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View Poll Results: Do you believe in evolution or creation?
Creation 119 29.38%
Evolution 286 70.62%
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  #31  
Old 06-10-2017, 04:48 AM
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Newview, do you even realize that a large percentage of people of faith believe that God oversaw an evolutionary process?

I just had to get something IBTL
  #32  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:54 AM
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If you spend any time doing even a cursory review of the structure of animals it becomes pretty clear how evolution has progressed and shaped the planet's plants and animals. (Ever wonder why a whale has a femur? ) 4 billion years is a VERY long time. Hard for many to even fathom.


"The Panda's Thumb" by Stephen Jay Gould is an excellent read. (I'm assuming everyone has already read "On the Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin )

Having said that, if you want to believe in something else, I have no problem with that either. As long as it doesn't affect me negatively.
  #33  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:58 AM
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  #34  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
This is why I hate calling myself an atheist. Why would you mock someone's religion when it has no affect on you? This batch of modern day atheists give atheism a bad name.
  #35  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:03 AM
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So no one can explain to me why were not seeing more species being formed today and in fact seeing extinction? Macro evolution is a theory from the 1800's that IMO has all but been debunked as they have nothing in the fossil record that shows one species changing to another one, and we dont see it happening today.
  #36  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:10 AM
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Default My beliefs?

My belief is people can believe in what they want to believe in.
As long as it doesn't negatively effect me.
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  #37  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
My belief is people can believe in what they want to believe in.
As long as it doesn't negatively effect me.
That pretty well nails it. I would extend that as long as that belief does not negatively anyone else.
  #38  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
This is why I hate calling myself an atheist. Why would you mock someone's religion when it has no affect on you? This batch of modern day atheists give atheism a bad name.
Is this mocking, or is it a thought starter?

I would hope it is the later.
  #39  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
This is why I hate calling myself an atheist. Why would you mock someone's religion when it has no affect on you? This batch of modern day atheists give atheism a bad name.
Religion has an affect on virtually every aspect of our lives. Wars, laws, moral standards....
  #40  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
Unlike religion, one doesn't believe in science.

One understands it. No faith required.
Unless you are testing theories yourself you had better have faith that what you are reading is true.
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  #41  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So no one can explain to me why were not seeing more species being formed today and in fact seeing extinction? Macro evolution is a theory from the 1800's that IMO has all but been debunked as they have nothing in the fossil record that shows one species changing to another one, and we dont see it happening today.
Pretty much my thoughts as well.

There still is no link between apes and humans. Some frauds, some non-starters, but nothing conclusive.
  #42  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:44 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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I was thinking about this last night before falling asleep.

The biggest difference in the two positions is pretty simple.

I read all the time articles that start out with. Amazing discovery will fundamentally change the way we think about ...............could be anything from evolution to space time, to virus to ozone. And people are excited to find that previous thoughts are wrong and can be changed. Never see that with biblical scholars. Oh wait one time when it was articles on the Dead Sea Scrolls and it was more. This fantastic discovery proves we were right.

Science wants to be proven wrong. Can't say the same about the other side.

If civilization was destroyed today and brought anew tomorrow scientific discovery would stay the same, would we say the same about religion?
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From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

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  #43  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:45 AM
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So, answer the questions you were asked... You started the thread, have a creationist ideal, I'm truly interested.
What direct questions have been asked?
  #44  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:52 AM
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There is also the relationship between RNA and DNA, of which I understand very little, but the result is that one is not possible without the other. Unless this can be explained...
  #45  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
This is why I hate calling myself an atheist. Why would you mock someone's religion when it has no affect on you? This batch of modern day atheists give atheism a bad name.
Religion affects all of us , whether we like it or not, as Europeans are constantly reminded, these days.

Grizz
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  #46  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:24 AM
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Watch the movie Year One, that'll sum up all questions and along the way you will have a good laugh.
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
My belief is people can believe in what they want to believe in.
As long as it doesn't negatively effect me.
More importantly negatively effect mankind.
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
More importantly negatively effect mankind.
I'm more concerned about me and my family. Mankind will self destruct with or without religion.
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Carbon dating is only reliable up to 20000 years ago. After that its basically useless. It also assumes that the carbon levels in the atmosphere havent changed during that time.

Scientists have also formed oil in labs using compression and heat in relatively short periods of time.
True for carbon.

However many others.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/know...hods-107924044

I smile that creationists never say time for God had no relative meaning as we understand it.

As such God theoretically could of been playing with Earth for billions of years...maybe even started the process off by patting us into a glowing ball...sending water rich rocks hurtling our way packed with amino acids, carbon etc. Then over time dabbled here...dabbled there...tossed a few rocks our way during intermission of a celestial soccer match. Then wanted the earth to warm up so sent us in for global warming purposes.
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
I'm more concerned about me and my family. Mankind will self destruct with or without religion.
We are all part of the mix, family priorities are always first but like I said we are all part of the mix and that being said we should always be concerned.

