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Old 02-25-2024, 07:29 AM
Irina Irina is online now
 
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Default Book length or to the lands?

What's everyone's choice? Book length or to the lands. I can do both. Some say go book length and they get awesome accuracy, others say 20 thou off the lands. I know the only way is to try both, just wanted thoughts on this. It's for a 223, 77 smk.
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:39 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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I don’t know anyone that says go SAAMI length for best accuracy.
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Old 02-25-2024, 07:51 AM
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SAAMI specs are simply a standard, for chamber lengths and cartridge lengths.
There is no set " best accuracy" , every rifle will be different when it comes to truly finding the most accurate load, or the best load for a hunting rifle.
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Old 02-25-2024, 08:02 AM
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Load development, trial and error tells the story in the end, no book can make that happen, it's just a starting point
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Old 02-25-2024, 08:48 AM
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I don't pay any attention to the book length.
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Old 02-25-2024, 09:33 AM
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Best accuracy, start out just kissing the lands and work shorter. If mag fit is a consideration, start at max mag and work shorter. You may or may not end up at SAAMI. One thing I know for sure, Barnes seem to like a lot of Jump, I usually start them at least .010 off and work shorter. Most are happiest at .050 to .1 off the lands.

When I develop a hunting load I start at max mag, or .005 off the lands, work up the max charge, then look for the best COAL. In my experience seating depth is often as or more important than the charge weight. I have seen seating depth shrink groups 80%, at the same charge. This method gives me top velocity and top accuracy.

Last edited by Dean2; 02-25-2024 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-25-2024, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Best accuracy, start out just kissing the lands and work shorter. If mag fit is a consideration, start at max mag and work shorter. You may or may not end up at SAAMI. One thing I know for sure, Barnes seem to like a lot of Jump, I usually start them at least .010 off and work shorter. Most are happiest at .050 to .1 off the lands.
^^ this^^
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Old 02-25-2024, 09:43 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I start Barnes at .050" , for the simple reason that they don't usually do their best much closer, and I have seen pressure spikes at .020" or less. I start cup and core hunting loads at .010", and then try more jump if necessary. Target loads typically end up with a slight jump, but in some cases, I actually jam them into the lands.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 02-25-2024 at 10:02 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2024, 09:47 AM
Irina Irina is online now
 
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I've loaded up some 77 Sierra match kings 20 thou off the lands. So I guess I will see how they shoot. Just got second guessing and thought maybe I should take some seated to book length that seem to work for ar guns in the states when I go to the range
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Old 02-26-2024, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
When I develop a hunting load I start at max mag, or .005 off the lands, work up the max charge, then look for the best COAL. In my experience seating depth is often as or more important than the charge weight. I have seen seating depth shrink groups 80%, at the same charge. This method gives me top velocity and top accuracy.
x2, except I start a bit shorter. Usually 0.015" off the lands. 0.005" seems to be cutting it a bit close for a hunting round.

I also, don't sweat 1/2" groups from a hunting rifle anymore. As long as I'm getting good consistency with decent accuracy I'm good.
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Old 02-26-2024, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irina View Post
I've loaded up some 77 Sierra match kings 20 thou off the lands. So I guess I will see how they shoot. Just got second guessing and thought maybe I should take some seated to book length that seem to work for ar guns in the states when I go to the range
Is it for field use or target shooting?
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Old 02-26-2024, 11:44 AM
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x2, except I start a bit shorter. Usually 0.015" off the lands. 0.005" seems to be cutting it a bit close for a hunting round.

I also, don't sweat 1/2" groups from a hunting rifle anymore. As long as I'm getting good consistency with decent accuracy I'm good.
Reason I start that close is it gives me max pressure from having so little jump, when I am looking for max charge weight. Pressure tends to drop as you seat deeper and the bullet has more runway before hitting the lands, same theory as the long free bore on Weatherby. That holds true at least within reason for deeper, if you cut enough capacity going too deep you can start to up pressure again but .1 to .15 deeper has never caused pressure to go back up.
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Old 02-26-2024, 01:16 PM
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10 thou off the lands is the goal, or was when I started reloading. Worked until I got to 204R. lol (and I kow why)

Since I only really shoot centerfire for hunting (don't need a ton) and prefer Tikka, reloading is more a hobby than a need. Down to only a couple of rifles I'd even load for, if I find my 22Hornet...the number will be 3. With the price of components in recent years, I'm only really shooting rimfire/shotgun for fun.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2024, 02:17 PM
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The rifles magazine length often determines if you can change seating depth from Saami specs .
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Old 02-26-2024, 03:18 PM
Irina Irina is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Is it for field use or target shooting?
Target shootin. I modded my magazine so it will except any length.
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Old 02-26-2024, 04:05 PM
fps plus fps plus is offline
 
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Unfortunately every firearm reacts differently , so the only way is to try different length in yours . The joys of reloading .
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2024, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irina View Post
Target shootin. I modded my magazine so it will except any length.
For strictly Target I always work from jamming the lands to touching the lands first. Most times I end up roughly half way there.

I find jam and note the OAL, then I find touch and note the OAL. From there I load starting about 1/3 of the way from the bottom of the recommended powder charge to a bit over max in .3 gr. increments. I load these at jam minus .002, 3 rounds of each charge. Fire these at a target, different point for each working up the charge weights until you see signs of pressure, stop there. I use a heavier bolt lift to say enough. When you see pressure that minus .3 gr. is max load. Now of the groups you see one will be best and hopefully the ones on each side will be better as well. That is your powder load. The using that powder load, load 3 rounds at the powder load and length that was .002 short of jam, then load another 3 same powder load but back off the length another .003, then another load -.006, etc. Work your way back .003 at a time till you are about .010 short of touch, should work out to about 10 rounds of three.

One of those will be best. Then using that length you can try some loads .2 grs of powder on each side. Should be in a good range.

Too find jam I use and empty case that has the primer removed, it needs to be sized to hold the bullet. Put the bullet in the case and load it too long. Lightly wax the bullet put it into the chamber and close the bolt. The bolt should force the bullet into the case and when you open it it should stay, it has been jammed into the case. Measure the OAL and repeat a few times with fresh case to make sure they grip the bullet tightly and find a consistent measurement.

To find touch use the jammed case and set the bullet .0010 deeper for the first try. Pull the bolt from the rifle and place cartridge into the rifle using a finger to push the case onto the chamber. Turn rifle barrel up, the case with the bullet in it should not fall out. I use a cleaning rod and gently tap it out from the muzzle end. Now working in .002 increments move the bullet deeper into the case. Work until the cartridge falls out when you point the muzzle up. When it falls out that measurement plus .002 is touch.

I find most times the most accurate load is between touch and jam although some rifles like to be out of the rifling completely. Most rifles have a range of roughly .020 between jam and touch. Please note field rifles should be loaded out of the lands, so shorter than touch so as to avoid a stuck bullet. Having said that I am usually between touch and jam and have never had trouble with stuck bullets.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2024, 08:51 PM
Irina Irina is online now
 
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Thanks to everyone for the help!
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2024, 11:20 PM
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When I am custom loading for my individual rifle, I fit the cartridges to my individual rifle. By seating the bullet to fit it and working up the powder charge to fit it individually. The manual is a guideline to follow while working up your own custom hand load to fit your own rifle. This is done by carefully measuring and weighing and carefully looking for signs of under and over pressure.
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