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View Poll Results: Do you believe in evolution or creation?
Creation 119 29.38%
Evolution 286 70.62%
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  #151  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:46 AM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Nature by numbers.

A great short animated film.

Enjoy and open your mind.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYOFoA
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  #152  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Yet not a sparrow falls to the ground without your father knowing.

Matthew 10:29

Grizz
What about the mother knowing?

Moms always know.
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  #153  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wolf308 View Post
Oh boy. Here we go.

Sure there's evolution .... By His design !
Or her design...

Have faith in hard work, blood, sweat, tears and laughter...things fall into place then. Amen!
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  #154  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
This thread has been pretty tame compared to others in the past. But the mods rule on religion is likely a very good one. Nothing gets solved. No one's mind gets changed.
yup ... but these thread's help a guy weed out the
nut job's as to people with an open mind ...
  #155  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by silverdoctor View Post
Half life of atoms is a constant - Uranium-238 has a half life of some 4.5 billion years. Oldest rocks found on earth are some 3.5 billion years old. How is it known that the earth formed some 4.6 billions of years ago? Not by rocks on earth - but by meteorites that fall to earth. The oldest rock known is in the asteroid belt between Jupiter and Mars.

How does geology know that a meteor hit the Yucatan Peninsula some 65 million years ago? By the dirt layer it left and elements contained within that layer. Created a layer all around the earth. How do they know dinosaurs weren't killed off by said meteor? Because no dino fossils were found in said layer.

The most accurate clock on earth is actually atomic - uses cesium atoms which has a very specific frequency and half life. If science didn't know these atoms, we would never keep time, GPS wouldn't work.

Science is wonderful, embrace it.


And folks, relax, no sense in fighting everything. Have a conversation - not a war.
X2
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #156  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
Macro evolution is just a ton of micro evolution that it was build on. You already had one person in this thread show where he personally works with evolution in his lab.

Here is a fish that walks like land vertebrates.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/s...s-do.html?_r=0

Here you can watch evolution in action actually filmed:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...action/499136/
Cool vid
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #157  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:02 AM
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Numbers don't lie...2/3rds evolution, 1/3rd creation...nuff said.
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  #158  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bb356 View Post
yup ... but these thread's help a guy weed out the
nut job's as to people with an open mind ...
Very true, BB. Opens your eyes when guys you thought you were forum friendly with start taking potshots at you. Disappointing, but it is what it is. For the life of me, I do not understand why people get so bent out of shape over stuff that really doesn't affect them in the slightest. I mean you could worship Puff the Magic Dragon, but that wouldn't change you being a nice guy. It just makes no sense.

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  #159  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:25 AM
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Very true, BB. Opens your eyes when guys you thought you were forum friendly with start taking potshots at you. Disappointing, but it is what it is. For the life of me, I do not understand why people get so bent out of shape over stuff that really doesn't affect them in the slightest. I mean you could worship Puff the Magic Dragon, but that wouldn't change you being a nice guy. It just makes no sense.

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Don't sweat it man ... it's the net ...

no ... I can't say that ...

dishonest people that for their own pleasure sometime's ...

I can't say that

... bottom line ... you can connect with people on the net ... but a meeting and a hand shake go a long way .

Last edited by bb356; 06-11-2017 at 08:35 AM.
  #160  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:26 AM
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Bingo

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  #161  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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Stats say AOF had 65000+ members.

Apparently the vast majority are fishing ... not voting
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #162  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:32 AM
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Do one of you have an answer for the mathematical impossibility of evolution using the time-frame of 4 - 5 billion years?
  #163  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Trochu View Post
I don't know, maybe. I think of a box containing a disassembled Rolex, shaking it for a billion years, and opening the box and finding an assembled, working Rolex, similar to evolutionary belief. Doubt it would happen. Even if it did, doesn't explain were the pieces came from in the first place. The other issued being the human body is exponentially more complex than a Rolex and scores of others I'm not getting into.
Evolutionist logic claims you would shake the Rolex parts and eventually a fish would swim out...
  #164  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:42 AM
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Do one of you have an answer for the mathematical impossibility of evolution using the time-frame of 4 - 5 billion years?
Pie R squared x 7.2 mm ???

