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12-20-2013, 06:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 222
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Buying a truck with a lien
So I bought a truck about a year and a half ago, wrote it off couple weeks ago and get a call from the insurance company today, turns out the 4500 dollar truck I bought with cash has a lien against it, so now the check I was suppose to get from the insurance company to replace it isn't coming in... Now what? Do I contact the seller and threaten with small claims court? Or just cut my losses?
Anyone else deal with this before? What can I do?
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12-20-2013, 06:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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verify the date the lien was placed, if after you bought it it is invalid
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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12-20-2013, 06:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 222
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It was before I bought it, he used it as collateral for child maintenance or something... My insurance company would not tell me how much it's for...
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12-20-2013, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 960
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Unfortunately I think you're SOL. I always do a title check on used vehicles at the local Registry Office.
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12-20-2013, 06:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 222
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Haha, everyone I've talked to asked me why I didn't do that.. Didnt think of it. It was 99 f250. Figured it was good. Lesson learned.. I still have the bill of sale, he checked off the box that says free of liens... I guess you can't trust people... Lesson learned.
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12-20-2013, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icouldeatababydeer
Haha, everyone I've talked to asked me why I didn't do that.. Didnt think of it. It was 99 f250. Figured it was good. Lesson learned.. I still have the bill of sale, he checked off the box that says free of liens... I guess you can't trust people... Lesson learned.
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You might have a leg to stand on.
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12-20-2013, 06:53 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooter
Unfortunately I think you're SOL. I always do a title check on used vehicles at the local Registry Office.
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Always check, tho likely too late- even now i would have one done.
Last truck i bought i checked right @ last minute. Found lien , called seller & it turned out it was on from the guy he bought it from. Bank had been lazy/cheap & not pulled the lien off. Turned out all good, for the $25 it's worth a try. Sucks big time, wish u luck in this :-)
Creeky
Forgot to add, i wouldn't take any insurances companies word, (not all that swift nor trustworthy). Do your own investigating.
Last edited by creeky; 12-20-2013 at 06:59 PM.
Reason: add info
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12-20-2013, 06:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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12-20-2013, 06:56 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 49
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you can do your own lien check on it right now and find out the amount.
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12-20-2013, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingMOM
You might have a leg to stand on.
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X2
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12-20-2013, 07:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 222
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Got his name address and phone number, but phone number isn't in service, did a 411 search on him, when I bought the truck he lived in Whitecourt, 411 came up with a fella with the same name in Edmonton, called it. The guy on the other end said he gets calls regularly for the other guy from people looking for money or from collection agencies...
This sucks,
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12-20-2013, 07:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icouldeatababydeer
Got his name address and phone number, but phone number isn't in service, did a 411 search on him, when I bought the truck he lived in Whitecourt, 411 came up with a fella with the same name in Edmonton, called it. The guy on the other end said he gets calls regularly for the other guy from people looking for money or from collection agencies...
This sucks,
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Talk to Ken
He is a bill collector that you dont ever want to mess with.
He will straighten this out for you
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12-20-2013, 07:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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I can maybe help. PM if you want.
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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12-20-2013, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette
I can maybe help. PM if you want.
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Ken... If I ever crossed you in a post... I am sorry.
Did I mention I think bill collectors are nice folks.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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12-20-2013, 08:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette
still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency
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I think I know a guy in the business...
__________________
Jay: Mostly harmless...
Time, it makes you old. Experience makes you wise. It's only a fool who judges life by what he sees in other peoples' eyes.
- Strung Out
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams
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12-20-2013, 11:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 9,677
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My sister got a call long after she bought her car. It had a lien. Prior to her buying it a bank screwed up and never removed it. Hope that's the case for you. Sucks if you lose out on the payout.
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12-20-2013, 11:56 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette
still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency
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Ken, someone needs to follow you with a camera... it would be so fun to watch!
__________________
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait ....
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12-21-2013, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 815
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but how does someone check for liens? I buy quite a bit of used beaters and I always wondered what the procedure is.
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12-21-2013, 09:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 222
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Apparently you that the VIN to the registries and they can look it up...
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12-21-2013, 09:34 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 163
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I was always under the impression you couldn't register a vehicle with a lein on it. Guess that was wrong. Sorry for you troubles.
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12-21-2013, 09:41 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flange
I was always under the impression you couldn't register a vehicle with a lein on it. Guess that was wrong. Sorry for you troubles.
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Exactly what happened to my buddy. He bought a sled with a lein on it and they would not register it or give him a plate for it. He was SOL.
__________________
Smoke or Fire in the Forest Dial 310-FIRE
thegungirl.ca @gmail.com
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12-21-2013, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,197
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A Lein does not mean somebody else owns your truck. It means they have a claim against it. Start by telling your insurer you don't consent to the funds going to the Lein holder.
