Acceptable Wingshooting Kill Percentage

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I dont think it is elitism at all. We have so called hunters questioning the opinions of some of the top ranked shooters in Alberta. If you don't know the real names behind the user ids of guys like elk hunter11, covey ridge cowtown bill and brianedward you should maybe do a little research on 95 plus ranked percentage shooters in alberta/ I know it is only clays ranking but I have seen a couple of them take a natural triple on rising huns or pheasant and the odd time a quad. Talk is cheap but the clays ranking as well as hunting success proves ability.

The guy's you listed are 95% shooters? I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just having a hard time finding the stats. The #1 ranked SC shooter in Canada is @ 88.09% according to CNSCA web page. There's a few in Trap and Skeet but I'm having a hard time finding that many shooters ranked that high. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

Again not looking for a fight, but can you explain a quad to me. Are you talking 4 birds in a row, or a true quad?

I think most people think they are better then they are and hold unrealistic expectations on others.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I dont think it is elitism at all. We have so called hunters questioning the opinions of some of the top ranked shooters in Alberta. If you don't know the real names behind the user ids of guys like elk hunter11, covey ridge cowtown bill and brianedward you should maybe do a little research on 95 plus ranked percentage shooters in alberta/ I know it is only clays ranking but I have seen a couple of them take a natural triple on rising huns or pheasant and the odd time a quad. Talk is cheap but the clays ranking as well as hunting success proves ability.

Sorry Rob but I think blanket statements like:

"75-80% is acceptable"

and

"people who shoot a lot of ducks don't pass shoot them"

are elitist comments and should be questioned regardless of a person's ranking on the clay circuit. The first is a matter of opinion based on a limited context and the second isn't true.

Never have I sat beside a hunting partner and counted their hit to miss ratio like some posters here seem to have done. It would take the joy out of the hunt for me and it would certainly take the joy out of it for the people I hunt with if they felt that their shooting was being constantly scrutinized.

[happy honker]

I only shoot birds flying right to left, never left to right, as that is a slightly lower percentage shot, therefore unethical !

Also, we never shoot hens, or drakes...only ducks that refuse to identify as either. You can tell, because they are the ones that won't totally commit to landing over a spread...and usually have just 1 orange foot in the downward position, not two.

Geese are entirely different, as you really have to rely on the sound of the honk...hard to explain, but I'd be happy to demonstrate, in person at your favorite pea field on opening day!!

Actually, our group is becoming such good shots, we are thinking of implementing a "no guns" rule for the first month of the season, and only bring them down with Jedi like mind tricks.

Even further to give the birds a more sporting chance since we are such good shots...we are currently considering the following decoy spread in order to give geese a chance..

I tried to attach a diagram of the spread, but basically it spells out the word "HUNTERS" with an arrow pointing towards our blind...



We will be using a drone, but only before sunrise, just to get up in the air to make sure we spelled it right. (well within regulations)


That having been said...only a month to go...I better get out and shoot a bit !!!!!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

The guy's you listed are 95% shooters? I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just having a hard time finding the stats. The #1 ranked SC shooter in Canada is @ 88.09% according to CNSCA web page. There's a few in Trap and Skeet but I'm having a hard time finding that many shooters ranked that high. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

Again not looking for a fight, but can you explain a quad to me. Are you talking 4 birds in a row, or a true quad?

I think most people think they are better then they are and hold unrealistic expectations on others.

I haven't shot registered targets in many years, so the only record of my shooting will be in the NSSA archives, and that is only if they still maintain the records for former members that are no longer active. The same will be true for many skeet shooters, as skeet has faded from popularity in western Canada, to the point that most skeet ranges have actually closed. Most of us that are shooting skeet these days , only shoot for fun, and most of us don't even own a three or four barrel set , in order to shoot all four gauges. I personally shoot my skeet with the 28 gauge and 410 these days, and unless it is raining, and I take out my waterfowl gun, I never shoot skeet with a gauge larger than the 28. I shoot a 20 gauge for sporting clays, and I have never shot registered sporting clays targets. If my goal was to shoot the highest possible scores, I would use a 12 gauge for both skeet and sporting clays, but that isn't why I shoot clays these days. I shoot these days to maintain my shooting ability for hunting, to improve my skills at sporting clays which I am still learning, and because of the social aspect of the sport, as in getting together with other shooters to shoot some clays, and then have a beer after the shooting is done, and the shotguns are put away.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by happy honker

Actually, our group is becoming such good shots, we are thinking of implementing a "no guns" rule for the first month of the season, and only bring them down with Jedi like mind tricks.

i'm going to look into the legality of using a spear

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i'm going to look into the legality of using a spear

But you WILL stay out of the field until you've achieved at least 75% on clays with that spear right?

