Tolerance's ?

[The cooter]

I have heard some grumbling's about Weatherby's having anywhere between 3-9 locking lugs on the bolt depending on model. What is this in aid of? And rumour has it the more locking lug's there are the harder it is to get each one to bear load? Sorry for all the question's i'm just need some weatherby owners advise on the subject. I'm in the market for a gun and don't really know a whole bunch about weatherby. I would guess that the machining would be high quality so why the tolerance issue? Thanks in advance

[leo]

Here are a few of the reasons Roy Weatherby chose this bolt design. They were alot easier and cheaper to manufacture than a conventional 2 lug bolt as you are simply removing minumal amounts of material from round stock. It can provide tremendous strength when the lugs are bearing full, however most gunsmiths will lap the lugs on a 2 lug bolt when accurizing. I'm sure a 9 lug has to be some fun. The good news is, most Weatherby's shoot well enough out of the box to satisfy most.

[209x50]

Why? Because old Roy was a salesman and just like the radiused shoulders the hype sells rifles. Doesn't do anything that 2 lug bolts or regular angled shoulders do as well, but it does sound attractive to some.

[elkhunter11]

Take a look at some actions made for target shooting,and see how many locking lugs they have.How many of the high end actions below have six or nine lugs.

http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html#Stolle

[Traps]

Originally Posted by The cooter

I have heard some grumbling's about Weatherby's having anywhere between 3-9 locking lugs on the bolt depending on model. What is this in aid of? And rumour has it the more locking lug's there are the harder it is to get each one to bear load? Sorry for all the question's i'm just need some weatherby owners advise on the subject. I'm in the market for a gun and don't really know a whole bunch about weatherby. I would guess that the machining would be high quality so why the tolerance issue? Thanks in advance

The more locking lugs are usually but not always a sign of action strength. Take for example 9 locking lugs on the mark 5, there are more lugs and they are smaller but they provide more shear area than with two or three larger lugs. As long as there is more total shear area, the action should be stronger. (but not always, but I won't get into that here) The more lugs there are the harder it is to get each one to bear load evenly. Relying on normal gun manufacturing machine tolerances to get total contact is hard to acheive, you may get the "one gun" that with the stack up of all mfg tolerances is in perfect alignment but more often its not. Cost in manufacturing goes up when tolerances are kept tighter. I don't know how machining is done on the weatherby action or the number of steps - if there were more steps involved then it would take tighter tolerances to achieve the same accuracy as a bolt action that is simpler and has fewer steps. If Weatherby rifles had nine locking lugs and the machine step was done in one step to get the correct pitch on the camming surfaces then it wouldn't matter in manufacturing two versus nine lugs but it would if you were to lapp the lug faces. With more it would be hard to ensure that each one is in contact, you could remove more on one than the other thereby defeating the purpose. Hope that answers your question.

[elkhunter11]

The more locking lugs are usually but not always a sign of action strength. Take for example 9 locking lugs on the mark 5, there are more lugs and they are smaller but they provide more shear area than with two or three larger lugs. As long as there is more total shear area, the action should be stronger. (but not always, but I won't get into that here)

The nine lugs on the Mark V are much,much smaller than those on many two and three lug designs.As such,they offer no more cross sectional shear area,and no more bearing area than many two or three lug designs.

[PoppaW]

Lugs are awesome. 9 lugs is a whole lot of awesome. Some of those custom actions are worth more than a weatherby rifle complete.

[378 Wthrby]

Hey Cooter,
You opened up a whole can of something with this question. There is one thing for certain on this forum, You either hate Weatherby's or love them...rarelyn have I seen anything between.
My question to you is, "Have you handled a weatherby right out of the box, you should and work the action a bit. Then put it down and grab a remington and then a CZ and do the same. I will guarantee you will notice a difference. That my friend is what you pay for.
Just my 2 cents

[The cooter]

Originally Posted by 378 Wthrby

Hey Cooter,
You opened up a whole can of something with this question. There is one thing for certain on this forum, You either hate Weatherby's or love them...rarelyn have I seen anything between.
My question to you is, "Have you handled a weatherby right out of the box, you should and work the action a bit. Then put it down and grab a remington and then a CZ and do the same. I will guarantee you will notice a difference. That my friend is what you pay for.
Just my 2 cents

