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  #211  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:11 AM
flint flint is offline
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Already done! My opinion stays the same.

I find a blend of science and anecdotal evidence typically gets you closer to the truth than solely relying on one or the other. To discount either is not productive.
Sounds like you are giving up on our debate.
  #212  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:16 AM
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Rack... I put three Bergers through a ram at 80 yards as fast as I could work the bolt. Just because him walking 10 yards and dropping was going to cause a lot more work for my day. He was dead on the first one but I missed the spine and shoulder so he never dropped. The last was a shot through the length of the body and guess what? That Berger exited - at 80 yards too. hmmm.
No doubt shooting an animal till he drops is my motto as well. I would do it with any bullet and dont like to give an animal much time to make many moves after they have been shot once.

I've never personally used the Berger, but I do appreciate its a great bullet for its purpose and seems to perform really well for those who use it.

What I do have an issue with is guys (few of em here) who dont seem to fully comprehend the subject throwing around nonsense about a bullet like the TSX. I'm not really about 'bashing' a different brand to make myself feel good. I like the TSX and choose to shoot it, but I also respect that the Berger is putting a pile of meat on the ground as well...
  #213  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hooter View Post
Ok, enough of the back and forth bantering already!Let's stay on topic here and quit with all the bad mouthing and bashing. Opinions are good, but I wanted opinions based on personal experience, not on whims, made up numbers and calculations, etc.

Thanks to all those that provided good and informative feedback.

-Trevor




I have a great pic of the damage a 200 grain AB did to the rib cage of a bull elk that we took after he was skinned out. No bullet pic though; it kept penetrating after it ran out of elk. But I don't know how to resize it so it will upload. Anyone care to help a brother out with this one?
  #214  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:28 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flint View Post
I can just see the Barnes bullet avocates rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. Chuck, you just took all credability away with this post and proven to non-Barnes users that this bullet is subordinate to the true expansion bullets. You are right that " holes kill ". When using Barnes bullets "lots" of holes are needed. Out of 98 big game animals 95% were one shot kills using Nosler Ballistic Tips except for one, I used a TSX. That lung shot buck ran over 500 yards before fall over dead. If it wasen't for wide open country and snow I would of lost the buck . The 1% were a finishing neck shot. The TSX is a relativily new bullet and in recent years I have heard many stories from my hunting clients and other hunters of lost animals because of the these narrow expansion projectiles. The Barnes bullets is the closest thing to a FMJ. Chuck, take some advice from experience for a change.
Well, here is where the rubber meets the road. Your 98 big game animals are not going to win any volume competitions here. But your lack of use of the Barnes TSX just might. I have shot big game with Nosler Ballistic Tips, Winchester Fail Safes, Nosler Partitions, Nosler Partition Golds, Nosler Accubonds, Hornady Interlocks, Speer Grand Slams, Speer Hot Cores, Speer Boat Tails, Swift A-Frames, Swift Sciroccos, Barnes X, Barnes TSX, Barnes TTSX, Barnes XLC and I'm sure I'm missing some. Not to mention the volumes of game I've seen shot by hunting partners. I have shot, and seen shot, more game with Barnes bullets than any of them. Why? Because they work when things aren't perfect. Have I seen some things that make me go Hmmm when using them. I have. Two years ago I had a Mule Deer buck shot at 391 yds through both lungs run a LONG ways after being hit. People that post here witnessed it first hand, heck I even have it on video. I will contend that I darn well hit him to high, but that is another story. You also see the picture of the photos I took of the TSX that didn't expand at all. The deer hit with that bullet went all of three feet. But you know what, I am still using them and in fact bought a bunch more yesterday. I am under no illusion that any bullet works perfectly every time. In fact I think I just said the more game I shoot the less I know for sure.

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Last edited by Pathfinder76; 04-10-2010 at 09:33 AM.
  #215  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:31 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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The TSX is a relativily new bullet and in recent years I have heard many stories from my hunting clients and other hunters of lost animals because of the these narrow expansion projectiles.
I have heard many more horror stories from other hunters about animals lost because Ballistic Tips did not hold together and penetrate properly.

The Ballistic Tip is by far the most bad mouthed hunting bullet on most hunting and shooting forums.
  #216  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:43 AM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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[QUOTE=Rackmastr;559093]
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post

Thats just crazy talk Chuck! Everyone knows that the TSX is a bullet that just simply doesnt work. Heck...3 shots at an elk. Everyone knows that if you shoot a bullet the like the Berger that the animals just fall into the back of your truck.

Jeez havent you watched any TV lately????

Its amazing guys like us are even killing so many big game animals with such an inhumane bullet....
Trev that is enough. I asked a question to chuck he answered I laughed and that was it. I was not putting down anything. I took back that a long time ago. I dont like them for my own reasons.