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by sjemac

But you WILL stay out of the field until you've achieved at least 75% on clays with that spear right?

right now i'm 88.05% at 40 yards with my spear i'm not worried yet. but yes, once i start moving to birds on the wing i may have to give up if i'm not doing well enough.

[happy honker]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

right now i'm 88.05% at 40 yards with my spear i'm not worried yet. but yes, once i start moving to birds on the wing i may have to give up if i'm not doing well enough.

Also...pick up your spent spears.
Nothing more annoying than getting to a spot and finding spent hulls and spears lying all over the place.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I haven't shot registered targets in many years, so the only record of my shooting will be in the NSSA archives, and that is only if they still maintain the records for former members that are no longer active. The same will be true for many skeet shooters, as skeet has faded from popularity in western Canada, to the point that most skeet ranges have actually closed. Most of us that are shooting skeet these days , only shoot for fun, and most of us don't even own a three or four barrel set , in order to shoot all four gauges. I personally shoot my skeet with the 28 gauge and 410 these days, and unless it is raining, and I take out my waterfowl gun, I never shoot skeet with a gauge larger than the 28. I shoot a 20 gauge for sporting clays, and I have never shot registered sporting clays targets. If my goal was to shoot the highest possible scores, I would use a 12 gauge for both skeet and sporting clays, but that isn't why I shoot clays these days. I shoot these days to maintain my shooting ability for hunting, to improve my skills at sporting clays which I am still learning, and because of the social aspect of the sport, as in getting together with other shooters to shoot some clays, and then have a beer after the shooting is done, and the shotguns are put away.

Not sure why you quoted me, are you claiming you held a 95% average? If you are, that's pretty impressive, congrats!

[wwbirds]

personally I shoot much better on pass shooting ducks left to right. right to left is harder for me.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

Not sure why you quoted me, are you claiming you held a 95% average? If you are, that's pretty impressive, congrats!

I quoted you, because I was one of the people that wwbirds listed in his post.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by happy honker

Also...pick up your spent spears.
Nothing more annoying than getting to a spot and finding spent hulls and spears lying all over the place.

whoa check out the ethics commision over here.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

The guy's you listed are 95% shooters? I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just having a hard time finding the stats. The #1 ranked SC shooter in Canada is @ 88.09% according to CNSCA web page. There's a few in Trap and Skeet but I'm having a hard time finding that many shooters ranked that high. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

Again not looking for a fight, but can you explain a quad to me. Are you talking 4 birds in a row, or a true quad?

I think most people think they are better then they are and hold unrealistic expectations on others.

88.09% is a very good sporting average. I think when wwbirds mentioned 95% he was referring to trap or skeet averages. When I used to be a competitive trap shooter I maintained a 94-95% singles average for several years over several thousand registered targets. There were many more that maintained averages way higher. At sporting I have shot well into the 80s a few times but to maintain an average in the 80s required more dedication and funds than I could do.

The shooter that wwbirds was referring to is the number #1 sporting shooter in the country by average and is an inspiration to watch.

I used to do a lot of shooting over GSPs, but the best upland shooters ever witnessed were the gunners for the Springer competitions. When the trials were in my area I used to go and walk with the gallery and after a full day of trialing there were a few gunners that never missed. Usually AA and Master class sporting shooters.

Yep, we all know those that shoot clay well that just don't on birds. One of the highest scoring trap shooters I know is a complete disaster on everything else including birds. Some fine bird shots are less than stellar on clay and not because they are bad shots but because they are just starting on the learning curve of something that is new.

I hate to state the obvious but birds and clay are different. Every clay in the air is slowing down and every flushed bird is accelerating.

The main difference is that a chipped clay scores but in the field that might translate to a wounded bird that one may or may not know is hit.

