Acceptable Wingshooting Kill Percentage

[elkhunter11]

Discussing wing shooting with a few other hunters/clay shooters, I am wondering what everyone else considers acceptable for a kill percentage when shooting birds on the wing. I have witnessed many people averaging three to five shots per bird on both waterfowl and upland birds, which would be unacceptable to me. If you are missing that much, then you are also wounding a lot of birds that you are not recovering. If you don't keep track, it's as simple as counting the empty hulls after a hunt, and comparing it to the number of birds you are taking home. Many people are surprised at how many shots they have fired, when they count up their fired hulls after a hunt. The next question would be if you find that you are shooting three shots per kill, do you look at ways to improve that ratio, or do you just carry more ammunition, so that you don't run out?

I am posting this now, as there is still time to go out and work on your wimgshooting before the season begins.

[fish_e_o]

75-80% is acceptable i like to be higher than that.

also if you're shooting 75% on pheasants the dogs and your partners will be upset with you.

fast ducks or huns or whatever 80% is pretty good.

[MK2750]

Kicking up farm fresh pheasants and/or shooting geese that are about to land on your chest shouldn't be confused with good wing shooting.

I have taken some "excellent" wing shooters out to the marsh on a windy day and they returned with only humble pie to eat. Ruffed Grouse over a good flushing dog generally produces the same results. No ground or tree swatting often means no birds in the bag, especially when there is good cover.

[h&t]

IIRC Loayal Order of Grouse (ruffed) Hunters stats were about 3 shots per bird.
Ruffed grouse are tough to shoot on the wing.

IMO it's highly variable based on target species, habitat and method of hunting.

I'd say 5 shorts per bird is too much. Really low percentage shots should be avoided, suitable gun/shot/choke should be used and the shooter must practice out of season.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Kicking up farm fresh pheasants and/or shooting geese that are about to land on your chest shouldn't be confused with good wing shooting.

I have taken some "excellent" wing shooters out to the marsh on a windy day and they returned with only humble pie to eat. Ruffed Grouse over a good flushing dog generally produces the same results. No ground or tree swatting often means no birds in the bag, especially when there is good cover.

Shot selection is a huge factor in how many animals/birds you kill, and how many you miss or wound. A less skilled shooter can have a higher kill percentage, due to shot selection, compared to a highly skilled shooter that wants to push his limits. I pass up many shots every year, because I am not confident that I can make a clean kill in that situation. I don't take Hail Mary shots at birds, or at big game, unless the animal is already wounded.

Really low percentage shots should be avoided, suitable gun/shot/choke should be used and the shooter must practice out of season.

I agree on all points.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

75-80% is acceptable i like to be higher than that.

also if you're shooting 75% on pheasants the dogs and your partners will be upset with you.

fast ducks or huns or whatever 80% is pretty good.

75-80%? Most people don't do that well shooting clay pigeons much less ducks or geese. About the only bird I've ever seen a shooting percentage like that or better is pheasent. I'd venture to guess that most people shoot less than 30% on waterfowl, those who go a lot will be higher than that but to be honest I've seen very few people approach 75% on waterfowl except on an occasional basis.

[lannie]

I have never witnessed anyone shooting 75% pass shooting ducks or geese and have been doing it for 45 years.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by slough shark

75-80%? Most people don't do that well shooting clay pigeons much less ducks or geese. About the only bird I've ever seen a shooting percentage like that or better is pheasent. I'd venture to guess that most people shoot less than 30% on waterfowl, those who go a lot will be higher than that but to be honest I've seen very few people approach 75% on waterfowl except on an occasional basis.

Shot selection is a huge part of a high percentage on waterfowl. Some people are okay with birds flying off while they still have a round n the chamber, but some people just have to fire that round, even if the odds of a clean kill are low.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Shot selection is a huge part of a high percentage on waterfowl. Some people are okay with birds flying off while they still have a round n the chamber, but some people just have to fire that round, even if the odds of a clean kill are low.