Like I said earlier, a good watch for the entire family, the movie year one, it's on Netflix....
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  #51  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:13 AM
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Very cool. 99 million year old preserved bird part found.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ba...aurs-1.4153298

Excellent.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #52  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:15 AM
6.5swedeforelk 6.5swedeforelk is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
This is why I hate calling myself an atheist. Why would you mock someone's religion when it has no affect on you? ...
Any chance that it's an underlying but deep-seated doubt?
If us Christians are wrong, so we've been scoffed... meh.

But what if you're wrong?
  #53  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Carbon dating is only reliable up to 20000 years ago. After that its basically useless. It also assumes that the carbon levels in the atmosphere havent changed during that time.

Scientists have also formed oil in labs using compression and heat in relatively short periods of time.
So you are clear that the earth is at least 20,000 years old then, not 6,000? I mean, if carbon dating is reliable to 20,000 years, then that is the obvious conclusion, right?

Is that what you are saying?
  #54  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:17 AM
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Default One last point (Hopefuly)

Both sides of this issue are pretty dogmatic. To the atheist evolution is the catalyst for there worldview. It is fundemtaly important to them as it gives a means for the existence of life without the divine. Pretty important stuff.

To the creationist it is a slap in the face of God. It is anathema. It is sacrilege. It is mankind being arrogant in assigning mere naturally prosesses to something that proclaims the glory and power of God.

Both sides have a lot of skin in the game and won't likely yield any ground to the other side.

I just thought I would put this forth for both sides to think about when making comments and ask each side to be respectful of the other in what they say.

I am in the God camp. When you tell me my belief In God is like believing in Santa Claus that is very offensive. I am not sayin you don't have the right to be offensive and feel free to continue to do so if that is your choice. I will however have to consider that you are a person of poor character.

Last edited by markg; 06-10-2017 at 09:23 AM.
  #55  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
I believe I see a flat earther poll on the event horizon.
Flat earth?

The U.N. YES the United nations fly a flag that is a map of flat earth.

I want to know what the U.N.'S Motivation for using the flat earth map as their insignia.

Did they create the flat earth movement as a psyop? Or do they know something that they are hiding? Is it predictive programming for future agenda goals?

Science sometimes feels like nothing more than a fanatical religion with a base desire to disprove the existence of God.

I'm neither religious nor atheist, i'm a seeker of the truth.

To much smoke and mirrors for anyone to claim thst they know the whole story...I'm not taking anyone's word for anything, i'll keep digging until i figure it out for myself.
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  #56  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:25 AM
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Creationism.
And Santa Claus.
And the Easter Bunny.
And the tooth fairy.
Yeah!
  #57  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:26 AM
alta270 alta270 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg View Post
Both sides of this issue are pretty dogmatic. To the atheist evolution is the catalyst for there worldview. It is fundemtaly important to them as it gives a means for the existence of life without the divine. Pretty important stuff.

To the creationist it is a slap in the face of God. It is anathema. It is sacrilege. It is mankind being arrogant in assigning mere naturally prosesses to something that proclaims the glory and power of God.

Both sides have a lot of skin in the game and won't likely yield any ground to the other side.

I just thought I would put this forth for both sides to think about when making comments and ask each side to be respectful of the other in what they say.

I am in the God camp. When you tell me my belief In God is like believing in Santa Claus that is very offensive. I am not sayin you don't have the right to be offensive and feel free to continue to do so if that is your choice. I will however have to consider that you are a person of poor character.
Perhaps a good question to ask is, how did you come about to believe what you do, and how do you know it is true? Could you be wrong?
  #58  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
I'd say hangovers are a bigger limitation to the human mind than religion
True enough
  #59  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
What do you believe in? And what is a piece of conclusive evidence you use to support your belief?

I believe the fact that geneticists have proven that rarely, if ever, does a mutation provide new or useful information. Given this fact, it is mathematically impossible to have the life we do today in the timeframe proposed.

In addition, nobody has explained what cause the Big Bang, where the matter was prior, so on and so forth. There are numerous theories but nothing has been proven.

In short, one needs more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in creation.
I think it's easier to believe in evolutionary changes over millions of years than it is to believe there is a magic man in the sky that pointed his finger and poof. There was the earth.

I have some pretty firmly held beliefs about religion so I think from this point forward I'll watch until this one gets locked.
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  #60  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So no one can explain to me why were not seeing more species being formed today and in fact seeing extinction? Macro evolution is a theory from the 1800's that IMO has all but been debunked as they have nothing in the fossil record that shows one species changing to another one, and we dont see it happening today.
Through natural selection, the formation of new, distinct species takes thousands upon thousands of years, so, you will not see it 'today' but if you stick around for a few hundred thousand years and you will see new species.
Your second statement of nothing in the fossil record showing one species changing into another is not really what evolutionist propose. What they do propose is that some species have a common ancestor and they are many, many fossil records showing this.
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