Some hunters are just natural on birds. With our limited seasons and limited bags and our limited access, some less than natural shooters just don't have enough practice.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

My 20 year old son was becoming frustrated with his lack of success with duck and goose shooting. Within one year of shooting sporting clays he was hitting 75% of ducks and geese. Sure he felt his percentage could be better but 75% was enough to keep him at the sport. We had a guide and local pay him the ultimate compliment in Stettler a couple years ago. 'Who is that knocking those geese down over there"

Talk is cheap shooting skills rule
Rob

I remember shooting with your son several years ago. He seemed natural and hit way more than he missed, but he was reluctant to leave till he had managed to work out a few of his misses. Not surprised that he is a good game shot.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

88.09% is a very good sporting average. I think when wwbirds mentioned 95% he was referring to trap or skeet averages. When I used to be a competitive trap shooter I maintained a 94-95% singles average for several years over several thousand registered targets. There were many more that maintained averages way higher. At sporting I have shot well into the 80s a few times but to maintain an average in the 80s required more dedication and funds than I could do.

The shooter that wwbirds was referring to is the number #1 sporting shooter in the country by average and is an inspiration to watch.

I used to do a lot of shooting over GSPs, but the best upland shooters ever witnessed were the gunners for the Springer competitions. When the trials were in my area I used to go and walk with the gallery and after a full day of trialing there were a few gunners that never missed. Usually AA and Master class sporting shooters.

Yep, we all know those that shoot clay well that just don't on birds. One of the highest scoring trap shooters I know is a complete disaster on everything else including birds. Some fine bird shots are less than stellar on clay and not because they are bad shots but because they are just starting on the learning curve of something that is new.

I hate to state the obvious but birds and clay are different. Every clay in the air is slowing down and every flushed bird is accelerating.

The main difference is that a chipped clay scores but in the field that might translate to a wounded bird that one may or may not know is hit.

Some hunters are just natural on birds. With our limited seasons and limited bags and our limited access, some less than natural shooters just don't have enough practice.

Good post!

[threeforthree]

Wow....some of you guys are shooting 8 ducks and 8 geese and still have 7 shells in your box left over ...way over my head.congrats if you can do it ..I would think it's more about 40 % . For myself. Think some guys are claiming birds they did not shoot at..

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

88.09% is a very good sporting average. I think when wwbirds mentioned 95% he was referring to trap or skeet averages. When I used to be a competitive trap shooter I maintained a 94-95% singles average for several years over several thousand registered targets. There were many more that maintained averages way higher. At sporting I have shot well into the 80s a few times but to maintain an average in the 80s required more dedication and funds than I could do.

The shooter that wwbirds was referring to is the number #1 sporting shooter in the country by average and is an inspiration to watch.

I used to do a lot of shooting over GSPs, but the best upland shooters ever witnessed were the gunners for the Springer competitions. When the trials were in my area I used to go and walk with the gallery and after a full day of trialing there were a few gunners that never missed. Usually AA and Master class sporting shooters.

Yep, we all know those that shoot clay well that just don't on birds. One of the highest scoring trap shooters I know is a complete disaster on everything else including birds. Some fine bird shots are less than stellar on clay and not because they are bad shots but because they are just starting on the learning curve of something that is new.

I hate to state the obvious but birds and clay are different. Every clay in the air is slowing down and every flushed bird is accelerating.

The main difference is that a chipped clay scores but in the field that might translate to a wounded bird that one may or may not know is hit.

Some hunters are just natural on birds. With our limited seasons and limited bags and our limited access, some less than natural shooters just don't have enough practice.