Oh I'm aware that shooting less will end up in a higher % but the reality of what I've seen is unless you're hunting a well scouted field shoot you won't get close to that 75-80% most pass shooting or water shoots will be far less. They simply don't decoy as well for those hunts and unfortunately a fellow does these shoots too as many guides take up field shoots and a good one can be tricky to find.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by slough shark

75-80%? Most people don't do that well shooting clay pigeons much less ducks or geese. About the only bird I've ever seen a shooting percentage like that or better is pheasent. I'd venture to guess that most people shoot less than 30% on waterfowl, those who go a lot will be higher than that but to be honest I've seen very few people approach 75% on waterfowl except on an occasional basis.

80% on trap is 20. with practice that is not a hard number to achieve especially if it's slow and not on wobble. full wobble and full speed that should be your base imo.

i've probably only shot about 50 pheasants (unless i'm forgetting a bunch) but i haven't had one got away and was shot at and i recall only one that was had on the second shot. they're very slow birds in my experience

geese should be in that range. as long as you're not sky busting or pass shooting there's no excuse they're practically stationary at that point.

some ducks and huns etc. can be lower it's just a base number to throw out right.

but i'm very selective with my shots; i won't take a questionable shot whereas the next guy would have gone for a hail mary. so i don't think we should be counting poor percentage shots. i went hunting with one guy once that emptied his semi auto at a goose at about a 100 yards. as far as i'm concerned he was just warming the barrel up. i'm talking about shots where you have an expectation of being able to hit the bird; those are the shots i would take.

as a side note i bet that with steel shot a lot more waterfowl get shot than people realize at the time.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by lannie

I have never witnessed anyone shooting 75% pass shooting ducks or geese and have been doing it for 45 years.

people who shoot a lot of ducks don't pass shoot them

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Shot selection is a huge factor in how many animals/birds you kill, and how many you miss or wound. A less skilled shooter can have a higher kill percentage, due to shot selection, compared to a highly skilled shooter that wants to push his limits. I pass up many shots every year, because I am not confident that I can make a clean kill in that situation. I don't take Hail Mary shots at birds, or at big game, unless the animal is already wounded.

You should stick to the release sites and grain fields if that is the case. In the real world, under real field conditions, shots are missed and no where near all shots are taken with 100% assurance of a kill. Many a kill is not clean and many a time we are dependant on a good retriever to make up for a not so perfect shot.

No one should shoot at a big game animal if they are not 100% confident in a kill. Your comment, as usual, is irrelevant to discussion and simply designed to try to make yourself look better than others. Someone suggests that they hunt under challenging conditions and you suggest we are making "Hail Mary" shots at impossible targets.

You should really try to get out more. Windy day Canvasbacks and Blue Bills will adjust your attitude in no time. I took a world class trap and skeet shooter out to the marsh one fall. I loaned him an autoloader as be only had competition guns in his cabinet. After managing a tricky shot on a group of flaring Blue Bills, I asked him how he liked the shotgun. He said it was shooting 6 birds to the left.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by MK2750

You should stick to the release sites and grain fields if that is the case. In the real world, under real field conditions, shots are missed and no where near all shots are taken with 100% assurance of a kill. Many a kill is not clean and many a time we are dependant on a good retriever to make up for a not so perfect shot.

if you don't know when you have a reasonable expectation of making a shot then you haven't been shooting a shotgun very long.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

people who shoot a lot of ducks don't pass shoot them

Sometimes they do. I've shot more ducks in more situations than the vast majority of people on this forum. Sometimes -- especially on some diver shoots -- you are primarily pass shooting as the birds are only coming in for a really fast look at the decoys. When the wind is really ripping it sometimes takes some time to figure out what your lead needs to be -- especially on ducks with a tailwind. But when you catch up with the canvasback that's flying at 100 km/he with a 50 km/h tailwind and you watch it skip across the water like a stone for 40 yards…… priceless.

As for pheasants, I can probably count the number I've missed on one hand. But that is not an apples to apples comparison with many other wingshooting situations.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

if you don't know when you have a reasonable expectation of making a shot then you haven't been shooting a shotgun very long.