  #165  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Evolutionist logic claims you would shake the Rolex parts and eventually a fish would swim out...
Put it in the ground something will happen to it, some form of life will break it down and use it eventually...might not come out going tick toc but will turn into poop eventually ...
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  #166  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bb356 View Post
Pie R squared x 7.2 mm ???

Oh my...is that the result of evolution?

Or was it created?

I'm stumped.
  #167  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Do one of you have an answer for the mathematical impossibility of evolution using the time-frame of 4 - 5 billion years?
What would lead you to believe its mathematically impossible? Please put forth an argument on the mathematics of it being impossible and I'll be glad to explain the true mathematics of it.

Last edited by Big Thumper; 06-11-2017 at 09:19 AM.
  #168  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:55 AM
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Do one of you have an answer for the mathematical impossibility of evolution using the time-frame of 4 - 5 billion years?
Institute for creation research? I find it interesting that people question the ideal of long term evolution. First life on earth is estimated to have shown up less than 4 billion years ago, and even then, it definitely wasn't wasn't sentient.

But, lets look at the biblical explanation of life on earth. Some 6000 years ago, Adam and Eve had 2 sons by the name of Cain and Abel. So all life on earth came from the genetics of 2 people. Some 7.5 billion people later - is it possible to have that population of people on the planet in that short of timeframe. Now creationists claim that it is - but one needs to take into account the disasters of the bible. The great flood and Noahs ark for example - some claim doing their own math through ages of individuals in the bible that the flood occurred around 2300 BC and wiped out most life on the planet. Now take into account the millions of people that were killed by disease over the centuries. So in the span of 4300 years - through multiple disasters, people wiped out, how did we get to this population?
  #169  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ReconWilly View Post
Oh my...is that the result of evolution?

Or was it created?

I'm stumped.
Heck if I know ... As long as I don't see the beaver from that time period I'm fine .
  #170  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:57 AM
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  #171  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:05 AM
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So people were asking for proof of evolution that one can actually see.

I posted this video:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...action/499136/

One person, one who already understands evolution, commented on it. The creationists who asked for such an example? Crickets. Nothing but crickets.

Perhaps the reality is that one a person has faith in a philosophy, no matter what evidence, and no matter how conclusive that evidence is, they will stick with their faith. As one bible literalist once said, "If the bible tell me 2+2=5, then I would believe it.".

In fact, it seems that the more evidence one provides, the more rationality that is injected into the conversation, the more those of faith tend to dig in.
  #172  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:18 AM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
So people were asking for proof of evolution that one can actually see.

I posted this video:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...action/499136/

One person, one who already understands evolution, commented on it. The creationists who asked for such an example? Crickets. Nothing but crickets.

Perhaps the reality is that one a person has faith in a philosophy, no matter what evidence, and no matter how conclusive that evidence is, they will stick with their faith. As one bible literalist once said, "If the bible tell me 2+2=5, then I would believe it.".

In fact, it seems that the more evidence one provides, the more rationality that is injected into the conversation, the more those of faith tend to dig in.

Everyone else is playing nice and you word this in a dismissive fashion, why the need to attack those who don't see things the same way?

Once again creation and Christianity are not tied to the hip, one can NOT BE RELIGIOUS AT ALL and still believe in creation.

How do you feel about OTHER RELIGIONS take on creation vs evolution? Why the focus on the one religion that you single out and talk down about so freely?

Are creation or evolution on their own the only two possible answers? or like most things does the truth reside somewhere in the middle?

Anyway here is a fish i caught on Tuesday, i don't care if it was created or if it evolved, it was magnificent either way!
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  #173  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
Very true, BB. Opens your eyes when guys you thought you were forum friendly with start taking potshots at you. Disappointing, but it is what it is. For the life of me, I do not understand why people get so bent out of shape over stuff that really doesn't affect them in the slightest. I mean you could worship Puff the Magic Dragon, but that wouldn't change you being a nice guy. It just makes no sense.

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Seeing as ive lived my life from both sides ill try a answer here. I didnt become a believer till i was in my 50"s. I never gave any thought to why i hated believers i just did. Ive even gotten physical with one or two in fact that were warned to back off back in the day. But then it didnt take much to set me off back then anyhow. I grew up in a very abusive violent home. Anyway, after all who likes being told that they are sinners.