Some very good trap shooters, and some skeet shooters do not do well on live birds, because they don't seem to be able to adapt to the different conditions. They are too used to standing in the same position, with their gun mounted, and having every target come from the same location, exactly when they call for the target. The result is that they always seem to be surprised when the bird flushes, and they they are usually very slow to adjust to a suitable shooting position when required, and they often end up shooting at birds that are almost out of their effective range. Sporting clays shooters that start from the gun down position usually do much better, and hunters that took up clays afterward often do very well on birds. As well, when hunting over dogs, some people don't plan well for the shot, and they don't position themselves properly, to allow them a clear shot from a comfortable position. And no matter how well you prepare, some birds flush where you don't expect the to, and where a safe shot is impossible, or where you must wait until the bird flies to a position where it is safe to shoot it. Personally, When you think about it, the live birds are usually a lot larger than the side profile of a clay target, and they also have wings spread to provide an even larger target. The neck of a goose is larger than the side profile of a clay, let alone the body of a goose. So given that birds provide a larger target, they should be easier to hit if the shooter is prepared for the shot. The first time that I used a layout blind was a learning experience, as I had never shot flying targets sitting down, but this wasn't hard to adapt to.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some very good trap shooters, and some skeet shooters do not do well on live birds, because they don't seem to be able to adapt to the different conditions. They are too used to standing in the same position, with their gun mounted, and having every target come from the same location, exactly when they call for the target. The result is that they always seem to be surprised when the bird flushes, and they they are usually very slow to adjust to a suitable shooting position when required, and they often end up shooting at birds that are almost out of their effective range. Sporting clays shooters that start from the gun down position usually do much better, and hunters that took up clays afterward often do very well on birds. As well, when hunting over dogs, some people don't plan well for the shot, and they don't position themselves properly, to allow them a clear shot from a comfortable position. And no matter how well you prepare, some birds flush where you don't expect the to, and where a safe shot is impossible, or where you must wait until the bird flies to a position where it is safe to shoot it. Personally, When you think about it, the live birds are usually a lot larger than the side profile of a clay target, and they also have wings spread to provide an even larger target. The neck of a goose is larger than the side profile of a clay, let alone the body of a goose. So given that birds provide a larger target, they should be easier to hit if the shooter is prepared for the shot. The first time that I used a layout blind was a learning experience, as I had never shot flying targets sitting down, but this wasn't hard to adapt to.

My problem as a youngster was not missing but hitting the bird too fast and too close. My daddy used to tell me to let them get out there but whenever I waited I became mechanical in my point and did not do well. What worked for me was to keep my gun motionless until I identified the target and the direction and then I looked for the head.

When I talked to myself I would say "there's the bird" and then "there's the head" and then my move was to insert the gun in front of the bird.

If I was not prepared to go though my routine my focus would get locked on the movement of those wings and my quick reaction would result in a hard shot between those wings.

I have often had problems with incoming birds like overhead ducks. When I saw them from a distance I could not help but focus on them. For me, I learned that could not hold really good focus for long and my ability to hold focus became less as I aged. My solution was to deliberately break focus by moving my eyes away, relax my eyes then the time was right move my eyes to focus and let the gun follow.

[wwbirds]

and here I thought your user id was because you only shot triples Ron! True real life story the guys that introduced me to duck hunting were hard rock miners in northern ontario. They saw a cased rifle in my office and assuming I was a hunter invited me on a weekend duck hunt coming up. When they picked me up in the fdark they asked how many shells I had brought and seemed surprized when I said only 25 because you were only allowed 6 ducks.
I did get a duck or two with my box of shells but ordered my first retriever that weekwhen I saw these guys strip down to thier shorts to go wade in a loon chit black beaver pond to pick up a few black ducks.
Many years later I played the same trick on a local big game hunter introducing to duck hunting on a nuisance permit with no limits over wet barley. He brought 2 boxes of shells and connected with his first duck on the 49th shot.

Cant recall who asked about a quad? Yes a quad is a natural 4 rooster flying and downed with 4 shots by one shooter. Brooks tournament soft releases (25 at a time) roosters on a quarter section and 15 minutes later teams of up to 6 shooters comb the field to see which team gets the most. During the tournament 4 roosters flushed between Brian and I in the morning and it was either not safe for me to shoot or the birds I was aiming at were already falling to Brians gun. His semi auto stayed open after the third shot and he quickly placed another shot in the chamber to take the natural quad (4th rooster) at 50 yards. I had seen another incredible wingshooter (Cowtown Bill) take a natural triple on a rising covey of hungarian partridge many years ago but never seen a quad on any gamebird. As Covey says Brian makes it look easy every day. If the birds are flying it is rare for him not to limit out on ducks within the first hour of light.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

My problem as a youngster was not missing but hitting the bird too fast and too close. My daddy used to tell me to let them get out there but whenever I waited I became mechanical in my point and did not do well. What worked for me was to keep my gun motionless until I identified the target and the direction and then I looked for the head.

When I talked to myself I would say "there's the bird" and then "there's the head" and then my move was to insert the gun in front of the bird.

If I was not prepared to go though my routine my focus would get locked on the movement of those wings and my quick reaction would result in a hard shot between those wings.

I have often had problems with incoming birds like overhead ducks. When I saw them from a distance I could not help but focus on them. For me, I learned that could not hold really good focus for long and my ability to hold focus became less as I aged. My solution was to deliberately break focus by moving my eyes away, relax my eyes then the time was right move my eyes to focus and let the gun follow.