Yeah MK2750, what the hell would you know you amateur!😂😂😂😂😜

[NSDucknut]

If I can take a limit of ducks before my shell belt is empty I call it a good day. If I'm shooting other people's cripples then it looks worse for me

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

You should stick to the release sites and grain fields if that is the case. In the real world, under real field conditions, shots are missed and no where near all shots are taken with 100% assurance of a kill. Many a kill is not clean and many a time we are dependant on a good retriever to make up for a not so perfect shot.

No one should shoot at a big game animal if they are not 100% confident in a kill. Your comment, as usual, is irrelevant to discussion and simply designed to try to make yourself look better than others. Someone suggests that they hunt under challenging conditions and you suggest we are making "Hail Mary" shots at impossible targets.

You should really try to get out more. Windy day Canvasbacks and Blue Bills will adjust your attitude in no time. I took a world class trap and skeet shooter out to the marsh one fall. I loaned him an autoloader as be only had competition guns in his cabinet. After managing a tricky shot on a group of flaring Blue Bills, I asked him how he liked the shotgun. He said it was shooting 6 birds to the left.

I don't hunt diving ducks, because I have no interest in them. I do however enjoy a late season field hunt for Mallards, and given that these are wild birds that come and go as they please, this is real world hunting And I do generally only shoot green heads, because that is my choice. I do hunt geese on occasion, but I much prefer a field shoot to hunting on water. I enjoy upland birds over a dog much more than either, so I spend most of my time hunting upland birds over a dog. As well as pheasants, I hunt sharptailed grouse as well as Hungarian Partridge, which once again , I do consider real world hunting. But no matter what I am shooting, or where I am shooting them. I only take high percentage shots. If I have to pass a few shots every trip, so what, I am hunting, and I am not going to starve if I don't get my limit, or if it takes another hour to fill my limit.

I can remember one of our last pheasant hunt last fall, where we were hunting in the snow. I came across a set of tracks which I followed for about 1/2 mile , and along those tracks, I found four locations where there were three 12 gauge fired hulls in the snow at each location. The snow was fresh enough to see that one person had fired all 12 shots, and had not moved off of his tracks to pick up a bird, and there were no signs of a kill along those tracks. Personally, I would not enjoy missing 12 shots at released pheasants in a row, and even my dog would not be happy.

if you don't know when you have a reasonable expectation of making a shot then you haven't been shooting a shotgun very long.

Pretty much. I enjoy the tough shots at sporting clays, and I miss my share. but I limit the low percentage shots to clays, rather than game birds.

[Knotter]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I asked him how he liked the shotgun. He said it was shooting 6 birds to the left.

Bluebills on a windy day have humbled me to the point that I might as well go throw a box of ammo in the garbage... or light the money i paid for it on fire.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't hunt diving ducks, because I have no interest in them. I do however enjoy a late season field hunt for Mallards, and given that these are wild birds that come and go as they please, this is real world hunting And I do generally only shoot green heads, because that is my choice. I do hunt geese on occasion, but I much prefer a field shoot to hunting on water. I enjoy upland birds over a dog much more than either, so I spend most of my time hunting upland birds over a dog. As well as pheasants, I hunt sharptailed grouse as well as Hungarian Partridge, which once again , I do consider real world hunting. But no matter what I am shooting, or where I am shooting them. I only take high percentage shots. If I have to pass a few shots every trip, so what, I am hunting, and I am not going to starve if I don't get my limit, or if it takes another hour to fill my limit.



Pretty much. I enjoy the tough shots at sporting clays, and I miss my share. but I limit the low percentage shots to clays, rather than game birds.

There is a lot of skill involved in being a field hunter. None of it, however, is related to shooting ability. Shooting decoying birds in the field is somewhat equivalent to shooting a slowly accelerating Mack truck. The skill involved is in regards to site selection the decoy spread the camouflage of the blinds and calling the shot.

Grouse in the timber. Dove hunt's. Pass shooting. Big water diver hunting. Snipe hunting. Driven shoots. Jump shooting. Open prairie sharp tail and partridge shooting. Even hunting waterfowl over water. All these are measures of ability more challenging than field shooting or shooting flushed pheasants. 50/50 on pointed birds -- big whoop. 8/10 on decoying mallards -- yawn. 8/16 on flushed snipe -- now you know something.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sjemac

There is a lot of skill involved in being a field hunter. None of it, however, is related to shooting ability. Shooting decoying birds in the field is somewhat equivalent to shooting a slowly accelerating Mack truck. The skill involved is in regards to site selection the decoy spread the camouflage of the blinds and calling the shot.