Then send the Lein holder a letter asking for proof of a debt or to remove the Lein. (Fair trade act - Ken will know more with his line of work)
There is a ton of info about this on the net. A Lein is not a set in stone debt obligation to the current owner of property, it has to be substantiated. The lousy thing is it might cost you some $$ hiring a lawyer to be rid of it.
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12-21-2013, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,368
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Take him to court.
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12-21-2013, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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I would send a copy of your bill of sale to your insurance co so they hold the money until you can prove it's cleared.
Once they send the money it's always tougher to get it back.
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12-21-2013, 10:40 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumoulin
Take him to court.
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What good will become of that? He already owes money to somebody, now your going to sue him for more, court costs, legal fees loss of income. etc. And expect to collect your loss?
Laws are set up for the criminal not the law abiding citizen. Good luck if ya try and come out ahead. Or at par.
__________________
Smoke or Fire in the Forest Dial 310-FIRE
thegungirl.ca @gmail.com
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12-21-2013, 10:47 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 134
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Every time I've purchased a used item that requires registration, registries has done a lien search before registering that item in my name. What happened here?
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12-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,692
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So much misinformation
It's hard to know where to start...?
A "lien" can be a security interest (essentially a mortgage or lease, or lease option) or a writ of enforcement (the holder of a court judgment who has registered against the specific "serial number goods" - which includes motor vehicles). Except in the case of a writ, the registration does not tell you an amount. When you are registering your vehicle for licensing, with your bill of sale, the registry may do a lien search, but generally, not. The only search they do is to ensure the seller has the current or last license registration (i.e., he is the registered owner, or a licensed dealer with authority to transfer title, and the like).
A security interest registration is just electronic and does not require any filing of documents or disclosure of amount. As such it may or may not be valid, or may be expired - the banks and the rinky dink lenders and finance companies are often quite negligent in not discharging the registration unless specifically demanded, after payout. People who are owed money but don't have any signed security often think they can claim such an interest and register.
It is all governed by the Personal Property Security Act ("PPSA") and Civil Enforcement Act - the Fair Trading Act has nothing to do with this. Basically,if someone with a legitimate security interest has registered it before the purchaser acquires their interest, the interest holder retains their claim in priority to the purchaser. There is a process under PPSA to force the security claimant to prove their interest, available to anyone with a defined interest, including a purchaser.
So, anyone buying any vehicle, regardless of age, does so at their peril if they don't first do a lien search and ensure any registrations are removed as part of the process - it is common for the seller and purchaser to meet at the seller's bank to ensure the money goes to first clear the lien, and discharge is effected - just like the existing mortgae on the house one is buying.
You can do a lien search right now (any registry agent) and then force the claimant to "prove it" - the insurance company is equally able, and in fact required, to do this. If they do not, and the lien is not valid, they are negligent. If the lien is valid, then the holder gets the money, to the extent of their claim.
If the seller made a false representation of no liens on the bill of sale, innocently or otherwise, you basically have an "airtight" case for a civil claim in court, and I would go after him in all events. But, you will need all the info on the lien as the evidence in your case, so.. back to "get it". and include all your costs of getting the evidence, and any collateral costs and damages you suffered. The amounts here make it hard to justify getting a lawyer involved, but if the seller looks "solvent" then that may well be the way to go.
Getting a judgment is one thing - collecting is another. Your first clue that the seller is a deadbeat who will be hard to collect from is the very fact of his false representation (?).
There is more ... it is not necessarily as simple as all that ... but, if it were me, I would pursue the seller to his deathbed (?).
The "moral", however, is do not ever buy a vehicle, from anyone other than a licensed new car dealer (who is insured for such events) (I have seen cases of pure used car dealers who negligently or fraudulently sold liened vehicles), without first searching by both seller name and serial number!! EVER!!
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12-21-2013, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: whitecourt
Posts: 1,183
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if hes from whitecourt pm me I may know him or be able to track him down for you.
ALWAYS LEIN CHECK ON VEH. PURCHSE!!
__________________
a 7mm will drop anything LIVING THE DREAM!!! I get to goto work and play with guns and bows all day!!
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12-21-2013, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda450
What good will become of that? He already owes money to somebody, now your going to sue him for more, court costs, legal fees loss of income. etc. And expect to collect your loss?
Laws are set up for the criminal not the law abiding citizen. Good luck if ya try and come out ahead. Or at par.
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That's not point. You got to try. The guys a thief. Thrives are chicken sh!t. He might cough up some dough for him once he's been served.
You don't need to haul in a 1000$/hour layer for this. If I were were him, I'd get legal advice and do it on my own. Worth a swing anyway....
See schmelap's post.
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12-21-2013, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,283
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I was taught by the age of 14 to do lien checks. This was almost 20 years ago. This was also way better advice than having to ask a lawyer for advice after it was too late or having to interpret buy sell laws....
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