I used to have a similar problem when I started. I would have my gun ready for incoming birds and was over prepared to shoot with the result of frustrating misses. I learned to keep the gun down until the instant I was going to shoot and then bring it up in one fluid motion and pulling the trigger the instant the lead was established. Kind of a cross between snap shooting and sustained lead.

[threeforthree]

I took 27 triples last year, but I had days when took only two birds in a box , I am talking duck and goose.just watch the best shooters in the waterfowl tv industry,they shoot max 50%, I always count shells shot and birds that drop. One thing for sure is that I shoot better when I am by myself then rather in a group of four guys. I worry to much on where a gun is pointed.

[heronfish]

Most of this thread smells terribly of .300 hitters telling the 0.220 hitters that he isn't good enough to play baseball, so he should just quit.
A lot like long distance shooters telling grandpa his 3030 isn't up to snuff.
It is often assumed on forums like this that every hunter lives and breathes shooting. It is just not the case. Most hunters Wil never go to a club.
That shouldn't affect their ability to enjoy time afield the same way you do. Mistakes are made, shots are missed and sometimes coyotes find an easy lunch. Life goes on.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by threeforthree

I took 27 triples last year, but I had days when took only two birds in a box , I am talking duck and goose.just watch the best shooters in the waterfowl tv industry,they shoot max 50%, I always count shells shot and birds that drop. One thing for sure is that I shoot better when I am by myself then rather in a group of four guys. I worry to much on where a gun is pointed.

Upland hunting I do my best when there is only one other shooter. Since I no longer have a dog, I very seldom attempt a second shot when my first is down. To take my eye off were the first dropped to take a second is risky.
My wife who does not shoot sometimes comes with me and then I will shoot doubles. My instructions are "always stay behind me" and watch and mark where my first bird falls.

I eat well without taking chances!

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by heronfish

Most of this thread smells terribly of .300 hitters telling the 0.220 hitters that he isn't good enough to play baseball, so he should just quit.
A lot like long distance shooters telling grandpa his 3030 isn't up to snuff.
It is often assumed on forums like this that every hunter lives and breathes shooting. It is just not the case. Most hunters Wil never go to a club.
That shouldn't affect their ability to enjoy time afield the same way you do. Mistakes are made, shots are missed and sometimes coyotes find an easy lunch. Life goes on.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

No one wants to deliberately loose or wound birds but you make a good point in that they are never really wasted in nature.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by heronfish

Most of this thread smells terribly of .300 hitters telling the 0.220 hitters that he isn't good enough to play baseball, so he should just quit.
A lot like long distance shooters telling grandpa his 3030 isn't up to snuff.
It is often assumed on forums like this that every hunter lives and breathes shooting. It is just not the case. Most hunters Wil never go to a club.
That shouldn't affect their ability to enjoy time afield the same way you do. Mistakes are made, shots are missed and sometimes coyotes find an easy lunch. Life goes on.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

More like the .300 hitters encouraging the ..220 hitters to try some more batting practise. Or perhaps to concentrate on the safer plays, rather than the high risk plays. .

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

My wife who does not shoot sometimes comes with me and then I will shoot doubles. My instructions are "always stay behind me" !

Yeah, the only guys who can regularly get away with that are guys like this...

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by heronfish

A lot like long distance shooters telling grandpa his 3030 isn't up to snuff.

I took it more as long distance shooters telling grandpa, who takes a grand total of two shots a year with his 30-30, that he shouldn't be attempting 700 yard shots. If grandpa attempts to bag his white tail at 110 yards and misses, everyone just says "damn, that's too bad. Better luck next time."

[heronfish]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

More like the .300 hitters encouraging the ..220 hitters to try some more batting practise. Or perhaps to concentrate on the safer plays, rather than the high risk plays. .

Take a good long look at your comments and you will see why the great majority of hunters never shoot shotgun at a club.

One is best to keep opinions to themselves, especially if they wish to brag about shooting the avian equivalent of a 4H steer.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[sns2]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

whoa check out the ethics commision over here.

Maybe refer to your spear as an atlatl. Much more en vogue. Pick up your sox, Fish!

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

More like the .300 hitters encouraging the ..220 hitters to try some more batting practise. Or perhaps to concentrate on the safer plays, rather than the high risk plays. .

Yeah, that's how it works. That is why we see all of the fist fights on the sports channel highlight shows.

"Watch now folks as Justin Smoak encourages the struggling José Bautista to take more batting practise."