Grouse in the timber. Dove hunt's. Pass shooting. Big water diver hunting. Snipe hunting. Driven shoots. Jump shooting. Open prairie sharp tail and partridge shooting. Even hunting waterfowl over water. All these are measures of ability more challenging than field shooting or shooting flushed pheasants. 50/50 on pointed birds -- big whoop. 8/10 on decoying mallards -- yawn. 8/16 on flushed snipe -- now you know something.

I would like to see you go 50/50 on pointed birds, when half of them are in the timber. And that is where you will find many of the released pheasants a day or two after they are released. and they have been pushed out of the open fields. I have been in brush so thick that I couldn't swing a gun getting to my dog on point, when a bird flushed. Sharptailed grouse and Hungarian partridge on open fields often provide easier shots. Then again, the people that chase the release truck and shoot most of their birds on the ground, or sitting in trees should easily go 50/50. yet they don't for some reason.

[Mulehahn]

The trick to shooting 80% and higher is to be selective on your hunting days. I only went duck hunting twice last year, the other 10 or so trips trips were just showing my shotgun the scenery with dinner after.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would like to see you go 50/50 on pointed birds, when half of them are in the timber. And that is where you will find many of the released pheasants a day or two after they are released. and they have been pushed out of the open fields. I have been in brush so thick that I couldn't swing a gun getting to my dog on point, when a bird flushed. Sharptailed grouse and Hungarian partridge on open fields often provide easier shots. Then again, the people that chase the release truck and shoot most of their birds on the ground, or sitting in trees should easily go 50/50. yet they don't for some reason.

I spent my first 20 years of hunting going after ruffies and woodcock in thick alders. Pheasants are easy. I know I am exactly 138 for 146 on wing shot pheasants because I keep track. We don't shoot many released birds outside of the Taber pheasant fest. But hey, if you can shoot pheasants and decoying mallards you are an expert wing shot I guess.

So are you saying fish e o is 50/50 because he's a sluicer?

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

The trick to shooting 80% and higher is to be selective on your hunting days. I only went duck hunting twice last year, the other 10 or so trips trips were just showing my shotgun the scenery with dinner after.

I suppose. But 80% is a stupid and arbitrary benchmark made up by people who don't shoot a lot in different situations. You only learn to shoot better by actually shooting in a variety of situations that sporting clays and skeet ranges can't actually give you.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

The trick to shooting 80% and higher is to be selective on your hunting days. I only went duck hunting twice last year, the other 10 or so trips trips were just showing my shotgun the scenery with dinner after.

Only problem with that is much of my duck hunting is done 3-4 hours from my place, I drive out for the weekend and try to line up a field shoot and 1 water shoot. That's and expensive trip to not even hunt and hard to justify to the wife if I leave her with the kids and go out for the weekend and don't even do what I go for. I do a field shoot to get the geese and mallards and a water hunt so the dog gets to work a bit, field shooting is a way higher percentage but I like to work the dog too.

[Big Lou]

Far to many variables in situations but I bet the 30% running average is pretty close for your every day shooter. I used to be a pretty good shooter with sporting clays. Won a few junior competitions. Higher 80's was a common score. However, I truly sucked at shooting live birds. In any situation. First shot was generally a kill and the rest was just panic. So I started to only load one shell. Once I got settled down with knowing I had only one round, moved to having two and so on. Before you know it you're taking home 2.5 limits on a box of shells. Worked great.