Anyway its a simple answer really. Its in the scriptures in a number of places where Jesus Himself says they will hate us believers cause they hate Him. That doesnt mean all unbelievers but the majority. Ive managed to maintain a friendship with one who didnt dump our friendship after i became a believer even after all these years ive known him. Of course he noticed the changes slowly over time anyhow. But i did with him like i do with others i meet. I will eventually get around to telling them of my belief and why etc. but once only. Im not a real patient guy ( i know im supposed to be as a Christian right?) and would never make a salesman. You dont want what i got, im done telling you.

Its kinda like drinking. I used to drink lots. Long before i became a believer i quit. So i would have a pop or something but you soon realize that makes most drinkers feel uncomfortable around you and you quit getting invited along i found. Same kinda deal here i think somewhat.
  #174  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:42 AM
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It was said before.

Faith is faith

Science is science.

Evolution versus Creationism in root theory has been discussed by the church and the church gave in to science twice before on two critical issues of faith importance. Then the church evolved accordingly.

Creationism in my mind is being hung onto unnecessarily by some old ways of thinking not too dissimilar to my two examples.

What are those examples? The examples that shook the religious community to its core...twice?

First one... Is the earth round or flat? Church said flat. Science said round. Church punished all those that said otherwise. Eventually church gave in as the evidence via science was there...in their face.

Second one... Does the sun revolve around the earth. Church said earth is the center of all. Science said...ummm...science shows the earth revolves around the sun. Church punished all those that said otherwise. Eventually church gave in as the evidence was obvious as proved by science.

We won't even go into the faith based theory that the sky above the clouds holds the heavens that we ascend to after death. We know that within telescope range...way above the clouds are some amazing celestial places...however no definable heaven seen.

So now we have the one last gasp that says creationism is the one true fact. That all science to date and all proof shows just like with the above two examples that science is once again right and the earth is old and animals and plants have evolved over millions of years... the church as some interpret it must adapt. There was a great video that shows evolving bacteria over a short period of time. That being said so many already believe in both is clear.

Faith is about faith.

Science is about science.

Faith is more about a belief in what is the right way to live. The right way to live is evolving with time. Some people need to believe to have a guide in how to behave and act. Others faith is non religious comes from within and a sense of treating others with respect, love, compassion. One doesn't need to believe in a higher power to believe in the same positive behaviors and traits as what some text in some old books and in many situations interpreted and reinterpreted over time says.

Some need faith to see a purpose. Man thinks at a higher plane that animals. We are not all about reproduce, eat, sleep, defecate. We want to know more...learn more...understand why we are here. What processes made us who we are today.

Clearly to me a higher power lives by different sense of time as time is relative and time is pure interpretation. Therego arguing about were dinosaurs here when man walked around (no proof whatsoever) versus the earth evolved over billions of years (loads of proof) and maybe a higher power coaxed it along a certain way could help. Otherwise just believe in both. It doesn't hurt.

Some people need to know there is more to life than this existence. Others make the best of this existence. Others take it for granted...then go to confessional and get in last minute no problem.

Interesting times we live in with all this science stuff. Going to get more and more interesting.

So my take away for myself is that if truly both sides want to be happy and everyone else to be happy and for nobody to hurt another in any way... that should be doable.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #175  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EaWPIlNYY
  #176  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cranky View Post
Seeing as ive lived my life from both sides ill try a answer here. I didnt become a believer till i was in my 50"s.
I really don't see why there has to be two sides. Why are 'believing' and the theories of evolution mutually exclusive?
  #177  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:07 AM
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Do one of you have an answer for the mathematical impossibility of evolution using the time-frame of 4 - 5 billion years?
I'll start looking into it when you clear up all the inconsistencies in the bible.
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  #178  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
It was said before.

Faith is faith

Science is science.

Evolution versus Creationism in root theory has been discussed by the church and the church gave in to science twice before on two critical issues of faith importance. Then the church evolved accordingly.

Creationism in my mind is being hung onto unnecessarily by some old ways of thinking not too dissimilar to my two examples.

What are those examples? The examples that shook the religious community to its core...twice?

First one... Is the earth round or flat? Church said flat. Science said round. Church punished all those that said otherwise. Eventually church gave in as the evidence via science was there...in their face.

