Acceptable Wingshooting Kill Percentage

[sns2]

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion. If I have spent the money and time to be in the field, every legal game bird that comes in range is gonna have to dodge lead or steel shot until my limit has been filled. That's just the way it is. The more that come down, the merrier.

Now my range may be different than your range, but if it's in my range, the only ethics I need to satisfy is the hunting licence in my wallet.

Most guys I know would love to spend more time shooting clays. However, let's be completely honest folks, finances and time, dictate that many can't shoot as much as they would like. I know that's my situation.

[Scar270]

Interesting concept, but seems really hard to put a percentage on. Is the percentage per hunt? per season? per flock?

I can and do shoot anywhere from 20% to 100% wingshooting, so tough to say an average. What about when I make a quad with my SxS. I have more then once dropped a triple with the first barrel and picked of a single with the remaining barrel. Makes the shells used to dead birds look great, but doesn't really change the number of misses.

As mentioned there is a big difference between pass shooting crossing ducks and field shooting decoyed honkers.

I agree it's always best to avoid wounding birds, however a 50% hit ration doesn't equate to wounded birds. I have had days when I just felt a need to give every bird a warning shot. Probably never wounded anything (at least for longer then it took to pull the trigger again) as they nearly all, if not all, dropped on the second shot.

If you waterfowl with 2 of you or more, it can also be really hard to tell who actually killed what. I have seen 3 ducks come in perfect over decoys, there was only 2 bangs, 5 shots were fired and all 3 ducks were dead. I suspect all 5 shots were on target, but how do we really know?

I would argue that any shots used trying to kill a cripple shouldn't be included in the %. I have seen 10 shots used trying to get a pellet into the head of a duck that's swimming along 50 yards out.

Lots of factors and ways to look at things. I hate missing, I practice year round on clays, shoot live pigeons as pest control, and get in all the duck hunting I can, yet I still miss. Pretty tough to fault guys who have families, get to the range 3 times a year, and 2 weekends of bird hunting in, who don't shoot the same percentage I do.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Scar270

Interesting concept, but seems really hard to put a percentage on. Is the percentage per hunt? per season? per flock?

I would not even attempt to calculate a percentage. If I am shooting clay I will let someone else keep track for me so I can concentrate on the next pair. What's hit is history and what's missed is mystery.

If I am in the field, I try not to reflect on past shoots either good or bad. I enjoy the day and try to anticipate the next flush or incoming birds. If I find myself shooting holes in the sky or wounding birds I usually stop hunting as I find it often does not get better without a reset. Often all it takes is a coffee and half a sandwich and a realization that the next flush no matter how difficult will be a shot that I have done many times before.

It may be cheating the AO rules but when I miss 3 or 4 in a row I try not to remember those so I always have fond memories of my ability.

or I sell my gun and try different ammo because all this bad shooting can not be my fault

[threeforthree]

Do not look at like a % then ,,,you got a duck and goose combo hunt going on do you only take one box of shells with you????/ ....you can limit out on BOTH and come back with 7 shells,,,if you shoot 75%

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by threeforthree

Do not look at like a % then ,,,you got a duck and goose combo hunt going on do you only take one box of shells with you????/ ....you can limit out on BOTH and come back with 7 shells,,,if you shoot 75%

That pretty much puts it in perspective. I think I'll take three boxes.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Scar270

Interesting concept, but seems really hard to put a percentage on. Is the percentage per hunt? per season? per flock?

I can and do shoot anywhere from 20% to 100% wingshooting, so tough to say an average. What about when I make a quad with my SxS. I have more then once dropped a triple with the first barrel and picked of a single with the remaining barrel. Makes the shells used to dead birds look great, but doesn't really change the number of misses.

As mentioned there is a big difference between pass shooting crossing ducks and field shooting decoyed honkers.

I agree it's always best to avoid wounding birds, however a 50% hit ration doesn't equate to wounded birds. I have had days when I just felt a need to give every bird a warning shot. Probably never wounded anything (at least for longer then it took to pull the trigger again) as they nearly all, if not all, dropped on the second shot.

If you waterfowl with 2 of you or more, it can also be really hard to tell who actually killed what. I have seen 3 ducks come in perfect over decoys, there was only 2 bangs, 5 shots were fired and all 3 ducks were dead. I suspect all 5 shots were on target, but how do we really know?

I would argue that any shots used trying to kill a cripple shouldn't be included in the %. I have seen 10 shots used trying to get a pellet into the head of a duck that's swimming along 50 yards out.

Lots of factors and ways to look at things. I hate missing, I practice year round on clays, shoot live pigeons as pest control, and get in all the duck hunting I can, yet I still miss. Pretty tough to fault guys who have families, get to the range 3 times a year, and 2 weekends of bird hunting in, who don't shoot the same percentage I do.

That's why this percentage thing is totally ridiculous with regard to waterfowl. I am always hunting with 3-5 people so identifying who shot what is almost impossible.