These days, geese over decoys pose little to no challenge, legs out and stalled. People should be head shooting them in that situation. There are days but on the whole there isn't much that gets missed. Ducks on a pot hole, pretty routine. I'm picking drakes though and honestly, probably shooting less total rounds than if I weren't being selective. No doubt my average would be lower in a unselective situation but I believe this goes back to how I trained myself to not just empty my gun. I'd wager an average on those two scenarios would be upwards of 75%. BUT, we are picking our shots. Now if we are fencelining snows or something like that, percentage there would be lower no question. I went out for some big water canvasback shooting years ago thinking I was all that. My partners too. We never tickled a feather all day. Humbled wasn't the word. They crushed us.

I can't speak as to what upland would be like as I've never done much. Certainly a different animal and I respect the guys who do. Shooting position and targets are constantly changing. Probably something akin to shooting at targets from a wobble trap while walking on a treadmill set to "terrain". I doubt I'd do as well there as I can do in a duck blind.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by sjemac

So are you saying fish e o is 50/50 because he's a sluicer?

guilty as charged!

if i can't swing my shotgun because i'm in the trees i'll probably not shoot. hopefully it will flush out of the trees to someone else.

if the geese are flaring and there are two good presentations i don't send the third at a fleeing goose for good measure.

that's just me i'm just picky

[BuckCuller]

My opinion is based more on waterfowl as that is what I mostly shoot.
A beginner would be hard pressed to shoot 75-80%. An experience shooter would be more like 2 out of three or better. There is a lot of variables. I've shot two boxes for a limit of ducks at the start of the season from being rusty.
You can really limit you cripples by choosing your shots. Example if I have mallards at 10 yards or less I miss my first shot clean 6 out of 10 but the other 4 are missing there head. I have to back up my blind to shoot 9 out of 10.
One time I left the house and forgot my ammo, went to test out a new pond by myself and had three 2 3/4 shells in my pocket. That day because I was really being picky on my shots I came home with one mallard two wigeons and a goose so I suppose that day I shot 125%.
Another day I was aiming at the lead bird in a flock of blue wing teal that were banking in hot and when I shot four fell out of the sky one required a second shot that was another day that was over 100% If you've hunted teal and there decoying good they come in low and hit the water fast, sometimes before you can even get a shot.
I've had more than one snipe fly right through my pattern with out a pellet touching it.
I've had good days and I've had bad days wing shooting but on that note you will have higher percentages with picking your shots but don't discourage new shooters because they have trouble hitting birds just encourage them to practise.
And always kill your cripples right away before you shoot at any more birds, that drives me nuts.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

guilty as charged!

if i can't swing my shotgun because i'm in the trees i'll probably not shoot. hopefully it will flush out of the trees to someone else.

if the geese are flaring and there are two good presentations i don't send the third at a fleeing goose for good measure.

that's just me i'm just picky

And that is what I do. There is no way that I could go 50/50 if I shot at every single bird, and I don't even try. And like yourself, I am perfectly content to watch waterfowl fly off with a round left in the chamber. Sure geese or ducks dropping into decoys in a field should be easy to shoot, yet some people still shoot a box or more of shotshells to take a daily limit of ducks or geese. And some of those people are perfectly content to do that hunt after hunt, with no effort made to change the situation. Some of them insist that the only way to become a good wingshooter is to keep shooting birds, and they maintain that shooting skeet or sporting clays is of no value in improving their success on shooting birds. Oddly enough, I have seen people suddenly use less than half of the ammunition that they used to use, after a couple f months shooting skeet once per week.

[gitrdun]

Personally, I cannot make any claims whatsoever as to what my percentage may be. But I totally am on-board with shooting and practicing on clays and upgrading one's performance. I don't shoot migratory anymore, (ducks or geese) as for one, I don't like the taste, and secondly, I can get cranky when wet and cold. Thus, I restrict myself to upland birds. I've been very fortunate to meet up both in person and on-line with a couple of nice folks that have offered to take me out hunting over good dogs. It's been a bucket list on mine for some time. Many thanks to elkhunter11 and to densa44....

[catnthehat]

I don't care if a person takes three shots to kill a bird as long as they kill the same bird they were shooting at with the other two shots!
Shooting and missing is one clean thing, shooting , wounding and not recovering is quite another.
Either instance however, should make a person take a close personal look at what they are doing and try to improve on their shooting skills.
Either way , some clays practice and some proper instruction cannot hurt......
Cat