Second one... Does the sun revolve around the earth. Church said earth is the center of all. Science said...ummm...science shows the earth revolves around the sun. Church punished all those that said otherwise. Eventually church gave in as the evidence was obvious as proved by science.

We won't even go into the faith based theory that the sky above the clouds holds the heavens that we ascend to after death. We know that within telescope range...way above the clouds are some amazing celestial places...however no definable heaven seen.

So now we have the one last gasp that says creationism is the one true fact. That all science to date and all proof shows just like with the above two examples that science is once again right and the earth is old and animals and plants have evolved over millions of years... the church as some interpret it must adapt. There was a great video that shows evolving bacteria over a short period of time. That being said so many already believe in both is clear.

Faith is about faith.

Science is about science.

Faith is more about a belief in what is the right way to live. The right way to live is evolving with time. Some people need to believe to have a guide in how to behave and act. Others faith is non religious comes from within and a sense of treating others with respect, love, compassion. One doesn't need to believe in a higher power to believe in the same positive behaviors and traits as what some text in some old books and in many situations interpreted and reinterpreted over time says.

Some need faith to see a purpose. Man thinks at a higher plane that animals. We are not all about reproduce, eat, sleep, defecate. We want to know more...learn more...understand why we are here. What processes made us who we are today.

Clearly to me a higher power lives by different sense of time as time is relative and time is pure interpretation. Therego arguing about were dinosaurs here when man walked around (no proof whatsoever) versus the earth evolved over billions of years (loads of proof) and maybe a higher power coaxed it along a certain way could help. Otherwise just believe in both. It doesn't hurt.

Some people need to know there is more to life than this existence. Others make the best of this existence. Others take it for granted...then go to confessional and get in last minute no problem.

Interesting times we live in with all this science stuff. Going to get more and more interesting.

So my take away for myself is that if truly both sides want to be happy and everyone else to be happy and for nobody to hurt another in any way... that should be doable.
Your number one mistake is that assuming because someone is of a religion, they are Roman Catholic. It was the Roman Catholic Church that suppressed any and all forms science and thought that would subvert their iron grip on the average person. If one associates violence with Christianity, they are focusing on the RCC.

You also talk about faith vs science. You need to realize that believing in evolution requires a lot more faith than creation. With creation, there is one event after which anything is possible. With evolution, you must believe in trillions upon trillions upon trillions of events, over unimaginable periods of time, all unguided, uncontrolled, with the end result being the perfect order in nature we see today.

While it may seem I am here to pick fights and argue, I am genuinely interested in everyone's choice of evidence that backs up their belief. While there are a lot of scoffers, very few have given something worthwhile.
  #179  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:27 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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I'll start looking into it when you clear up all the inconsistencies in the bible.
Why can't you look into now? I asked the question, you are clearly unwilling to answer.
  #180  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:29 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
So people were asking for proof of evolution that one can actually see.

I posted this video:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...action/499136/

One person, one who already understands evolution, commented on it. The creationists who asked for such an example? Crickets. Nothing but crickets.

Perhaps the reality is that one a person has faith in a philosophy, no matter what evidence, and no matter how conclusive that evidence is, they will stick with their faith. As one bible literalist once said, "If the bible tell me 2+2=5, then I would believe it.".

In fact, it seems that the more evidence one provides, the more rationality that is injected into the conversation, the more those of faith tend to dig in.
Truly amazing video!!!! Easy to see how viruses can change and adapt ..... dare I say evolve ... quickly to keep attacking.

The interesting thing about faith is its blind. It doesn't matter what you confront it with you either have an open mind or you don't. Years ago I read a book explaining how religion is used to control the masses and it's easy to see it work. That said a little faith never hurt anyone .... to much pointed in the wrong direction and you get extremists.


I'm really great friends with some really religious people. We don't talk about it anymore. They got quite upset when I explained that from my perspective there was no difference between Christians, Muslims, Hindus or someone worshiping a god living in a tree or Zeus.

Why are the Greek Gods just silly stories? Why is the idea of the world coming from a golden egg less believable than coming from an all powerful man floating around that took 7 days to make the entire universe ....
Speaking of that if god didn't make the sun until day 4 how did they measure time?
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