Rich shut the hell up your are starting to sound smart with your wisdom. Is tj helping you with your responces?
  #217  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:45 AM
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Chuck, I just purchased two boxes of TSX's based on some of your testimonials and recommendations in another thread. If that moose doesn't fall back into the boat....I'm blaming you.
  #218  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have heard many more horror stories from other hunters about animals lost because Ballistic Tips did not hold together and penetrate properly.

The Ballistic Tip is by far the most bad mouthed hunting bullet on most hunting and shooting forums.
Add my name to the list. Had a major failure with one this past season like I've never had with any other bullet including Interlocks which is about as cheap as they come, next to Remington or Winchester bulk bullets in the plastic bag....
  #219  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by gitrdun View Post
Chuck, I just purchased two boxes of TSX's based on some of your testimonials and recommendations in another thread. If that moose doesn't fall back into the boat....I'm blaming you.
Deal.
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  #220  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:57 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Add my name to the list. Had a major failure with one this past season like I've never had with any other bullet including Interlocks which is about as cheap as they come, next to Remington or Winchester bulk bullets in the plastic bag....
I have never had a Ballistic Tip fail,then again,I haven't had a TSX or TTSX fail either.My point is that I judge bullets by the results that I see for myself,not by the many stories that I am told.I have heard of many instances where bullets were blamed when animals ran off after supposedly being shot properly.Well guess what,those animals that I helped track and recover were not hit properly after all.It is much easier to blame poor bullet performance than to accept that the shooter did not do his job properly.
  #221  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:03 AM
gitrdun gitrdun is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have never had a Ballistic Tip fail,then again,I haven't had a TSX or TTSX fail either.My point is that I judge bullets by the results that I see for myself,not by the many stories that I am told.I have heard of many instances where bullets were blamed when animals ran off after supposedly being shot properly.Well guess what,those animals that I helped track and recover were not hit properly after all.It is much easier to blame poor bullet performance than to accept that the shooter did not do his job properly.
Agreed, and as I did in the thread that I had started back then, I'll admit to being partially to blame for not doing my homework. But I believe it was Dick that had posted a picture of cross-sectioned bullets where you could clearly see the thin walled jacket in the .277 cals as compared to a much thicker wall in the .284 bullets. Nosler was being critized for the .284 bullets not knocking the 500 yard rams so they thickened the jacket but apparently ignored doing so in the .277 cals, thus a much more frangible bullet than desirable.
  #222  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:09 AM
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Agreed, and as I did in the thread that I had started back then, I'll admit to being partially to blame for not doing my homework. But I believe it was Dick that had posted a picture of cross-sectioned bullets were you could clearly see the thin walled jacket in the .277 cals as compared to a much thicker wall in the .284 bullets. Nosler was being critized for the .284 bullets not knocking the 500 yard rams so they thickened the jacket but apparently ignored doing so in the .277 cals, thus a much more frangible bullet than desirable.
I would just blame it on the fact that you were using a 270 instead of a 280.
  #223  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:10 AM
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I would just blame it on the fact that you were using a 270 instead of a 280.
Oh no.....not another one. I pray Lee doesn't see this or I won't be able to shut him up all day long.....
  #224  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:14 AM
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Oh no.....not another one. I pray Lee doesn't see this or I won't be able to shut him up all day long...
That extra .007" of bullet would have been all jacket.
  #225  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Well, here is where the rubber meets the road. Your 98 big game animals are not going to win any volume competitions here. But your lack of use of the Barnes TSX just might. I have shot big game with Nosler Ballistic Tips, Winchester Fail Safes, Nosler Partitions, Nosler Partition Golds, Nosler Accubonds, Hornady Interlocks, Speer Grand Slams, Speer Hot Cores, Speer Boat Tails, Swift A-Frames, Swift Sciroccos, Barnes X, Barnes TSX, Barnes TTSX, Barnes XLC and I'm sure I'm missing some. Not to mention the volumes of game I've seen shot by hunting partners. I have shot, and seen shot, more game with Barnes bullets than any of them. Why? Because they work when things aren't perfect. Have I seen some things that make me go Hmmm when using them. I have. Two years ago I had a Mule Deer buck shot at 391 yds through both lungs run a LONG ways after being hit. People that post here witnessed it first hand, heck I even have it on video. I will contend that I darn well hit him to high, but that is another story. You also see the picture of the photos I took of the TSX that didn't expand at all. The deer hit with that bullet went all of three feet. But you know what, I am still using them and in fact bought a bunch more yesterday. I am under no illusion that any bullet works perfectly every time. In fact I think I just said the more game I shoot the less I know for sure.

