also because it needs to be done.

It is interesting to me that some understand the situation we are in with out management and our sheep herds. It could be a lot worse I know that but why is it we want to sit idly by and not try to find ways to enhance our sheep herds?
To me it's better to be proactive than reactive but what do I know!
Sure is nice watching how some things are run in the USA in some areas and the sheep they are harvesting.