There are times when you can tell, but overall totally ridiculous concept. Crawling or walking around looking for your hulls so you can count how many shots you took when you don't even know for sure if you hit the bird.

Just another pat myself on the back thread.......lots of them from a few on here.[/QUOTE]

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobalong

That's why this percentage thing is totally ridiculous with regard to waterfowl. I am always hunting with 3-5 people so identifying who shot what is almost impossible.

There are times when you can tell, but overall totally ridiculous concept. Crawling or walking around looking for your hulls so you can count how many shots you took when you don't even know for sure if you hit the bird.

Just another pat myself on the back thread.......lots of them from a few on here.

Regardless of where we hunt, we always pick up our hulls, because we choose not to litter. It doesn't take much extra time or effort to count them as we put them in a garbage bag at the end of a shoot.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Regardless of where we hunt, we always pick up our hulls, because we choose not to litter. It doesn't take much extra time or effort to count them as we put them in a garbage bag at the end of a shoot.

I'm sure he does pick up his hull's, I think he is trying to make a point as to how ridiculous it would be. I for one would be pretty ****y if I was hunting with someone and they started picking up hulls and calculating shot averages.

I find it a bit humorous that a fellow starts a thread like this and then promotes shooting Roosters with a 410 and 28ga in another. It can be done, no doubt, but is it really the right gauge, especially with new wing shooters? My point is everyone has different opinions on hunting ethic's... maybe you should just keeps yours to yourself.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

I'm sure he does pick up his hull's, I think he is trying to make a point as to how ridiculous it would be. I for one would be pretty ****y if I was hunting with someone and they started picking up hulls and calculating shot averages.

I find it a bit humorous that a fellow starts a thread like this and then promotes shooting Roosters with a 410 and 28ga in another. It can be done, no doubt, but is it really the right gauge, especially with new wing shooters? My point is everyone has different opinions on hunting ethic's... maybe you should just keeps yours to yourself.

One of my hunting partners , and an AO member, is much more effective with his 410, than many hunters are with a 12 gauge, because he is a much better than average wingshooter , and he limits his shots to the ranges where he is effective with the 410. I myself prefer a 28 gauge, because I prefer not to accept the limitations of the 410 for hunting., but the 28 gauge works very well for me. So if myself and my hunting partner are much more effective with the 28gauge and 410 than most hunters are with a 12 gauge, why would using the 28 and 410 not be rhe rigjt thing to do for US.

I shoot for the local NAVHDA club for their training days, and for their testing. The members pay for each bird, and for the tests, and a missed bird in a test is never a good thing. I use a 28 gauge the vast majority of the time when shooting for the club, and the club members have no issue with my shooting, or with my choice of gauge.

That being said, I have never recommend a 410 for a new hunter, because of it's limitations. For a smaller shooter that can't handle recoil, a 28 gauge is a much better choice than a 410, but I would rather see them with a gas operated semi auto 20 gauge.

The bottom line, is that I could care less what YOU use, as long as YOU are using it effectively.

[angery jonn]

I apologize, I must have read wrong when someone was bragging up your 40 or 50yd shots with a 28ga on roosters and the new hunter you took out with the single shot 410...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

I apologize, I must have read wrong when someone was bragging up your 40 or 50yd shots with a 28ga on roosters and the new hunter you took out with the single shot 410...

It wasn't me bragging up my 40 and 50 yards shots with the 28 gauge, and the person posting was exaggerating the yardage, as I don't recall ever shooting at birds past 40 yards with a 28 gauge. In fact most of my shots are taken at 20 to 30 yards. I did take out a shooter that was using a 410, but he is not a new hunter just new to hunting pheasants, and he had another shooter backing him up in case he missed or made a poor hit. His shots were all within 15 to 20 yards, so if he made a poor shot, there was plenty of opportunity to finish the bird before it flew out of range. Not one bird that he shot at was wounded and lost.Hunting over a pointing dog makes it fairly easy to set up shots for a less experienced shooter, and we do that on a regular basis to give newer shooters the first shot.. When joined by a friend and his son, we always try to set up the shot so that he gets the first shot, and we can back him up if required.

[Coulee]

The percentage of kills my 4ga punt gun gets has gone way down since we had to switch to steel.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I don't care if a person takes three shots to kill a bird as long as they kill the same bird they were shooting at with the other two shots!
Shooting and missing is one clean thing, shooting , wounding and not recovering is quite another.
Either instance however, should make a person take a close personal look at what they are doing and try to improve on their shooting skills.
Either way , some clays practice and some proper instruction cannot hurt......
Cat

This, I tend to shoot a lot my first few trips out, but I'm generally sending multiple shots at the same bird... which usually ends up dead. While I find that shooting clays gets me ready for upland shooting fairly well, with waterfowl I still need some trial and error to find my lead regardless of how many clays I shoot, and sometimes that means making a few shots at the same bird.