Dang Chuck,

That deer has a tripod growing out of his left antler. No wonder he was so hard to kill
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  #226  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:21 AM
Rackmastr Rackmastr is offline
 
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Trev that is enough. I asked a question to chuck he answered I laughed and that was it. I was not putting down anything. I took back that a long time ago. I dont like them for my own reasons.
I think I'll decide when its enough thanks. I dont need someone to tell me.

I have seen enough ignorance in this thread that I can make a comment like I made in jest. If you somehow think I singled you out then thats your issue. There are several guys on here that my last post is directed to, and they're all big boys and I'm sure everyone can handle it.
  #227  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TangoKilo View Post
Dang Chuck,

That deer has a tripod growing out of his left antler. No wonder he was so hard to kill

It's a small Russian Satellite. It fell on him and killed him. When the TSX couldn't. What are the odds?
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  #228  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Well, here is where the rubber meets the road. Your 98 big game animals are not going to win any volume competitions here. But your lack of use of the Barnes TSX just might. I have shot big game with Nosler Ballistic Tips, Winchester Fail Safes, Nosler Partitions, Nosler Partition Golds, Nosler Accubonds, Hornady Interlocks, Speer Grand Slams, Speer Hot Cores, Speer Boat Tails, Swift A-Frames, Swift Sciroccos, Barnes X, Barnes TSX, Barnes TTSX, Barnes XLC and I'm sure I'm missing some. Not to mention the volumes of game I've seen shot by hunting partners. I have shot, and seen shot, more game with Barnes bullets than any of them. Why? Because they work when things aren't perfect. Have I seen some things that make me go Hmmm when using them. I have. Two years ago I had a Mule Deer buck shot at 391 yds through both lungs run a LONG ways after being hit. People that post here witnessed it first hand, heck I even have it on video. I will contend that I darn well hit him to high, but that is another story. You also see the picture of the photos I took of the TSX that didn't expand at all. The deer hit with that bullet went all of three feet. But you know what, I am still using them and in fact bought a bunch more yesterday. I am under no illusion that any bullet works perfectly every time. In fact I think I just said the more game I shoot the less I know for sure.

You are doing it again Chuck. The Barnes Bullet investors/directors are rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. The buck running a long way after being hit is not good bullet performance. If you hit the deer to high then I question your marksmenship as good as bullet choice.(did not expand) Mentioning that the bullet is good for not so "perfect situation" also tells me that you rely on the bullet rather than your hunting skills, or lack there of. (Swiss Cheese Mule Buck) Chuck, read my lines or between them, 98 big game animals (all by myself) 95% one shot kills, used stalking skills, get into position, find a rest, cross hairs tight behind the front leg, then squeeze. One thing chuck, your honest. Barnes are not a good expansion bullet. Lots of people reading this thread will be turned off by the Barnes, the minority will defend it.
  #229  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:44 AM
noneck180 noneck180 is offline
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Chuck should use a M-16 so he can shoot his animals as many times as he can. I have seen everything and heard everything now, are you sure you didn't hit that Elk in the arse? My 204 Ruger shooting 35 gr Bergers at 80 yards, with two in the ribcage and one in the shoulder would have done more damage.PS it would have been dead on the first shot, because I have confidence that there would be nothing left of the lungs.

Last edited by noneck180; 04-10-2010 at 10:50 AM.
  #230  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:47 AM
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Found a great site for resizing. Just for the record I have no issues with any of the bullets we have discussed; but as far as the original topic goes, I prefer the Accubond over the Partition.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rsz_235122.jpg (128.7 KB, 31 views)
  #231  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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You are doing it again Chuck. The Barnes Bullet investors/directors are rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. The buck running a long way after being hit is not good bullet performance. If you hit the deer to high then I question your marksmenship as good as bullet choice.(did not expand) Mentioning that the bullet is good for not so "perfect situation" also tells me that you rely on the bullet rather than your hunting skills, or lack there of. (Swiss Cheese Mule Buck) Chuck, read my lines or between them, 98 big game animals (all by myself) 95% one shot kills, used stalking skills, get into position, find a rest, cross hairs tight behind the front leg, then squeeze. One thing chuck, your honest. Barnes are not a good expansion bullet. Lots of people reading this thread will be turned off by the Barnes, the minority will defend it.
Man you are grasping at straws. Now I will say that your 95% one shot kills out of 98 animals is telling. For good or bad I'm not sure.

Oh and does anyone else think that buck looks like Swiss Cheese?
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  #232  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:50 AM
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Chuck should use a M-16 so he can shoot his animals as many times as he can. I have seen everthing and heard everything now, are you sure you didn't hit that Elk in the arse?
Pretty sure there. I'm pretty sure animals don't bleed out of their face when hit in the arse. Some of us see it with our own eyes while others live through another's vision.

Have you shot any Elk? Just curious.