Hey,Thanks 378 I am in the market for a 7mm. Weatherby was one of the choices I had one in my hands yesterday at the range was able to shoot it against the Tikka. Witch was the other choice I have one more to try Remington. Hope today I get a chance at it. Problem is they all fit me well.So it's gonna come down to research,Questions and accuracy. Cheers

[elkhunter11]

My question to you is, "Have you handled a weatherby right out of the box, you should and work the action a bit. Then put it down and grab a remington and then a CZ and do the same. I will guarantee you will notice a difference. That my friend is what you pay for.

Don't forget to do the same with a Cooper or a Sako 85.

[378 Wthrby]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Don't forget to do the same with a Cooper or a Sako 85.

I agree with you on the Coopers, very nice guns, ballistically not the same as a Weatherby... Doesn't Cooper support a president that wants stricter gun control laws????
Just my 2 cents.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 378 Wthrby

Hey Cooter,
You opened up a whole can of something with this question. There is one thing for certain on this forum, You either hate Weatherby's or love them...rarelyn have I seen anything between.
My question to you is, "Have you handled a weatherby right out of the box, you should and work the action a bit. Then put it down and grab a remington and then a CZ and do the same. I will guarantee you will notice a difference. That my friend is what you pay for.
Just my 2 cents

I've worked up loads and accurized several Weatherbys and Sakos, and the Sakos are a much better built and more accurate rifle than the Weatherbys, be it the 300's or the 338 lapua versus the 338/378 .
personally I would not walk across the street for a Weatherby even if it were given to me.
I've owned two and will not own another - but that is just my opinion, I know many people that like them....
Cat

[sullijr]

My rifle only has 1 locking lug and it works fine.Long live Ruger No.1's

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by sullijr

My rifle only has 1 locking lug and it works fine.Long live Ruger No.1's

Sweet

[elkhunter11]

Doesn't Cooper support a president that wants stricter gun control laws????

You might want to do a little research before posting such statements.The "former" owner of Cooper Firearms did give a "personal" campaign contribution to Obama,but neither Cooper Firearms or the current owner,are Obama supporters.

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I've worked up loads and accurized several Weatherbys and Sakos, and the Sakos are a much better built and more accurate rifle than the Weatherbys, be it the 300's or the 338 lapua versus the 338/378 .
personally I would not walk across the street for a Weatherby even if it were given to me.
I've owned two and will not own another - but that is just my opinion, I know many people that like them....
Cat

Maybe with a little more experience you could figure out these guns.

[378 Wthrby]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You might want to do a little research before posting such statements.The "former" owner of Cooper Firearms did give a "personal" campaign contribution to Obama,but neither Cooper Firearms or the current owner,are Obama supporters.

I have, and the former owner still gets proceeds from all Cooper sales. He is still a shareholder. Howw's that for homework.

Keep buying those Coopers.

[elkhunter11]

I have, and the former owner still gets proceeds from all Cooper sales. He is still a shareholder. Howw's that for homework.

You neglected to mention that Dan Cooper was forced to resign from the board of directors of Cooper Firearms because of his personal campaign contribution.Cooper Firearms does not support Obama,and they forced Cooper to resign to make sure that everyone knows this.

So one shareholder supported Obama,do you know if any shareholders from the companies that own Weatherby,Browing,Remington,Savage,or any of the other firearms manufacturers support Obama?You might be supporting Obama by purchasing a Weatherby.

In any case,what do the political views of a single shareholder of a corporation have to do with the quality of a firearm?

[378 Wthrby]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You neglected to mention that Dan Cooper was forced to resign from the board of directors of Cooper Firearms because of his personal campaign contribution.Cooper Firearms does not support Obama,and they forced Cooper to resign to make sure that everyone knows this.

So one shareholder supported Obama,do you know if any shareholders from the companies that own Weatherby,Browing,Remington,Savage,or any of the other firearms manufacturers support Obama?You might be supporting Obama by purchasing a Weatherby.

In any case,what do the political views of a single shareholder of a corporation have to do with the quality of a firearm?