My usual method the first couple of trips is try to spot a couple birds flying in a string and try to hit the first one, generally I get the second bird a few times before I get my lead figured out.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

My usual method the first couple of trips is try to spot a couple birds flying in a string and try to hit the first one, generally I get the second bird a few times before I get my lead figured out.

I thought ducks and geese flew slightly off set just to prevent that sort of thing

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I thought ducks and geese flew slightly off set just to prevent that sort of thing

I don't hunt geese, and apparently ducks haven't figured this out yet. I'm sure there's something inherently wrong with the way I do things but that's always how I sort my early season kinks out.

[Pudelpointer]

On one hand I get the point of the original post - practicing wingshooting skills is a desireable / ethical consideration; even more so for those new(er) to wingshooting.

On the other hand, shooting clays teaches nothing about shot selection, and can confound effective shooting on waterfowl (with steel shot clipping along 40-60% faster than many/most lead loads).

I have been wingshooting for a few decades, waterfowl and upland. I usually make doubles on Huns a couple times a year, occasional triples on ducks, and have knocked more than one honker from the sky at a time. I have also thrown pounds, literally, of lead in an attempt to bring a bird or two home for supper. I have missed more teals than I have ever hit, I have listed to (many) more than one rooster cackle his disparaging laugh at me after throwing two rounds in his general direction, usually under 30 yards...

My greatest challenge seems to be adjusting back and forth between steel and lead. Some days it takes me a few birds, sometimes many, to realize I am shooting well behind the ducks, or way in front of the pheasants.

As for learning to choose when to shoot, and when to not, there is only one way: experience. This is where a good mentor can be invaluable; yet there are those who just cannot seem to figure it, those who just cannot not empty their gun at every flush or pass, no matter how fruitless the chance. If that bothers you, then don't hunt with them.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

On one hand I get the point of the original post - practicing wingshooting skills is a desireable / ethical consideration; even more so for those new(er) to wingshooting.

On the other hand, shooting clays teaches nothing about shot selection, and can confound effective shooting on waterfowl (with steel shot clipping along 40-60% faster than many/most lead loads).

I have been wingshooting for a few decades, waterfowl and upland. I usually make doubles on Huns a couple times a year, occasional triples on ducks, and have knocked more than one honker from the sky at a time. I have also thrown pounds, literally, of lead in an attempt to bring a bird or two home for supper. I have missed more teals than I have ever hit, I have listed to (many) more than one rooster cackle his disparaging laugh at me after throwing two rounds in his general direction, usually under 30 yards...

My greatest challenge seems to be adjusting back and forth between steel and lead. Some days it takes me a few birds, sometimes many, to realize I am shooting well behind the ducks, or way in front of the pheasants.

As for learning to choose when to shoot, and when to not, there is only one way: experience. This is where a good mentor can be invaluable; yet there are those who just cannot seem to figure it, those who just cannot not empty their gun at every flush or pass, no matter how fruitless the chance. If that bothers you, then don't hunt with them.

The average target loads being used, are around 1200fps, while the average steel load is around 1500fps,for a difference much closer to 25%. Yes you can get steel loads rated at 1700fps, just as you can get target loads rated at 1400fps, but I am talking average loads.The difference in lead required for a 1200fps load compared to a 1500fps load is around a foot at 40 yards on a 90 degree target. So in that situation, the difference could result in a missed or wounded bird. Then again, the average shot on birds is not 40 yards for most people, and most shots are not 90 degree passing shots. So while switching back and forth may result in the odd miss, at most distances, and shot angles, if you center your pattern where it should be with one load, a change of 300fps velocity, is still going to have the bird within the effective pattern, which in most cases is considered to be 30". And when you are talking ducks or geese dropping into decoys, at 20-30 yards, or upland birds flushing at 20 yards, that difference in velocity is pretty much insignificant.
As for shot selection, you are correct, some people just feel compelled to empty their gun, even at waterfowl or upland birds at 70 to 80 yards, because they believe that a slim chance is better than no chance, and they just don't care that they are wounding far more birds than they recover by doing this.

[angery jonn]

I wish there was a soap box emoji

[The Spank]

Originally Posted by drake

It been my experience that the guys who brag the most about their "orange disk shooting prowess" are the worst when it comes to live targets.....and the worst to share a blind with.

My experience has been the opposite. I've shared many a blind with top notch skeet, trap and sporting clays shooters and very, very few of them were poor wing shots. In fact hunting with them was alot easier on the pocket book as they didn't require backup to fill their game bag.

[The Spank]

Originally Posted by drake

It been my experience that the guys who brag the most about their "orange disk shooting prowess" are the worst when it comes to live targets.....and the worst to share a blind with.

My experience has been the opposite. I've shared many a blind with top notch skeet, trap and sporting clays shooters and very, very few of them were poor wing shots. In fact hunting with them was alot easier on the pocket book as they didn't require backup to fill their game bag.

As for calculating percentages? Save it for the clay games. Hunting is not a competition so classification is a moot point!!

This has to be the most assinine thread of the year...

[The Spank]

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