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Last edited by Pathfinder76; 04-10-2010 at 11:03 AM.
  #233  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:54 AM
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A picture of the damage those under expanding TSX's do.

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  #234  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:59 AM
noneck180 noneck180 is offline
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yup, and Moose,Buffalo,Black Bear, Whitetail, Mule Deer,Coyote,Fox,Crows,Magpies, Raccoon,Beaver,Muskrats,Gophers, Rabbits, Squirrels Geese, Ducks, Ruffed, Sharpies, Spruce Grouse, Hungarians,pigeons hopefully a Cougar, Caribou and Alaskan Yukon Moose.
Trapped Beaver,Ermine,Otter,Fox,Coyotes,Raccoons,Mink, Muskrats...

so yes I have been outside....As well Cows and Pigs,, I am sure I missed a few....and the odd wild cat

Last edited by noneck180; 04-10-2010 at 11:06 AM.
  #235  
Old 04-10-2010, 12:00 PM
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Holy smokes this thread took off.

Quote:
Barnes are not a good expansion bullet
Barnes average a little less expansion than bonded/cup and core bullets. Barnes does average more penetration though.

The thing I like about Barnes is that they penetrate. This means I can reliably shoot smaller rifles that recoil nicely such as .270's/.30-06 and similiar. Can also shoot the 7mm08's, .257's, 6.5mm's etc...

Anyhow here is a thread with some cool info on bullets and their performance in wet newspaper

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=162814

From my experience a lung/heart shot animal with pass through penetration can run upwards of 150-200 yards before piling up. Other times a lung/heart pass through will drop them on the spot.

The only two shots that I've known to drop animals 100% all the time as far as my experience goes is a shot that goes straight through the brisket of an animal looking straight at you. The bullet penetrates through the chest to some point near the rear. (I have yet to experience an animal run from this but I'm sure it will happen at some point.)

The other is when the bullet breaks the spine, be it above the chest, near the rear, above the shoulders or the spine in the neck... This shot is 100% reliable (in my experience) to drop the animal.

TSX/berger/partition/accubond...it doesn't matter. I shoot accubonds. Performance and price match what I'm looking for in a bullet.

Last edited by Jerry D; 04-10-2010 at 12:12 PM.
  #236  
Old 04-10-2010, 05:37 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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geez chuck...its so obvious now what your problem is. the bolt is on the wrong side of your gun its no wonder you are so confused about bullets with your "backward opinion".
nice buck.
  #237  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:35 PM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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Originally Posted by Rackmastr View Post
I think I'll decide when its enough thanks. I dont need someone to tell me.

I have seen enough ignorance in this thread that I can make a comment like I made in jest. If you somehow think I singled you out then thats your issue. There are several guys on here that my last post is directed to, and they're all big boys and I'm sure everyone can handle it.
wow You need to calm down.I did take it directed to me.I was the one that started the barnes is crap.But my oppology was not taken by many of you.
  #238  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Rackmastr Rackmastr is offline
 
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wow You need to calm down.I did take it directed to me.I was the one that started the barnes is crap.But my oppology was not taken by many of you.
I'm calm, and its quite obvious by looking through this thread that my posts are much more calm than yours. I just dont take nicely to being told what to do by someone else. Its not in my nature and its not who I am.

There are several people here making uneducated 'cracks' at Barnes bullets. My post was directed at them (you included). I will gladly defend them and make a joking post now and again about them. You wont see me out here knocking Berger or taking this to a personal level, nor will you see me trying to tell someone else what to do.

You're right. You made a comment and you took it back. We all accept that you took it back, but the fact remains that the topic had far from died, and yourself and others have continued to post about TSX bullets, with you going so far as posting a link to another forum about them and making cracks about them being 'FMJ' bullets in Alberta. To me, that seems like an open invitation to continue the debate....
  #239  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:15 PM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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I'm calm, and its quite obvious by looking through this thread that my posts are much more calm than yours. I just dont take nicely to being told what to do by someone else. Its not in my nature and its not who I am.

There are several people here making uneducated 'cracks' at Barnes bullets. My post was directed at them (you included). I will gladly defend them and make a joking post now and again about them. You wont see me out here knocking Berger or taking this to a personal level, nor will you see me trying to tell someone else what to do.

You're right. You made a comment and you took it back. We all accept that you took it back, but the fact remains that the topic had far from died, and yourself and others have continued to post about TSX bullets, with you going so far as posting a link to another forum about them and making cracks about them being 'FMJ' bullets in Alberta. To me, that seems like an open invitation to continue the debate....
Ok point taken Trev I was joking with that one.It was for tj&rich) That is all You know me I am laid back. But that damn red hair gets me it to trouble some times
  #240  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:16 PM
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Funny...

I thought this thread was about NOSLER ACCUBOND and PARTITION bullets?

Must be something wrong with me!
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