They have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a firearm. I never said anything of a sort. I just stated a fact of the previous owner (Now a single shareholder that owns alot of shares)when he was still the President of the company that is all.
Not once did I say that Cooper doesn't make a great rifle.
As far as the other companies, now you are just spewing untruth's and conjecture to further your end. I am done here as well.

[elkhunter11]

As far as the other companies, now you are just spewing untruth's and conjecture to further your end.

Can you tell us with 100% certainty that not one single shareholder of the companies that own Weatherby,Remington,Browning,Savage or Winchester supports Obama?If not,you can't prove that my statement contained any untruths.

[378 Wthrby]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Can you tell us with 100% certainty that not one single shareholder of the companies that own Weatherby,Remington,Browning,Savage or Winchester supports Obama?If not,you can't prove that my statement contained any untruths.

Everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. Dan Cooper was proven.

[elkhunter11]

Everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. Dan Cooper was proven.

Do you really believe that? My statements on the topic are yet to be proven untruths,yet you accuse me of lying(the definition of lying is afterall, telling untruths).

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by PoppaW

Maybe with a little more experience you could figure out these guns.

Actually do have a little experience with fire arms gunsmithing and accurizing, likely not as much as some . however....
Cat

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Actually do have a little experience with fire arms gunsmithing and accurizing, likely not as much as some . however....
Cat

Just havin some fun

[Traps]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The nine lugs on the Mark V are much,much smaller than those on many two and three lug designs.As such,they offer no more cross sectional shear area,and no more bearing area than many two or three lug designs.

Perhaps the sum of nine parts is larger than the sum of two or three parts, why else would you go to a nine lug design when you step up the bolt face to magnum diameter like in the 378. It means more thrust onto the bolt, if you can answer this with any degree of certainty then you may have the right answer.

[elkhunter11]

Perhaps the sum of nine parts is larger than the sum of two or three parts, why else would you go to a nine lug design when you step up the bolt face to magnum diameter like in the 378. It means more thrust onto the bolt, if you can answer this with any degree of certainty then you may have the right answer.

Perhaps the answer is as 209x50 posted:

Why? Because old Roy was a salesman and just like the radiused shoulders the hype sells rifles. Doesn't do anything that 2 lug bolts or regular angled shoulders do as well, but it does sound attractive to some.

Considering that I have seen 50BMG rifles with no more than three lugs,I would think that if nine lugs aren't required for that large a bolt face,they certainly aren't required for smaller bolt faces.

[noneck180]

Its for bolt throw nothing more..

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by PoppaW

Just havin some fun

DANG!
I fall for that stuff EVERY TIME, don't I?
Cat

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by 378 Wthrby

I agree with you on the Coopers, very nice guns, ballistically not the same as a Weatherby... Doesn't Cooper support a president that wants stricter gun control laws????
Just my 2 cents.

I like weatherby's more than cooper's due to how they shoulder with the monte carlo stock,weatherby rifles have better velocitys and the weatherby rifles are better looking,however the cooper rifles are more accurate than weatherbys.We got one cooper in the safe and A hand full of weatherbys and at the range the cooper always wins for accuracy,but not velocity because they dont make magnum cartridges yet.

Either way the weatherby is the Killer when it comes to Whitetail Season

[flint]

Originally Posted by The cooter

I have heard some grumbling's about Weatherby's having anywhere between 3-9 locking lugs on the bolt depending on model. What is this in aid of? And rumour has it the more locking lug's there are the harder it is to get each one to bear load? Sorry for all the question's i'm just need some weatherby owners advise on the subject. I'm in the market for a gun and don't really know a whole bunch about weatherby. I would guess that the machining would be high quality so why the tolerance issue? Thanks in advance

Well there is only one Model, and that is the Mark V. There are 9 lugs on all Model V's that are chambered for all magnum cartridges, except for the 240 Wby. The 240 Wby and all other standard cartridges in the Model V have 6 lugs. If your going to purchase a 7mm Weaherby Magnum, I suggest not to get it in the Vanguard, it only comes in a 24 inch barrel, therefore; you will not receive top volicity. Furtherfore, the Vanguard is not of the superior quality as the Mark V. If money is an issue, purchase a Remington Sendero in a 7mm Remington Magnum.